Suffering

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Suffering

Postby Clarejasmine » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:38 am

I don't know if anyone can help. I feel so low and emotionally drained, I left my job last year to pursue further education and this has left me in a terrible financial situation, I had a relationship that ended in a awful way ( I was in love he I found out did not care at all. And was just a chancer) I feel I am letting everyone down and make my children's life miserable because I can't get out of my misery.
I felt some relief when I listened to the words of Mr Tolle but now I find it so hard to concentrate on the moment. My pain body is in over drive.
I know the pain I feel is not just down to the loss of this man, it has triggered this intense feeling of worthlessness of being completely unlovable of deserving nothing and try as hard as I can I am unable to shift it.

I am a strong person I am always there for people and friends, I would be the first to tell someone how valued they are. And I have many people who tell me how loved and appreciated I am, but these words do not sink in, I cannot except them. I just don't know what to do I feel at the end of my tether.
Thank you for reading I cannot tell anyone how bad I feel as I don't want to worry anyone.
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Re: Suffering

Postby treasuretheday » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:06 pm

Hi ClareJasmine! Welcome! So glad you decided to share with us here.

Btw, I absolutely love your name! Gorgeous.
Clarejasmine wrote:this intense feeling of worthlessness of being completely unlovable of deserving nothing and try as hard as I can I am unable to shift it.
Those thoughts in your head can seem so true and believable and important! I know CJ! But the good news is they are not true or important, so why believe them?
Clarejasmine wrote:I am always there for people and friends, I would be the first tell someone how valued they are
That is lovely! Now...just do that for ClareJasmine! Extend your warmth and friendliness toward yourself. What would you say to a friend in your situation?
Clarejasmine wrote:I have many people who tell me how loved and appreciated I am, but these words do not sink in, I cannot except them...
But do you tell yourself how loved and appreciated you are? Go to the same effort, make the same grand gestures toward yourself that you would make toward a friend you felt great affection for! Really experiment and play with this idea. Have fun with it.

Maybe you would send a friend a card to share your heartfelt affection? Why not send yourself a card? Pick out a beautiful card with artwork on it that speaks to you. Write yourself a loving note inside of it. Maybe something like: "ClareJasmine you are so kind and generous. I sure appreciate that about you! ClareJasmine, you are a caring mother and an interesting person who pursues her dreams. What a marvelous woman you are!"

Now, address it to yourself, put a stamp on it and mail it! Enjoy and savor the message inside when it arrives at your home.

Remember.. If something hasn't happened, it's not because it can't happen, or won't happen! It just hasn't happened yet!

Use your thoughts to think up new, empowering ideas! It's easy for all of us to fall into default mode and let those negative downer thoughts run wild. But we don't have to!

Some inspiring words from poet Walt Whitman:

Afoot and light-hearted I take to the open road,
Healthy, free, the world before me,
The long brown path before me leading wherever I choose.

Henceforth I ask not good-fortune, I myself am good-fortune,
Henceforth I whimper no more, postpone no more, need nothing,
Done with indoor complaints, libraries, querulous criticisms,
Strong and content I travel the open road.


Happy trails to you, ClareJasmine!
Last edited by treasuretheday on Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suffering

Postby rachMiel » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:07 pm

Clare, sounds tough where you are. Sorry. Been there, felt that. And your personal strength comes through, despite your current low.

Are you seeing a therapist and on depression meds? If not, please consider; they can help get you through the worst of it. Then, when you're feeling better, you can reduce or drop them.

Severe depression has a life of its own, it changes brain chemistry and structure. Presence/meditation alone is not usually an effective way to "fix it." Medication and psychotherapy + presence is, I think, a better bet.

This too shall pass.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Suffering

Postby Clarejasmine » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:14 pm

Thank you both for your kind responses, firstly seize the day that was beautiful and you made me smile in my heart. I will try your suggestions. In general I am a very positive person, it's just this one aspect I am struggling. As I've mentioned I have worked a lot on my mind body and spirit and feel this is now the big hurdle to over come. When I look back at the relationship he is such a version of my father it's scary, sometimes I feel grateful this man has given me the opportunity to try and figure this out, other times I feel so caught up in the negative thought I can't break out of it like it's suffocating.
I agree Rachmiel when I feel that low my brain does feel different,unable to function In the same way, like a million thoughts all popping into my head at once. But I really do want to try with out meds, I feel they will push down what it is I'm feeling for it to pop up again in the future (if you understand what I mean) the crux of the matter is ultimately the feeling of not being good enough etc as mentioned above. I want that to go, not have it dissipated by a new man's kindness, or meds, or from any outside source but for me to feel that for myself.
Thank you both again so much. That has really helped. Hope you're having a wonderful day.
Love ClareJ
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Re: Suffering

Postby rachMiel » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:26 pm

Clarejasmine wrote:I agree Rachmiel when I feel that low my brain does feel different,unable to function In the same way, like a million thoughts all popping into my head at once. But I really do want to try with out meds, I feel they will push down what it is I'm feeling for it to pop up again in the future (if you understand what I mean) the crux of the matter is ultimately the feeling of not being good enough etc as mentioned above. I want that to go, not have it dissipated by a new man's kindness, or meds, or from any outside source but for me to feel that for myself.

