The end of suffering

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

The end of suffering

Postby Spectacledbear » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:06 pm

Yo.

I have been ^practicing^ pressence for over 5 months now and i have gotten a ^taste^ of enlightenment. Still my suffering dramaticaly outweighs my joy in this slum of a life. I am always at unease when im with my friends and probably 95% of everyday of every year. A constant barbwire crawling in my belly and a voice that keeps saying its all pointless. The end of suffering is as easy as to end it all and suffer no more. Not all of us are so lucky that we go straight into the bliss like echart did ( speakin out of bitterness ) and its just a struggle because i know its all a rollercoaster where joy enters in the tiniest of moments where all else is social anxiety and a alien depressive aura hanging in and externaly around me.

Yeh, thats my ego whiny i feel so sorry for myself speech. But ofcourse it isnt my pain we all share it, even tho its clear that the people around me suffer so much less.
My englightenment is death.
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby Onceler » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:59 am

I hear you Speckledbear. Instant enlightenment would be amazing, but that doesn't seem to be how it works for most people. The process is slow with ups and downs and gradual polishing in the rock tumbler of life. You have started the process and you'll probably end up where you least expect to, so it's not to wise to make a lot of predictions at this point, or any point. At least that's been true for me.

For me, John Sherman's looking technique was a significant game changer and focused re-alignment in this process. It takes away the fear of life and gradually the psychological structures used to ward off the fear deconstruct, leaving you with intimate contact with your own life-buffer, filter free. It's a process without end and the unfolding is the trip.

Welcome to the forum.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby randomguy » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:27 am

Hey Spectacledbear, The story goes that Tolle suffered too, that he felt he could not live with himself any longer, then wondered how can there be two selves in that scenario.

Other teachers such as the psychologist/jesuit De Mello saw that many people had to suffer enough to be good and sick of it for a change to occur.

I have a history of depression and anxiety. Many it seems give up the self from this place of from suffering. There is this concept of "die before you die" in Zen. It is to let the illusory self die within the impersonal ocean of existence.

Regarding Tolle - "If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me: the 'I' and the 'self' that 'I' cannot live with. Maybe, I thought, only one of them is real. http://www.eckharttolle.com/article/Spiritual-Awakening-Of-Eckhart-Tolle
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby Yutso » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:22 am

Spectacledbear, I am sorry for your suffering.

Spectacledbear writes, "I have been ^practicing^ pressence for over 5 months now and i have gotten a ^taste^ of enlightenment."

Tolle says "presence" experienced, is irreversible. I know that's not easy to believe when presence feels so hidden and obscured. I hope recognition of "presence" is experienced by you now in this moment.

May spectacledbear be free from internal and external danger and harm, may you be safe and protected.
May spectacledbear be free from mental suffering and distress, may you be happy.
May spectacledbear be free from physical suffering and pain, may you be healthy and whole.
may spectacledbear be able to live in this world happily, peacefully, and joyfully, with ease.

I like the screen name you chose.
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:26 pm

Spectacledbear wrote:Still my suffering dramaticaly outweighs my joy in this slum of a life.

I suggest that you consider this perspective deeply. Especially "this slum of a life". This perspective will give you justification to see your life in a negative sense and be a constant distraction to the beauty life holds so long as it is prominent in your life view. What decides the quality and value in any life experience? Some outside entity? Some external standard? What decides where you focus your attention and how in any given moment? An event happens. Who and what decides what it means?

WW
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby treasuretheday » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:41 pm

Spectacledbear wrote:I am always at unease when im with my friends and probably 95% of everyday of every year.
Could this be a sign of growth? Of moving beyond your comfort zone? Could this be an important learning experience? Just because the experience feels disorienting & uneasy, doesn't mean you'd be better off going back to business as usual.
Spectacledbear wrote:Not all of us are so lucky that we go straight into the bliss like echart did

Piggybacking on WW's thoughts, who is to say who is lucky & who is not? The "bingo!" path or the "long & winding road?" Also, so much concern about getting & having special experiences makes you miss the actual experience of life.
Spectacledbear wrote: its clear that the people around me suffer so much less.
How can this be so clear? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, but everyone will suffer less than Spectacledbear!" Could it be these buddies of yours seem to have it all together because they aren't honest, open or concerned about, their inner lives? Could they simply be content with sleepwalking? You are going beyond that, & more in touch with a broader range of feelings & experiences.

(Hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride!). You're just running into the walls of your previously established comfort zone; ouch! When you bump into those walls you feel insecure, afraid, or weird. When most people bump into the walls, they retreat back into the safety zone. You can decide not to; to feel the fear & do it anyway. You can commit to living in a way that does not fit your preconceived notions of how things should be. And then the fear will fade. You will realize that the only thing to get out of life is the growth that comes from experiencing it.

It may feel in some moments like it's going to kill you, but it really won't kill you to go beyond your psychological limits. Just walk beyond where you were a minute ago & be with whatever is happening now.
Life itself is the proper binge.
-Julia Child
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby rideforever » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:23 pm

Spectacledbear wrote:A constant barbwire crawling in my belly and a voice that keeps saying its all pointless.

Believe it or not, that's exactly what you need ... if you don't have pain you are not going to reach.

Now stop, sit, come back to yourself and look deeply at what is happening inside you. This stuff is your food. Eat.

Feel the pain, go into the pain, suffer the pain. Dignity in being here, in being real, in feeling what is real.

This is the real warriorship. Face death. Face life.

Lover your life enough to feel it. Whatever it is.

Spectacledbear wrote:My englightenment is death.

Wake up !

Wake up from ALL fantasies, even those of a serious character, those about death.

Be - Here, be here beyond fantasies. Just Be.

[ do what you can - take a break when you need ... and know you are in good company and many have come this way before ...
right now on this planet many are doing this ... being true and feeling the pain ...
feel their support ... feel their spirit...
this is the way ]
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby Spectacledbear » Wed May 01, 2013 7:23 pm

Thank you all for your cocern and great comments, and hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm prayers.

The day after i wrote this i experienced a stronger conciousness then i ever have, and today is a great day with little mind activity and calm stillness.
But i notice that my mind turns on resistance when i enter deep counciousness, u know the feeling when you feel so good that u might aswell be high on heroin. My pain is my teacher i guess as someone mentioned here, it was liek it forced me into deeper counciousness.
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat May 04, 2013 1:13 pm

Good to hear bear.

But don't worry, this too will pass :wink:

Look forward to hearing more about your journey.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby Spectacledbear » Sun May 12, 2013 12:15 am

Uuurh. The barbwire has come back and now im ^battling it^ even tho i know im not supposed to, im supposed to surrender to the now. Even tho i can surrender alittle to the barbwire the alien feeling of not belonging to the world, depressive and sluggish feeling is still here. i Know that i know, and i know that i am not my thoughts and i confront it again and again. It seems like counciousness comes in waves and i cannot controll it no matter how much i observe and stay present. I cant sit in the sofa or walk in the woods all day either, its where i can most easily find stillness. On my computer and when im with people i go into deep unconciousness and it stays with me for hours bothering me, making me feel like shit. Surrender he says, its so hard its just so madly hard.
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby HermitLoon » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:09 am

Other than physical pain, attachment is the source of all suffering -
attachment to thoughts, beliefs, habits, wealth, power, other people and - the most basic of all - our natural attachment to the survival instinct (and to the fear of not surviving).

I am not proposing that all attachments should be severed.

I only seek to promote understanding - which is the first step toward Peace.
Peace
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby SandyJoy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:57 am

Glad you qualified that you are not proposing severing all attachments.

And, Yes, I suppose it should be explained that at a very material level, objective, false sense of self, if you believe you are "over here" and that something else you like or don't like "is over there"--then being attached might cause some pain. Yes, if you are dead set on the belief form and matter and in separation, then yes, one does suffer the slings and arrows of all those false beliefs that come with loss and fear of 'things' -- and his false sense of identity does suffer.

But it might help to say that when you Realize your True Identity you see you are not ever 'not attached'. All is All-in-all. Everything that is --Is within This Awareness that is Pesently Being Right Here and Now, and you are very much 'attached' to This Sweet One. You are the same one as the things you love, really. And Your Awareness includes 'every thing' -- you cannot be without This, so you include all that is.

You can not ever be separate from the Awareness that is being all images, things, people, places that appear to be coming and going ---but they are images within Your Ever Present Self-Knowing Consciousness. You cannot ever lose that, you cannot ever be separated or apart from This. So, nothing to fear, ever. Nothing to fear about 'things' they cannot harm or hinder or cause any thing to happen to Who You Are.

