Oil and Water (Marriage Coming to an End)

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Oil and Water (Marriage Coming to an End)

Postby a_friend » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:16 am

my marriage seems to be coming to an end. the wierd thing is that i am completely confident that i am doing exactly what i need to be doing. i am saying exactly what i want to say, i am listening completely and without judgment. i am not reacting to her pain body (which was extremely difficult for me in the past). i am not engaging in conflict, even when the opportunity presents itself. I know that i love and accept my wife completely. I do not feel the addictive love/hate that i felt for a while. but it seems that the greater sense of peace, love, and trust that i feel, the more "distant" my wife has become. she now perceives nearly every action i take and word that i say as some sort of attack. and i do not resist her perception. I could be totally wrong here, but i almost believe that i could actually keep us "together" by choosing to fight with her, and by pretending to be upset and angry, and by playing games and creating drama. But i know it would be completely dishonest and manipulative and i would be completely selling out. Not to mention the fact that i really can't see myself maintaining that way of life for very long, even if i wanted to. I am at peace with whatever happens between us because I am completely at peace with how i feel and what i do.

eckhart says something like when only one partner is Present, the two partners will separate like oil and water. Is that what is happening here? am i just being an aloof asshole? it honestly does not feel that way at all. every ounce of my being cares for her and wants the best for her. Has anybody else experienced anything like this? Is it possible to be Present and to remain in a relationship?

with love,
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Postby heidi » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:21 pm

Hi friend - Yes it is possible to stay in a relationship and be present. For me, there has come an acceptance - for better or for worse - of my husband just as he is. Remove duality and there you are. :) My favorite Rumi quote in these circumstances: Outside the ideas of rightdoing and wrongdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.

I notice certain things or behaviors of others actually can pull energy away from me, bring me down, so to speak, and that is when I remove myself - but now only briefly until the energy shifts. (I've been married 4 times, so I guess I'm an expert, ha ha)

People do grow apart, and that may be what's happened with you. Often one partner doesn't like it when the other one grows. Ind of like when an alcoholic stops drinking and the other partner has become co-dependent, depends upon the other guy's illness.

I have a sister who is energetically "bad" for me. Because she's my sister and I love her, I continue our relationship, though each encounter brings me new understanding as to what I will or won't tolerate. Healthy boundries aren't about judgement or duality, I think they are about a knowing where we find and keep our true selves, and a making of good choices. Some resonate with that, some are unable or even consciously or un- seek to destroy that foundation for whatever reason, usually jealousy.

I think this topic is going to take on many sets of wings and fly all over the place because there are so many facets to intimate relationships and pain body relationships. If you truly are operating from a place devoid of judgement, then the relationship has a chance. But it does take two :)

Thanks so much for starting this topic.
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Postby a_friend » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:05 pm

hehehe, now that i've read my post, i think i should have signed it something like "seeking validation" or something like that, hehehe. honestly, everyone that knows me knows i'm always open to advice and suggestions. If somebody thinks i'm just viewing this whole situation upside-down, then i'd love to hear that, seriously :)

and thank you for this excellent response, heidi! Your acoholic/co-dependent analogy was perfect, and its very possible that that is exactly what happened here.

I feel like i am accepting my wife exactly as she is. If I make any judgements of her, its that 1) she is absolutely wonderful and 2) she is both physically and emotionally ill. I do not judge her illness as a "bad" thing so much, as i know that is a "path" just like wellness is. Who knows? Maybe she is just one moment away from perfect peace and clarity. I can (now) see a deeper good underneath all the stuff that most people avoid like the plague.

I am completely happy to stay married to her and i am completely at peace (though i won't say "happy") if our marriage dissolves. However, my wife seems to go back and forth between thinking i am either absolutely evil and must be avoided at all costs OR i am just too good for her and she will bring nothing but pain into my life and i therefore must be avoided at all costs. The common message here being that she seems to want absolutely nothing to do with me at this point. And i'm ok with that too. Maybe this relationship was some kind of stepping stone to get her where she is going next?? Or maybe there's no meaning in it whatsoever.

Unfortunately (or fortunately?), this is my second marriage (and i'm only 28!) But I think maybe i've finally figured out how to be truly loving and accepting (and not resistant/reactive), and because of that i feel a peace and strength in spite of the external circumstances. I know this is probably just my ego talking, but i have to admit that i really hope that all this is not just too little, too late. And that's ok if it is, but it sure would be "nice" for this to work out.

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Postby summer » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:50 pm

I am single now, so I don't have much to add about husband/wife relationships. And quite honestly I like it this way. My inner growth has been so intense that I feel an intimate relationship would be too much of a distraction right now.

