Why am I choosing to suffer?

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby Clouded » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:34 am

I know that remembering the awful things from my past and worrying about my fears for the future is just a waste of time, so why do I keep doing it when I know that thinking does not solve imaginary issues, but only creates more? I swear it's like i'm addicted to it or something, I think I damaged my brain after my mental breakdown which landed me in the hospital and I feel that I lost an important part of my consciousness. I know that my age plays a huge role in my suffering because I keep reminding myself of all the things that I should have accomplished by now. Why are people my age in such a hurry to grow up? I try to forget my age as best as I can and I prefer to associate with teenagers because considering myself as an adult is depressing, nothing about me screams adult.
Last edited by Clouded on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby peas » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:26 am

When you're ready, you'll choose peace over all the other stuff.
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby Clouded » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:46 am

I believe that I will become peaceful once I reach the milestones that were meant to be reached at my age. I really don't like being a late bloomer, I don't like people's reactions when I admit that I'm not quite there yet at my age, I don't want to hear their opinions about me, and there's always an awkward silence when I tell people that I did nothing for almost a year. I feel ashamed to talk about my life, I always try to change the subject when someone is curious about my personal life. I could lie about myself and my age but then I'll get a panic attack because I'm afraid that they'll find out that I'm lying.
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby peas » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:28 am

There's a lot of "I" statements that remain unexamined. You are learning first hand what Socrates said so simply, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

The reason examination works is it forces you to separate from the statements, allowing a powerful shift of energy back to the spacious source. I've suggested this before for you. How did it go?
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby ashley72 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:09 am

Clouded,

It's taken me almost 7 years to recover from Panic disorder with Agoraphobia. I'm working on the OCD at the moment and have already recovered rapidly in the past two weeks.

The reason it took me 7 years was I didn't understand my disorders in the early years... And didn't get the correct treatment. If I'd had the right treatment from the start, I may not have even developed some of the compulsive & obsessive rituals & behaviours I did develop and had to awkwardly work through.

Mental illness has nothing to do with the Ego or "I" for the most part. So don't get bogged down with self image stuff. What you need to do is focus on what scenerios seems to be driving the anxious thoughts or panic and expose yourself to those things.

Remember Panic disorders is really a 2nd order illness of anxiety. It's when you treat the physical symptoms of anxiety as dangerous or threatening... Palpitations of the heart, sweaty palms, twitching etc.

The treatment for panic disorder is to first deal with the 2nd order part. You need to exposure yourself to something which causes sweaty palms, heart palpitations and stay with those symptoms until they subside. If they don't subside its because your still scaring yourself with them. Those symptoms are a normal part of feeling nervous nothing dangerous or threatening.

Don't worry about your self image just yet, recover from the disorder first and the other milestones in life will fall into place. Good luck you can do this! :wink:

Read everything on this website you can relate to and follow the advice.

http://www.anxietycoach.com/panicdisorder.html

Forget Exchart Tolle's stuff for the moment, it's not really what you need right now. PON is really for folks who don't have mental disorders and what to learn more about Ego tendencies and philosophy of life. It's not something that was written to treat someone with specific mental illness like panic disorder.

~ Remember all people develop Ego's (a self image) that's a healthy & completely normal part of the human condition... And it's certainly got nothing to do with why you have panic disorder or OCD etc. These disorders are a result of the sufferer being tricked into treating either the symptoms of anxiety as dangerous (2nd order) or something as dangerous (like being around a dog) (1st order). Both 1st & 2nd orders of the disorder can be treated effectively.
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby rideforever » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:58 am

Clouded wrote:I believe that I will become peaceful once I reach the milestones that were meant to be reached at my age.

What milestones ?
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby Clouded » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:32 pm

peas, I get what you're saying and that was good advice but a thought is arising inside and it is telling my awareness that maybe it's going to be tough and feel almost unnatural to stop thinking of myself as an individual because everyday I am being reminded that I am not at One with the Universe, that I am a separate being that it supposed to get a job in order to survive. I dunno, maybe I fear that if I stop referring to myself as I, I will become nothing and disappear into thin air lol.

ashley, I think you've sent me links to that website at least 5 times already. :lol: Don't worry, I read it the first time you posted it (about a couple months ago when I feared that I was becoming a psychopath), it's a good website and thanks for sharing it with me. I know all of this, but I can't help my unconscious mental processes, the unwanted movies that are playing in my head without me being aware of them at first. And much to my dismay, I noticed that there are no magic chants that are meant to drive fears away in Eckhart's books.

rideforever, for starters, getting a job that interests me? maybe buying a car so I can go whenever I want, wherever I want? But I can't get a car because I don't have a job and I can't get a job because I am not qualified and I have social anxiety. I just don't want to end up being 30 and still be living this way, how pathetic will that be? I want to evolve into a independent, confident adult someday and preferably sooner than later.

