''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

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rontant
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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by rontant » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:48 am

unbornawakened wrote: Why make a problem out of the void ?
It is a problem when you see it as a problem.

Thoughts and feelings come and go just like waves. Sometime they can be scary, weird, suicidal, painful, or anything you can think of. Everyone of us can experience these thoughts and feelings too but the difference is that not everyone make any song and dance about them. Not everyone sees these thoughts/feelings as big deals. They simply shrugh them off, ignore them.. instead of making any drum rolls everytime they come, instead of reserving a VIP room inside the head...

So I see Midnight is writing a blog dedicated to "losing himself". Now he's going to see a doctor... I wonder why. I hope he's joking.

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Midnight
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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Midnight » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:58 pm

You think this is a fucking joke?

jesus... Having no emotions... Some joke huh? :)

your so deluded

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Sighclone » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:41 pm

Suffering comes in many forms, sometimes having egoic overlay such as "no one could possibly help me with my problem, it is so huge." Having read his blog, and noting his age (20 years old -- ET says the ego is huge at this time in life), it strikes me as possible that there is some element of ego involved in this suffering, despite the stated inability to feel, think or remember much (suresly that could be scary and frustrating.) Also, there is a stage in self-realization reported by many where fear and anguish rise, as the ego is bumped out of the driver's seat. I experienced a bit of this and scrambled around, landing in this forum four years ago. So I have some sympathy with Midnight. The ego does take many forms including "Me, the owner of the biggest problem in the universe."

But it is suffering nonetheless, and not funny. I think that rontant's hope that it was a joke is not a hope which will be fulfilled. Good luck to midnight!!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Midnight
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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Midnight » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:06 pm

I appreciate the words. As for whether its ego, i have many doubts.

Spirituality centres around non attachment. I feel detached from my body and mind which is a horrific feeling, like living in a nightmare. I often think im going mad.

So what tolle is teaching effectively has major repurcussions which i certainly didnt bargain for. Feeling out of body and mind is NOT NORMAL no matter how many gurus or hippies tell you otherwise.

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Ralph » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:40 pm

Midnight wrote:
It just FEELS like I don't exist anymore, its such an odd feeling and difficult to describe, but it just feels like I'm not here at all.
This "I" that feels like I don't exit anymore must also go. This odd feeling that you are speaking about is what is making you feel empty and miserable. Who is identifying with this feeling, who is feeling this feeling, ... is it not the same false "I" ? The good news is that you are not that. Your self enquiry is not complete. Teachers like Tolle and Mooji that you follow will point the way, ... do they look like they are delusional to you, I say not.

You have one last obstacle to cross over and that is the you that you are still attached to. Your true nature lies just beyond that but you can't take you to see that. This seeing that I am speaking of is always there , always was and always will be.

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Ralph » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:56 pm

the key master wrote:
Nobody who has posted almost 900 times, a great many of them full of wisdom, will get banned by me for a single undefended sentence. Could you explain this comment, Jason?

Andy
Not without implying kiki might be delusional, which I know is frowned upon in this establishment. I really wasn’t trying to open a substantive discussion on the merits of his post any further than I already had. I do remember not multivibrating with it, probably because of its fluffy nature and the mind splitting mechanism used to express it.

At the end of the day, I love you guys. I’d take a bullet for either one of you. The path of least resistance for me, for my mind, when it comes to talk on enlightenment, seems to be that of an egomaniacal asshole. My brain’s been lighting up like a Christmas tree, and I seem to have lost the desire to consciously censor myself. Is it possible that would have changed in future? Possible, but based on current trends, not likely.

After the intention thread got locked, which is probably a good thing that it was, I asked myself if I still want to write on the forum. I mean, every time I answer a question or write about something, its an opportunity to develop my own clarity and understanding. Do I really want to give that up? And some peeps apparently enjoy my rambles from time to time. Soon thereafter, I read your and nightowl’s stroking of kiki’s already massive ego, and the decision was made to intentionally get baned. I singled him out, wrote a post which I was sure would do the deed, which by the way I actually thought was hilarious(I think this is the whole issue).

I appreciate you looking out andy, and giving me an opportunity to express my thoughts and feelings. You're a good friend 4sho. I will definitely miss you guys. I’ve expressed my gratitude to you guys and this forum so many times that to do so again seems meaningless, and yet here I am. I will say I think its disgraceful that enigma was banned, and that whoever was behind that movement take a serious look at their own bullshit. I lost quite a bit of respect for this forum after that, in the same way I’m sure some of you have lost respect for me. But hey, shit happens. We’re doin the best we can with what we got, some of us more consciously than others. I don’t see anything else going on.

Peace to Andy, and the Tolle forum.
Very well said, keymaster ! ....we need people like you (brutal Honesty) if there is any hope to wake up !