And still I have very meaningful relationships with my children and other friends. Since I have been practicing eckhart's teachings, all of my co-dependent relationships have fallen by the wayside. Which caused quite a lot of ruckus, since my mother and stepfather and all of his family belong in this group. It has been very challenging, but when I ask my inner voice for guidance I am always encouraged that I am listening to my heart. All of my old conditioning says that I am being very selfish and unloving. And yet I am experiencing a whole new dimension to love now.
Healthy relationships encourage me to be myself. That change and growth are welcomed. When we take care of our own needs, we no longer ask others to meet our needs. And we no longer feel that we must satisfy other people's needs

There is a lot of space in healthy relationships. Kind of like Rumi's field :)
True love is full of freedom and joy. It is very exciting
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Postby a_friend » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:54 pm

thank you, summer! that was articulated beautifully. I feel that i fully agree and understand where you are coming from.
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Postby barbarasher » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:36 am

Hello all!

I found a lot in common with all of you in this last thread.

I am married to my third husband (thirteen years wince we are married). I found that the Eckhart and Byron stuff and all of this journey I am taking has helped enormously because like Heidi said, It helped me live

… an acceptance - for better or for worse - of my husband just as he is.


Heidi I also loved what you said:

My favorite Rumi quote in these circumstances: Outside the ideas of rightdoing and wrongdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.


Less judgment and more accepting the moments without the internal "No".

He is not a big talker, he is a be-er. I am more of a talker and very very much a do-er. He is very happy to be in the same space as me and at the end of a long weekend where we didn't do much except hang out together, not even talking much, he will tell me how much he loves me. But I would need him to talk to me, or listen a lot and do stuff with me, walking, ball games, dancing or something in order to feel that.

Also when he doesn't talk when we are together, I start/started feeling stressed. My mind saying, "OH! We are just like those couple that have nothing to say to each other."

All this material has helped me "be".

A-friend,

Divorce is in itself not a good thing. But in many cases it is a wonderful new beginning. My two divorces were absolutely necessary and brought on new beginnings. My second husband was depressed and lay mostly stationary for over a year during our marriage (and probably a lot before, but I don't know that). I once had a client over for a meeting in the living room, and there he was on the couch the whole time facing the wall and not moving, a month later the same client came and he was in the same position not moving. I thought the client was going to ask me if it was a dead body.

Heidi, what you said about your sister is what I am going through with my parents. They love me very much, but are very preachy and assured that they know everything and that everything is black and white, and that once they have spoken "the word", it must be followed by me. All this while I am paying their rent and telephone bills for years. I love them, but must withdraw a bit and put some limits about how they speak to me in order not get sucked in to their whirlpool of negativity and how they see the world as "bad".

We seemed to have taken more of a personal note and less esoteric. I like it. It is real.

I believe that while we are all on our search for the optimal spiritual state of being we are all living real lives and need advice, instruction and support as to how to implement it in our every day experiences.
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Postby Clare » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:12 pm

I got married last August, after thirteen years of living together, and just as I went into a whole new phase of spiritual development, so this thread interests me.

I have no fixed opinions on it. I sometimes observe that there is a meme (a commonly held thought pattern) that spiritual development = marriage break-up, and/or aloneness. I'm not sure which came first, the meme or the experiences. Either way, the evidence supports this theory: a lot of people do separate from their marriage or long term partners when they go through a raising of their consciousness. I am wondering if that is more due to the race memory of how spiritual paths were taken alone, and often involved celibacy; maybe it's a hybrid of that. I'd say sometimes it's necessary and sometimes it's not.

However, I am increasiingly convinced that we are now finally into a phase where our spiritual growth makes our lives easier, not harder. I know that sounds almost comical, because if course spiritual growth should be by its very nature a releasing of struggle and pain; however, I have observed also that up to now people have still kept it firmly in the realm of the ego, by making it some kind of arduous process where everything has to leave a person and they have to suffer to get the reward at the end - these ubiquitous stories of a person's struggle through the 'dark night' to become 'enlightened' at the end.

In my own marraige the thing that has saved it and me has been two of the things already mentioned: a loving of my husband just as he is, plus making healthy choices for myself. And thereis a third thing that actually took it into something that made it not just about aceptance, but also a rich deep appreciation, anthis was honouring the ways he finds the sacred within himself, even if it is not my way.

My husband is an athlete/businessman. I am an expressionist (my new termnology! And nope, I don't mean the early 1900's artisitic movement) and healer. We are chalk and cheese, or 'oil and water', if you will. One day I questioned my husband on why he loved cycling so much, and how I had noticed that after cycling his mood improves considerably - why was that? He described this feeling he gets of it being just him and the mountain. All there is to do is focus on breathing, heartbeat, cadence, mountain - that's it. Everything else leaves him. How when he gets to the summit, or is flying down afterward, it's so....so....beautiful. He got quite wistful, and said he forgets everything else. "Oh," I say, "So, what you are saying is, you are using the cycling as a meditation. It makes you present. It's your spiritual practice" And he looks at me with this look. :)

We're never going to share the same pathway, even though we are married, but in our own sacred ways, weare going in the same direction. And I think what's important when we are developing spiritually is not just to 'be spiritual' whilst thinking the other person we love hasn't got there somehow, but instead to notice and honour the sacred within them and how they ARE getting there, just in a different way.