You do not have get rid of 'attachments' ---You only need to see them for the evidence of God's Consciousness in all Its Infinite Abundance and Love. This Awareness right here never leaves you--It is Being Who I Am--And it 'belongs' to the Ineffable Uncaused Isness.

I can't get more attached to Life than that; It is being all that I am, right now, not some other day, right now--Totally Am I and That includes All That Is or ever was or will be.
'
Kind of like I wrote somewhere earlier, Its like explosion and sound cannot be made two things, they are one, but both sound and explosion are present as explosion.

Life is such a Divine Wonder, trust the Love and Good that God is--Be It, Live It and watch the wonders of Good things come into your life. Life is God and God is Good and Good so full of Beauty and Love for you. God does not ask us to 'give up' anything, God does not want us to be "unattached' God does not want us to be sad and lonely. We are here to find our True Self, that will do the trick.

God is Love and It is Self-knowign and It does not deny Itself anything. God's Self is taking care of Its Self very well so you will always be taken care of. Do not fear attachment thinking it will cause you to suffer. Things are powerless they cannot cause you pain or suffering. You can give them the power to make you suffer, but they have no power in and of themselves.. They are images within Awareness.

The freedom of your True self, the Child you are, the Original One, he has not worry or fear of 'things' or getting attached. Then, when you know who you are, you may certainly enjoy abundance and actually Embrace the Whole Wild Wonderful Experience, even what seems 'bad' to you, is not bad at all, but Good ---you will one day look back and with all honesty you will see how Good this All Is and was. and that Love is so wonderful, the best thing about Life is Loving It all--To love and that includes our sweet sense of 'attachment' to others and to things---but to know the Light they are is what we Love, not images---Everything is the unfolding wonderful, ongoing aspects, qualities and attributes of God this Living Beauty we are the Self-Awareness of -- called Life.

Look for the Child of you and let that one take your hand and you won't be afraid of attachments.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby HermitLoon » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:07 pm

The beauty of deep thoughtless meditation is that, temporarily, all attachment and suffering disappears - All is One - the Reality of the Essence of Being is experienced.
Peace
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby SandyJoy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:16 pm

Yes, True that is a most meaningful and essential thing to see and have wash over us--It comes with healing on Its wings---Thank God for those moments where the Waters of Truth that do wash over us and Lift us up and heal us.

But we cannot stay there and we are not supposed to. It is good to understand then, how that is not the final goal--Like Plotinus on the Mountain top---we have things to do here in the world, we have a job to do once we really See---Then to bring it back into this tangible world of appearances and Live right here 'what we saw and know in our heart' of the Truth. This is where the real work is done, each will find the way to do what he is to do.

Yes, we all have seen Truth in those special moments and we all have Glimmers where the veil lifts for a moment and see and know and know what we see. We all find the Deep River and are immersed in It-- or the Mountain Top moments when we see "Yes Yes, It really is ALL One!" --=but we are required to bring what we see back the down the Mountain and Live in the world. That is the real goal while still here in 'the flesh' and seeming appearances that says "it's not one and its a lot of suffering" --- Here in this world of time and suffering and pain, this is where we do the 'work'.

We do not just sit on our silk cushion from then on--- We Live It as best we can Here in this tangible world where the Peace and Light is needed.

And I am adding the point that the way to do that, the way to bring that Understanding into the world--- is by finding the Balance between that Pinnacle View and the world view, between the objective view and the subjective view ---We become a synergy of Both--we stand touching 'both sides' as the River flows through us--- Here we are like a portal giving both ways.

We can and must be able to Live in the world while always abiding in that 'knowing peace'--- The world is need of the Light of Truth Lived. We won't help the suffering and pain if don't find the Balance and bring what we can of that Peace and Wonder and Joy and Truth to the 'rest of our self.

The Child is the Balance and when we find That, we are free from and suffering while still here living in the world, the Child knows What Is and knows how to Live that peace and Essence of being right here in the midst of this world.

When we all look out and about and See Heaven on Earth, then we know we did what we were here to do.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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Re: The end of suffering

Postby rideforever » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:06 pm

Lie on the floor on your back. Let everything go, be still, stiller than still ... fall into death.

And feel this barbed wire ... feel it everywhere ... all over. Let it come. Let it pierce you. And breathe.

Breathe.

And breathe. Be with the breath, let it be your guide as you go through it.

Where can you run to ? Stop. Accept the message that is sent to you.
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