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by nightowl » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:18 pm

Midnight wrote:I appreciate the words. As for whether its ego, i have many doubts.

Spirituality centres around non attachment. I feel detached from my body and mind which is a horrific feeling, like living in a nightmare. I often think im going mad.

So what tolle is teaching effectively has major repurcussions which i certainly didnt bargain for. Feeling out of body and mind is NOT NORMAL no matter how many gurus or hippies tell you otherwise.
Midnight I hope you are still reading this thread. Does this quote resonate with you?

"All 'kill the ego/no-self' models are self-hate disguised as spiritual salvation. They are anti-life and no less insidious a virus than the concept of 'sin'. Loving yourself to death is a fabulous alternative to these ancient, rusty thumbscrews." - Benjamin Smythe

It's not about no self - it's about all there is is self. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give this guy a look. He's a young, extremely vibrant presence who is not afraid to change things up. http://www.youtube.com/benjaminsmythe#p/u

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far_eastofwest
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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by far_eastofwest » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:01 pm

Midnight wrote:You think this is a fucking joke?

jesus... Having no emotions... Some joke huh? :)

your so deluded
midnight, you still have anger..... and i've seen it in other posts (someone's post about india got you going a bit).
really its good to talk about the Problem
but there is a time to take focus off the problems and start looking at solutions
and there is the thing of Expectation vs Outcome
if you have a think of what you Expected when you read the book and what the Outcome was.... you may find there is a big discrepancy.
When people don't have the skills to deal with outcomes that a wildly different than expectation it can create fear and anger and even shame.
It pays to remember, as long as you feel a victim or have no control over the situation you will do nothing to 'fix' it. How can you if its someone/something elses fault?

Kid playing up.... "he's just a difficult child, stubborn and willful"..... so why do anything? Maybe punish the child for causing such problems in your life? Or talk about the problem child.

Kid playing up..... "my parenting has been a bit slack lately with all the christmas parties and my new job and i haven't kept a bed time routine up and been so busy i haven't kept the star charts going".

The first statement is victim.... can't do anything about a difficult child, second is taking responsibility and looking at yourself and what you CAN do. Not surprising the second statement leads to positve action.... get the star chart/reward system going and take the 15 minutes in the evening to pull rank and get kiddie off to bed and settled by 8pm. Little johnny the 'willful child' is more likely the result of overtiredness, no incentive to do well and no recognition of good behaviours. Little johnny was very near becoming the Scapegoat of the family..... starting small and ending up becoming the recipitant of blame for ALL problems.

A counsellor or therapist would be helpful to you midnight.

Many many many people describe how you feel and have similar experience, but not from 'self enquiry' but other factors, its pretty much a description of Depression.... you may feel the self enquire caused how you are feeling but consider that it may have just been a trigger. Other people the trigger can be losing a job, a gf, having a baby.

cheers and good luck
There is nothing harder to find than a black cat in a dark room
Especially when there is no cat....

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by SirNikalot » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:52 am

Midnight, in all of your threads it looks like you've been forced fed the same message repeatedly telling you that your not "doing it properly" and "to just keep at it", but its like, at what cost? My dad used to have eggs fed to him everyday, and he never liked them. His step-father would just repeatedly feed him eggs hoping that he would someday like it. He never did. Never ate another egg again for maybe 30-40 years. It wasn't until recently that we fried up some eggs, served it to him on a plate, and to his surprise, he said it wasn't that bad at all. My point being, that the same message being repeatedly battered into your brain probably isn't going to make you start to appreciate it all of a sudden.

There are many different messages out there. The psycho-therapeutic approach being one of them. There's a guy named Robert Master's who I've found helpful. He uses a psycho-therapeutic approach, and his basic message pretty much is to just feel your pain. Don't try to overcome it by spiritual means, side-step it, or repress it. Just feel out the fear, terror, loneliness, or sadness. I'll admit, the first time I heard the guy I thought to myself "what a f*&$ing pussy. I don't want to hear about feelings and that kind of shit! This is totally gay!" But after a considerable amount of suffering and realizing that I was just suppressing my emotions I realized that I needed to take a different approach, and that I did. And so far, I can honestly say that I haven't felt as open, honest, resilient, and in touch with my humanity as I have for many many many years.

So here's a link to an interview with another fellow non-dualer, Scott Kiloby, interviewing the guy I was talking about, Robert Masters http://kiloby.com/uploads/RobertMasters20110.mp3


As for KeyMaster. I know I don't really openly post on here too much, but I can honestly say that when ever I see you involved in a thread, I always open it and read it to see what you have to say. And I agree with you KM, I feel that Enigma was kind of ganged up on and it was really unfortunate to see him go like that. Sure he was at times very unyielding and somewhat stubborn, but it was clear that some of the more prominent members didn't want to take responsibility for some of the feelings he elicited within them. So I guess they figured it was best to just get rid of him, even though I still don't agree with it.

