Schizophrenia

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: Schizophrenia

Postby rideforever » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:45 am

ashley72 wrote:..

You know how to whistle don't ya, just put your ... OK !!! -- ENOUGH MOVIE QUOTES

Well look man I have one word for you ... cucumber ... no not that one ... oh yeah ... it's INTROSPECT !
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby Onceler » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:54 am

Thank you! First time I've been called a shredded salad and I'm cooking lentils tonight, so right on target, what can I say.

My only request is that you back up your words with pragmatism and don't withdrawal into your spiritual wicker tower and your streams of consciousness.

Get out and meet some real people with mental illness. Really talk to them and try to help them as best you can

Fly, fly into the yawning mouth of pragmatism with its gaping teeth of modalities and meds.

ACCEPT completely with your eyeballs burning and your teeth gritting with AWARENESS and PRESENCE the awful truth that you can't control the government, SCIENCE, cats or what I put into my mouth!!!!!
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby rideforever » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:18 am

I tell you one thing, when I am dying I hope to be outside ... lying on my back looking at the clouds and in nature. Where I belong. Where I return to.

Then it's all good. I couldn't bare it if it was a room full of doctors.

Though being England, it would probably be raining.

You see ... it's all good in the jungle. It's only when the monolith of the medical establishment rises out of the swamp, that things start to feel wrong. Then the judgement party begins, and the guilt, and the endless helping of the 'poor' and 'needy'. The needy people and the helpers.

5 minutes ago everything was just fine.

You think people want help ? ... They want you to f*** off.

They weren't crazy until you labelled them crazy. And made them crazy with all the BS. And now, someone wants to help ?

Who is crazy ? Let them all out, I would say. Who is anyone to say anyone else's life is not right ?

One day I will die. Let me die. I don't any 'help'. You try to 'help' me and you're going first.

I reach for god whilst I breathe. That's all.

And this is my mood :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTOz5fcdwU
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby Onceler » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:28 am

Okay. I think I know where you're coming from and I have no need try to alter that trajectory. Keep the fire in your belly.

Have fun in the rain, brother, something we can agree on....because its real.....
Last edited by Onceler on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby Rubber Soul » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:51 am

I can't deny the delusions when they enter my mind - or the horrible feeling associated with them.
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby treasuretheday » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:49 am

Is this the script of a Tennessee Williams play?

One of his lesser known works, for sure.
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby Onceler » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:25 am

treasuretheday wrote:Is this the script of a Tennessee Williams play?

One of his lesser known works, for sure.


I know, right? One or both of us must be drinking.... :wink:
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby Onceler » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:58 am

Maybe Ride and I should get together and write a dramatic work about a spiritual odd couple who bicker and dither in the rain....
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby Rubber Soul » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:37 am

I suppose you're purposely derailing the thread
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby treasuretheday » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:46 am

Onceler wrote:Maybe Ride and I should get together and write a dramatic work about a spiritual odd couple who bicker and dither in the rain....
Sounds like a winner!
Onceler wrote:One or both of us must be drinking....
Cheers!

Rubber Soul, it's not a derailing, just a little detour. Enjoy a little levity this evening. The topic will get back on track.
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby Onceler » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:21 pm

Rubber Soul wrote:I suppose you're purposely derailing the thread


No, my apologies, Rubbersoul. It was immature of me to spar like that with Ride. I know that your question and pain are sincere. I believe I did give my thoughts, however, and I think it is a good topic. It bothers me that there are those that seem to believe that spiritual/magical thinking will alleviate any problem. I think that we all suffer, some more than others, and that we all cobble together a way of managing our life through whatever means are at hand, spiritual, psychological, medical. I have found tremendous relief for severe anxiety through John Sherman's looking technique.
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby rideforever » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:16 pm

To my view, doing regular meditation might produce very good results for schizophrenics. Of course, I am not certified by any state to make any opinion.

Mindfulness based CBT is growing in popularity for variously classified mental disorders, mindfulness is another word for Vipassana, a Buddhist meditation technique.

For anyone who is struggling it is certainly worth looking at. If you have time on your hands, if you can't work, then certainly it is worth investing your time in and see if it works for you.

It may be possible to find a weekend retreat where you can be fed, houses, and taught meditation, it's normally quite reasonably priced ... and you also have the benefit of being in a tranquil environment.

Perhaps just try it. I have found meditation to bring a stability and coherence to the mind that is by all accounts tremendous.

If I could go back 20 years to when things where very bad for me, I would advocate that to me. As I would advocate spending time in the countryside, or a land based community.