Huna teaches us that what we focus on grows, so, focussing on the sacred within eachother helps to nurture spiritual growth far more than being 'spiritually advanced' ourselves and waiting for the other to catch up, or accepting they never will and being okay about that.

Knowing my husband, he's going to get to the summit far quicker than I will. He's got a great technique! :lol:
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Postby heidi » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:24 pm

Namaste, Clare :) :) :)
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Postby barbarasher » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:51 am

Hi Clare!

I immediately connected with this post when I read it just after you posted it. I intuitively wanted to let it settle before answering.

Yes, I too have recently started going through a raising in consciousness. I find it has greatly benefited my relationship with my husband (my third, we have been married 13 years) and my internal feelings about him, since I stopped asking myself the questions "Is he the one?". Initially, though it had brought this question to the forefront. I am glad to have put it to rest.


loving of my husband just as he is:


I have found a greater peace with accepting him as he is, and not taking every behavior of his personally and analyzing the meaning of it. He and I don't share many things, such as the search for consciousness, but he respects me (only making a little bit of fun of it when he gets mad) and he sees that it has benefited him and me.

He is. We love each other, we have built a nice life together. He has a life force and a physical being that is attractive to me.



not just about acceptance, but also a rich deep appreciation, and this was honoring the ways he finds the sacred within himself, even if it is not my way


Acceptance is the first step. Yes, and the beauty comes in the appreciation. And the change in me is that it is even if it is not my way.



We are chalk and cheese, or 'oil and water',


We are too, in different ways than you two. But the whole issue is so similar. And the benefits available from the PON material so relevant here.



We're never going to share the same pathway, even though we are married, but in our own sacred ways, weare going in the same direction.


Right, so I am finding things we do like to do together (besides the obvious). Together we are going for our second power walk. I love hiking and walking long distances. He doesn't. But we are doing this for exercise and it is only 45 minutes. He leads and sets the pace (real fast). I jog a little to keep up. It's all good. He is coming with me once a week to Arthur Murray for private couple dance lessons, meaning just us two and a teacher. We have gone 4 times already. It is quite a miracle.

focus on grows, so, focusing on the sacred within each other helps to nurture spiritual growth far more than being 'spiritually advanced' ourselves and waiting for the other to catch up, or accepting they never will and being okay about that.


Yeah!
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Postby heidi » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:04 pm

Well, as with you two, Clare and Barbara, I too have had big lessons on oneness from my spouse. I have always been a liberal, a peace activist, a social activist, environmentalist - yep that's my story :). My husband (we're together now for over 17 years) suddenly became a Republican last year a few months before the election, when before we'd always agreed on poltical matters. In earlier years, this would not have been unacceptable to me - well, it still is not and we have fabulous discussions, but the unconditional love and understanding of oneness has developed enough for me to accept this. It was rough going around election time, but it was a process so valuable to me.

Also, my daughter is a captain in the army and headed for Iraq in November. She was in Afghanistan when US attacked Iraq, which is why I created peacethings. The power of now is extremely valuable to me, keeping present with all of this - current events, ha ha. So, as I have quoted before, and I'll do it again, as peace is where we are all one:
Outside the idea of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. (Rumi)

Hanging out in the field of presence,
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Postby Clare » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:00 am

barbarasher wrote:Hi Clare!


Yes, I too have recently started going through a raising in consciousness. I find it has greatly benefited my relationship with my husband (my third, we have been married 13 years) and my internal feelings about him, since I stopped asking myself the questions "Is he the one?".


It's great to read these posts. What I observe to be changing is an increase in people claiming their spiritual development enhances, not detracts, from their personal relationships; which I feel is exactly what it should be, not the other way around. Perhaps we as a spiritual race have finally beginning to release that particular ego struggle. Hurrah!

And yep, I too have been prone to ponder if this one was 'the one', Barbara. I mean, there was no symphony playing in the background when we were together, and surely my 'soul mate', would share everything with me? BUt then as I developed, I understood that there is no 'the One', other than 'The One' we all share within. The decider for me was the understanding that he had never tried to take me away from the 'One Within' me, and that we had gone though all sorts of changes, but one thing that remained was our love for eachother. That was it.

I find in my own life, often once I release judgement and expectation, the problem is no longer there. However, that's not to say that I haven't learned the balance (though it took me a while) of not taking complete responsibility for every problem that arose with people in my life. There are people who are, as Heidi mentioned, energetically bad for us, and I think it's good to have discernment about that. This can happen in marriages too; and so I think it's also important to say that sometimes a marriage and other relationships can be a place where you have to constantly defend and recover from energy attack, and if in that position, then it's best to lovingly take oneself out of that situation. That's not failure to love, or to accept, or a judgement, it's just a healthy choice for oneself.

Fascinating about your husband deciding to be a Republican, Heidi :o That must have been tough for you at that time. I do sometimes wonder about what kind of amazingly intricate agreement you came to before you incarnated on this planet. You've taken some big challenges! Wow.

Thanks to all for this thread, and for this forum. :D
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