I don't really come here expecting to become enlightened or awake(even that word has become cliche these days). I really just come here to communicate with people who are open-minded, (maybe)intelligent, non-judgmental, and willing to offer guidance. And that's something that I feel is hard to come by, which is why I value this forum so much.

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by dijmart » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:48 pm

SirNikalot wrote: There's a guy named Robert Master's who I've found helpful. He uses a psycho-therapeutic approach, and his basic message pretty much is to just feel your pain. Don't try to overcome it by spiritual means, side-step it, or repress it.
I started a new thread called "Spiritual Bypassing" with one of his videos if anyone's interested.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:00 am

Sirnik, that was a really lovely post - it's posts like that that bring me in here, humanity realising 'self' and our and others' programming is only part of it.

I too miss Enigma, his quick mind and probing questions would elicit re-action. I took to privately messaging him to say -... help me understand what this means from your pov, and to his credit, he did. On another forum there were a few very intelligent, quick witted folk like him and the bristles would come out there too. I asked for a dancing smiley in an effort to lighten some of it up a little.. I'd wander into the thick of it and ask one or the other if they'd like to 'dance' with me for awhile, or teach me this step, or change the tempo and do this dance for a minute. When the tempo changed, or someone stepped on anothers' toes it did lighten it up - and some of us got so cool with it we could do 'dips' and flourishes.
I explained this to Enigma and asked him to dance me through some of it, particularly his nuance on 'free will', it was him that allowed me to 'get it' in the topic started by Salem, by 'dancing' the different steps. I'm sure I tested his patience, but like most things like that, it was worth it.

We all communicate differently, finding common ground is always the beginning - neutral territory, like a dance floor scenario, also keeps the left brain busy and allows the right brain to be more free flowing and creative.

... and I've just realised, some of the 'reprogramming' type treatments like EFT or EMDR use this little tool - in EFT tapping while working through issues, EMDR refocussing part of your brain in a safe environment while 'perusing from a time/place' distanced pov more challenging experiences.

( I did wonder where this was flowing in terms of the thread)
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Midnight » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:29 am

Thanks SirNik, Iappreciate the response.

Here's the thing however, the pain which is there can't seem to be brought 'out' per say. Before I entered this state I would get quite emotional over things. I could feel my misery potently and when what I considered happiness or confidence would appear I would also feel these things very powerfully.

These days I'm stuck in a constant emotional numbness. I like to say it's numbness beyond the concept of numbness because it's so numb it doesn't even really feel as if I'm writing this message - logically I know I am, and to anyone who could see me doing it it would be clear to them I was writing it - but it's almost as if in my experience it feels like nothings really happening.

The only time I can get some kind of feeling out is when I sit and attempt to feel the emotion. As this happens (this is going to sound very odd and unhealthy), I begin to feel (normally) a massive tension come over the body. if I stay with it it's like its not even an emotion anymore, it feels like a mix of emotions with a physical sensation. It gets incredibly uncomfortable and sometimes I can 'hear' screaming thoughts in the back of my mind.

More tightness follows these raging screams but even after all this, the numbness prevails...

I can't really remember what it feels like to feel emotions in the regular sense, that's tragic I think....

Not finding a specific me in inquiry has fucked up my regular emotions, memory, sense of self, thought process, perception of the world and others around me, social ability, ambition and much more. The frustrating thing is tha I'm normally met with a response that echos how I got here in the first place such as - "Who is the 'me' that is upset about this?"

Fuck those questions...

Anyway, I'm going to see the doctor again soon and try and get myself a CT scan to check I haven't got something wrong with my brain. If this is awakening then trust me, none of you want anything to do with it.

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Ralph » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:56 am

Midnight wrote:Fuck those questions...
I just read your blog as well and I feel that you should take a long break from teachers like Eckhart Tolle and Mooji and try to fit back into society .

.... and then , who knows, it might draw you back.... or maybe not ... in either case , it is OK.

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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by snowheight » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:52 pm

Ralph wrote:
Midnight wrote:Fuck those questions...
I just read your blog as well and I feel that you should take a long break from teachers like Eckhart Tolle and Mooji and try to fit back into society .

.... and then , who knows, it might draw you back.... or maybe not ... in either case , it is OK.
Ralph ... how to unring a bell?

Midnight, would you consider desperation to be an emotion?
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

Ralph
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Re: ''voice-voices in our heads''.....???

Post by Ralph » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:57 pm

snowheight wrote:Ralph ... how to unring a bell?
There are many bells ringing, you do not necessarily need to follow any specific one.

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