If you're up to working through this on your own, by all means: GO FOR IT! :-)

But if, as your OP sounded, you are in real immediate trouble, which means that your children are in real trouble by association, please consider getting outside help from a therapist and/or medication. Needing and getting help is not a shameful act; it is, rather, an act of courage and love.

P.S. A good therapist will push you *towards* that which you need to feel, and good meds will enable you to feel it without freaking out.
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Re: Suffering

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Clarejasmine, the power of our focus of attention creates. You only need to understand it a bit and put it to your own test. The more you think in a given way, the easier it is to continue to think in that way. Repeated thinking in a certain manner creates habits. Those habits become beliefs, and beliefs become (perceived) truths.

So, when we think negatively about ourselves often enough - often spurred by a self-judgment that has spread from one area of our thinking to another - that repetition becomes en-trained as a default perspective and, due to its automatic response and emotional accompaniment, is assumed to be truth. It is a self-made trap.

The good news it that the same process that got us into our debilitating belief structures can get us out of them. So, when we think better about ourselves often enough, that repetition becomes en-trained as a default perspective and, due to its automatic response and emotional accompaniment, is assumed to be truth. It is self-made freedom and joy.

Truth, as experienced from the human perspective, is simply about belief - and belief is to a large extent about the thought and the meaning we apply to the events and conditions that come our way. We can (and do) choose the meaning we apply to the stuff of life. Choose wisely, applying meanings to what happens in life that feels best to us, and our lives grow and prosper experientially. Apply meanings that are self critical and deflating and our life experience becomes smaller and unpleasant. But you already know this part from your own experience.

Isn't it time to choose for your own best interest. It really is just a choice made consistently enough to become en-trained as a belief. You currently have beliefs created by the default due to not understanding the process. Take charge of your perspective on life. Make seeing the best in all things - including your own thoughts and emotions - a permanent way of life. Create a new life through a chosen new focus.

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Re: Suffering

Postby Clarejasmine » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:48 pm

Rachmiel I'll make you a promise. If I feel that low again and to that level I will go. I should add I am 42 and my children are 19 and 21, just in case you worry I am also trying to cope with small children, i love them very very much I could never do anything that would hurt them as deeply as sinking to the ultimate low (if you understand my meaning) It's just seeing me sad makes them sad obviously, so the thoughts wait till they're asleep/out before they kick in. Perhaps a little empty nest panic is also at play. Thank you so much for your support you are very kind.

Web wanderer, this is what I truly believe, on most levels I am able to be positive, for example there is a woman who works in my college canteen, all my co students complained and moaned at how awfully rude and grumpy she is, but I have made it my point to be lovely to her, have a little chat, a smile a joke she is always sweet to me, asks how I am (give me an extra biscuit he he) I told all the others my experience 'perhaps she is having a hard time, be kind' and now they all do the same and they've have found the same results I did. The reason for my example is that I keep my thoughts positive toward all people except myself, I am my own harshest critic.
I know what you say to be fact, to be positive about anyone (be it the grouchy co worker, stubborn student (I worked with children for many years) etc) but this pattern of thought about myself is so very stubborn, it's like I feel I can't control it. It's not there at all times mostly I can recognise my good qualities etc but sometimes,and I've just had a bad couple of days, sometimes I just feel that all that is just not enough.
This break up has just reinforced that to the nth degree (in my distorted 'painbody' state) it's not about the guy and missing him, I don't any longer, wish him well, the way he treated me showed more how he is inside than me. I should add it wasn't a abusive relationship it was good we just both got scared I suppose and he ended it (harshly, abruptly and no contact from him)
anyway I am smart enough to realise it's not about him, it's what's been triggered, it goes back very far and deep and those thought patterns are proving persistent. I need to figure this out as I feel it's preventing me living as a fulfilling life as possible, and it's within reach but I just can't quite grasp it yet. And I'm searching for the tools to do that. Thank you for your post,you took a lot of time and it was extremely helpful.
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Re: Suffering

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:05 am

Clarejasmine wrote: but this pattern of thought about myself is so very stubborn, it's like I feel I can't control it.

You don't have to control it. You have to be okay with it. It's kind of a history lesson. It's what was set in motion by past thinking and beliefs. More important is how you will think about it now. Create something new in your thinking about what bothers you - something that makes things feel brighter. Begin moving that creative energy onto a new track, a new focus. You have the power of choice. Just exercise it.

There's nothing true about our beliefs except what we decide in this moment. Sure, these things can be stubborn. Mine are. It's seems pretty common for all of us. They have a kind of momentum. But I also know that these arising thoughts and feelings are just temporary once I decide to go another way in my thinking, and I will soon get back on track of what I prefer to focus on. Each cycle finds those troublesome thoughts less a problem and shorter lived. Soon they become irrelevant.