I tried facing a fear today and it worked partly because I've been awake for more than 24 hours (the deadline for my portfolio is slowly approaching, I have only one month left and I have trouble sleeping because I fear that I won't have enough time to complete everything I set up to do because I'm such a perfectionist and it's taking me forever to complete something!! btw if anyone is curious to see my creations so far, I can post them and you can criticize them) so my brain is too tired to trigger it's fight or flight response. And also partly since I know that it is the anticipation of the fear that is causing my anxiety, I brought the fear to me on purpose instead of avoiding it like the plague. What happened is that I saw a girl who I haven't seen in a long time (our parents our friends and she's sorta my neighbor and we wait at the same bus station) and at first I wanted to avoid running into her and walk the other direction (she didn't see me because she was in front of me) then I told myself to stop being a coward because this fear will only get worse if I keep avoiding it and I don't want to live my life in fear. So I went up to her, I acted all happy to see her (and I was) and the third thing I told her (out of the blue, really) is that I dropped out of school so I could just clear all the questions about what am I doing with my life because I knew the topic about school will be discussed eventually and I wanted to be the first to initiate it because it gave me more control. That was a success in my book of memories except that I embarrassed myself in the end. The socially awkward person that I am, when it was time to part ways, I told her thank you instead of goodbye and it bugged me so much, it came out of nowhere and this happens very often to me!!
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby peas » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:56 am

Clouded wrote:peas, I get what you're saying and that was good advice but a thought is arising inside and it is telling my awareness that maybe it's going to be tough and feel almost unnatural to stop thinking of myself as an individual because everyday I am being reminded that I am not at One with the Universe, that I am a separate being that it supposed to get a job in order to survive. I dunno, maybe I fear that if I stop referring to myself as I, I will become nothing and disappear into thin air lol.


Nice one. You just followed what I suggested, by saying "a thought is arising inside".

Now, you know that the fear that you speak of is not the problem. I mean, fear of disappearing and becoming nothing is very common on this journey. I certainly had it and it felt very strong at the time. That fear no longer arises, and I'm still here!

It's never the fear or thought that counts but whether you identify with it. In other words, believe it, get lost in it, align yourself with it.

You've started to break this identification. Instead of saying, "I fear that if I stop referring to myself as I, I will become nothing", try "I can sense a fear arising that says I will disappear if I stop referring to myself with 'I am this' and 'I am that'."

If the pain of this identification is strong enough you will disindentify, especially now that you know how.
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby ashley72 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:00 am

Clouded wrote:ashley, I think you've sent me links to that website at least 5 times already. :lol: Don't worry, I read it the first time you posted it (about a couple months ago when I feared that I was becoming a psychopath), it's a good website and thanks for sharing it with me.


Hi Clouded,

The reason I've reposted the links, is for two reasons.

1. You're asking again in frustration for the best advice for dealing with intrusive thoughts.

2. Other people reading the thread who have the same problem with intrusive thoughts benefit from reposting of links. Its also a permanent record, so even someone who finds the thread in 3 years from now... may benefit from your thread topic.

Clouded wrote: I know all of this, but I can't help my unconscious mental processes, the unwanted movies that are playing in my head without me being aware of them at first. And much to my dismay, I noticed that there are no magic chants that are meant to drive fears away in Eckhart's books.


If you know all of this.... and put it "all" into practice , you wouldn't still be posting about your frustrations with intrusive thoughts and feelings.

I've recovered rapidly from my illness, because I fully understand the "anxiety trick". Whereby, you mistakenly treat something harmless as dangerous. For me that was the symptoms of fear. Anxious or intrusive thoughts, heart palpitations, sweaty palms etc. Once I stopped treating those intrusive symptoms as dangerous, its been a rather straight forward recovery.

But it does take time to gradually expose yourself to your irrational fears and slowly de-sensitize your Amygdala to emotional memories.
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby Clouded » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:38 am

I guess I use this forum mainly for ranting purposes to get all my anger out. The thing is, I feel better when I whine here than to myself because when I give myself the type of advice that I receive here, it doesn't have as powerful as an effect on me than when I receive it from someone on the forum. When the advice comes from me, it sounds doubtful; this advice has to come from someone who I think knows what they're talking about. And when I tell stories to myself, I get emotionally involved in them because they don't feel like stories, they feel as if they're actually happening to me at that moment and I have to snap out of it, but I'm already too immersed in them. When I write my thoughts and memories down and share them with the world, I don't spend as much energy mentally picturing scenarios and dialogues, I focus mostly on translating my thoughts into understandable words and this time, it feels like I AM writing a story. I think I need constant reassurance that i'll get over this.