Personally, I would also strongly advocate pranayama and yoga. As they also bring powerful stability to the mind. However certainly these need to be learnt with well trained people in an ashram or spiritual centre. The Scandinavian Yoga and Meditation Centre is one such place.

All things worth trying.

For me suffering mental distress is something that can go on for many many years. If you were able to invest your time in something that stabilised your life, it would save you years.

---------------------------------------

I have some quotes from RD Laing who's general view of medicine I agree with, and will put them here as an overview of the social context (just taken from Wikipaedia) :

If the human race survives, future men will, I suspect, look back on our enlightened epoch as a veritable age of Darkness. They will presumably be able to savor the irony of the situation with more amusement than we can extract from it. The laugh's on us. They will see that what we call 'schizophrenia' was one of the forms in which, often through quite ordinary people, the light began to break through the cracks in our all-too-closed minds.
R.D. Laing, The Politics of Experience, p. 107

Laing maintained that schizophrenia was "a theory not a fact"; he believed the models of genetically inherited schizophrenia being promoted by biologically based psychiatry were not accepted by leading medical geneticists.[14] He rejected the "medical model of mental illness"; according to Laing diagnosis of mental illness did not follow a traditional medical model; and this led him to question the use of medication such as antipsychotics by psychiatry.

I would strongly recommend Laing for those studying our activities on this planet.
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.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby magicbutterfly » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:39 pm

I remember what ET wrote about a woman on his bus who was talking to herself out loud and how he thought she was mad but then caught himself doing the same thing and realized that everyone talks to themselves except silently in our minds most of the time. There is a lot we don't understand about the universe and in some cultures people with schizophrenia were the spirit guides and were valued by the community. Perhaps one day we'll realize that they're the sane ones, the rest of the world is mad. On the other hand we are all one so by being present, you can only listen to one voice and that is the I AM.
"As soon as you honor the present moment, all unhappiness and struggle dissolve, and life begins to flow with joy and ease." Ekhart Tolle, The Power of Now
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby treasuretheday » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:34 pm

This is from a 1994 NYT article about John Nash, subject of the film A Beautiful Mind:
"Then came what Kuhn calls "a miraculous remission." And as happens, for reasons unknown, in the case of some people with schizophrenia, it was not, according to Mrs. Nash or Mrs. Legg, due to any drug or treatment.
"It's just a question of living a quiet life," said Mrs. Nash. The most dramatic sign of that remission, perhaps, is that Nash was able to do mathematics again. And now Nash is a Nobel laureate. The story of his prize is itself testament not only to his survival but to the fierce loyalty and admiration he inspired in others. "

World-renowned psychiatrists like Kay Redfield Jamison blame chemical imbalances or bad genes when a brilliant mind like Nash's succumbs to "mental illness," but in the absence of changes to his genes or his chemicals, what can account for Nash's return to sanity?

He spent three decades roaming around the Princeton University campus like a zombie. He believed himself to be commisioned to save the world by extraterrestrials. He thought he was a Palestinian refugee, a Japanese shogun and the biblical figure Job. (Out of respect for his brilliant work in the 1950's, he was allowed to wander the campus).

How could such a brilliant man come to believe such things? Later he would say that these ideas came to him the same way his mathematical ideas did, so he believed them. After 30 years, he decided one day that any politically oriented thinking was a waste of effort, so he determined that he would not bother with further thoughts regarding his secret missions and worlds. Around this time he was given a computer, and needed to interact with the computer lab people to learn how to use it.

The process of Nash regaining his sanity evidently remains a mystery, even to his family. Could it be that when Nash decided to reject his thoughts, he was on the way back to sanity? When he began to direct his mind to learning to use the computer, and then to mathematics again, instead of entertaining the irrational thoughts, he was no longer a complete prisoner of his mind; he had become its user. Interacting with computer lab staff also took him out of his private, secret worlds. Connecting with others surely helped him to hook back up to objective reality.

John Nash became completely sane, and in 1994, won the Nobel Prize.

We are not a mind. We have a mind. We say we go insane and lose our mind, but could it be closer to the truth to say that our mind loses us?
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Re: Schizophrenia

Postby coriolis » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:48 pm

It is easy to speculate that the human mind, by projecting a fictitious "me" that is precious and needs protecting, could have certain survival advantages for creatures who possess one.

It is also fairly easy to see how such a mechanism can easily overtake the creature who has it and go very badly astray wiping out every advantage it did provide with the liability of enslaving those it originally helped and destroying the environment necessary for their survival.

I think schizophrenics are those who experience the human mind as it actually is without an ego strong enough to blur that reality into something that is not quite so hellish.

It is a gift that keeps on taking.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin
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