I try exposing myself to my fears (as what was mentioned in the last paragraph in my previous post). I guess the fears that bother me the most is those that involve other people's thoughts and feelings, which are unpredictable and out of my control. My panic attacks are very noticeable because I have a dear in headlights look, one hand on my chest sensing my heartbeat and the other mimics what a fan is supposed to do and I can't talk properly. The worst things anyone can tell me are: ''are you okay?'' and ''stop having panic attacks'' they usually worsen the symptoms and i'd rather be alone when they happen. I look pretty stupid doing it, especially in public places and I feel the need to hide in a bathroom stall and calm myself there. I also feel more comfortable if I have my cellphone with me on hand so I can dial 911 just in case it's something else. It's hard for me to not give importance to other people's reactions to my panic attacks, it's something that I'm very embarrassed of and wish it weren't a part of me.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:13 am

Clouded wrote:I guess I use this forum mainly for ranting purposes to get all my anger out. The thing is, I feel better when I whine here than to myself because when I give myself the type of advice that I receive here, it doesn't have as powerful as an effect on me than when I receive it from someone on the forum.


While advice from others can be helpful, it is far more beneficial in the long run to develop your relationship with your own inner guidance. The doubt you feel is a result from a type of conditioning that suggests we don't know anything and that we should trust what the 'authorities' say - whether it be parents or teachers or religious figures or books. Freedom comes from trusting our true self, our inner nature and guidance.

To get to the trust we need to feel comfortable and safe in relying on inner guidance - I recently heard it called 'natural intelligence' - we need to take some risks. Get quite and sense what feels right and then go with it. Even if it seems not to turn out the best, the practice will move us in the direction of alignment, and the more we do so, the clearer that insight becomes. Eventually we begin to read books and listen to others in a new way. We appreciate useful pointers but only to the degree that we see their value independently. We finally recognize that there are no authorities. There is only unique perspective and experience. As our perspective evolves, so too does the quality of our experience evolve.

For most this does not happen over night. It may not even be recognizable for awhile until some time has past and we begin to realize how much has changed in our understanding. It's a lifetime endeavor, so don't be in a hurry. Just stay the course and you will find joy and appreciation in life in a way you may not have thought possible. It really is all good.

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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby Sighclone » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:43 am

Clouded - sorry you are suffering so much. Adya and others have commented that one's ego needs to be fairly comfortable with itself, if you will, before Self-realization can be abiding. Sure, there can be glimpses, but there is so much chatter going on for you, accompanied with the social anxiety you speak of, that there really is no space for Presence. Presence is kind of fragile anyway, as thoughts come bounding up frequently. So...I recommend some conventional counseling - perhaps with a therapist who has some exposure to awakening, but if not, someone who can provide medications. This may be all temporary, but since you are grinding hard these days, maybe some chemical relief is warranted, plus some talk therapy. Sounds like all the well-meaning fine people here aren't really helping much.

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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby alex » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:36 pm

Have you tried becoming fully conscious of the tendency to move toward suffering? It is indeed an addiction and there is an unconscious attachment. Make the attachment conscious - just notice the mind's tendency to move toward negativity.
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby rideforever » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:41 pm

Clouded wrote:So I went up to her, I acted all happy to see her (and I was) and the third thing I told her (out of the blue, really) is that I dropped out of school so I could just clear all the questions about what am I doing with my life because I knew the topic about school will be discussed eventually and I wanted to be the first to initiate it because it gave me more control. That was a success in my book of memories except that I embarrassed myself in the end. The socially awkward person that I am, when it was time to part ways, I told her thank you instead of goodbye and it bugged me so much, it came out of nowhere and this happens very often to me!!

Well, that's very brave of you ... and it mostly worked ! That's so great.

I think you should keep trying like this ... and hopefully you can relax a little into these social situations ... and when you are more relaxed, even better outcomes will happen.

I also have that awkward feeling when I part company. It's like I am so relieved it hasn't been a big disaster ... that I forget what to do next !!!
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Re: Why am I choosing to suffer?

Postby ashley72 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:10 pm

rideforever wrote:I also have that awkward feeling when I part company. It's like I am so relieved it hasn't been a big disaster ... that I forget what to do next !!!


Parting company is often a peak moment for social anxiety, likewise for social introductions. I'm guessing because attention is back on you again as you say goodbye.


Social anxiety is actually your reaction to shame and embarrassment that produces these unwanted symptoms. Shame and embarrassment are uncomfortable feelings which fuel the idea that you have something to hide, some aspects of yourself which are so negative that you figure you should prevent others from noticing them. This leads to secrecy, a powerful force behind Social Anxiety Disorder.

The urge to keep your flaws secret leads you to oppose the symptoms. This is why someone concerned with blushing will find themselves thinking "I hope I don't blush!", and apply some extra makeup in the hope of hiding it. This is why someone concerned with sweating will think "Please, God, let me get through this party without sweating!", and pack some napkins in his pocket so he can dry his hands without observation. And on and on it goes, the same for symptoms of trembling, voice cracking, and so on. ~ http://www.anxietycoach.com


Again, the way out is to give up the need to hide anything about yourself, the more "open" book you make yourself the less likely you will have social anxiety. Eckhart Tolle is a perfect example, nearly any part of his life, including his deepest insecurities he now freely & openly shares with his audience. :wink:
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