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Re: Suffering

Postby Clarejasmine » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:00 pm

I guess I need to detach enough from this pain and hurt so as to listen to the stillness and look objectively at the thoughts? I should see these thoughts as lies I tell myself because sometimes, we all have felt the visceral pang of pain and that strength of feeling can be like crack to us, like all extreme feelings. Yes I can really see while I'm feeling that bad, the absurdity of it,
Do we dwell on these bad thoughts until they loose their strength? For instance in my recent case if I follow the thought through, the fear that I will build barriers around myself and I will never let myself fall in love again and remain lonely or I actually am 'unlovable' in some way. Do I just have to try and really except that could happen, who knows? But then is that really the worse thing that can happen? I can live with that find happiness in other ways.
I think I'm making my point really badly. What I mean is all of us have our demons, our greatest fears, etc when we tell ourselves (or others tell us) these thoughts are wrong, in my case it would be friends saying 'of course you will find and give love again etc' we will always have that doubt nagging in the back of our mind of 'well how do you know? I very well might not! It's not a certainty' this last sentence is causing me to grieve at that possibility, as if it too is a certainty and really nothing is.
So instead of talking ourselves out of these fears, accept we have no control over them, what will be will be, and have faith that we're strong enough to handle that.
Sorry to keep harping on about 'love' but feel the root of this is that is the thing I fear most in the world. (Romantic love I mean not the other kinds ) and i believe facing the fear and learning to except it is key. Dealing with this is what I need to feel ok about at this time (for others it could be poverty, sickness etc) the moon will still rise, the sun will still set, stars will still shine even if that fear comes to pass.
Sorry if I am rambling a little. I'm thinking and writing at the same time. It's helping to express it.
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Re: Suffering

Postby oak tree » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:03 pm

Hi Clarejasmine,

I can relate to what you write about. I've had relationships end badly and been left with enormous pain and feelings of worthlessness. Now I'm thankful for these relationships as I wouldn't be here without them.
It seems to me that you are doing very well, facing your pain with honesty and courage.
I had a good meditation teacher who would direct me to pay more attention to the sensations in the body, the feelings of being unlovable and worthless. Sitting patiently with the pain helped me open up and gradually I was able feel peace and love within my body. Before that I was just trying to change my thoughts and beliefs, but as the old feelings were still there, I was repeating the same patterns and ending up in similar situations. I notice as I've faced the pain in my body the thoughts have naturally become more positive and loving.

I agree with you that there is no guarantee you will have another relationship. Who knows what will happen. But I find just being myself, being open, feeling love and tenderness in my heart is very fulfilling. More fulfilling than any romantic relationship!
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Re: Suffering

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:00 pm

Clarejasmine wrote:I guess I need to detach enough from this pain and hurt so as to listen to the stillness and look objectively at the thoughts?

I know there is a lot of talk going around about detachment, but efforts at detachment can just turn into denial which is not particularly helpful. I would suggest begin seeing troublesome experiences in a different context. No need to resist them, simply change what they mean to you. Rather than see them as an indictment on your character or self-worth, see them as an education on how a certain type of thinking leads to a certain type of experience. That's really all it is.

Do we dwell on these bad thoughts until they loose their strength?

Only so long as it takes to see how they came to be. Knowing they came about by applying a certain kind of meaning to events and conditions, is informative in that you recognize that a different kind of meaning will result in a different feeling experience. It is extremely beneficial to feel appreciation for our insights whether born of pain or of joy. It's all about gaining clarity and any experience can contribute to it if genuine understanding is the focus or our attention.

For instance in my recent case if I follow the thought through, the fear that I will build barriers around myself and I will never let myself fall in love again and remain lonely or I actually am 'unlovable' in some way. Do I just have to try and really except that could happen, who knows?

Let go of your concern for the future. Worry over what may or may not happen will only feed energy into your concerns. Rather look to finding peace, joy and appreciation in this moment. It is after all, always and forever 'this moment'. There is nowhere else to experience life. Just trust that life will unfold in your best interest and make the best of whatever happens. There is so much beauty and adventure to be experienced in life. To the degree we look for it and are open to it, it finds us in ever greater abundance.

I think I'm making my point really badly. What I mean is all of us have our demons, our greatest fears, etc when we tell ourselves (or others tell us) these thoughts are wrong, in my case it would be friends saying 'of course you will find and give love again etc' we will always have that doubt nagging in the back of our mind of 'well how do you know? I very well might not! It's not a certainty' this last sentence is causing me to grieve at that possibility, as if it too is a certainty and really nothing is.

I think it unwise to build your life around a given result or goal. What is far, far, more important and productive is living intimately with the journey of life. It's certainly okay to desire a specific experience in life, but not at the cost of what happiness is available in this moment. Being overly focused on our desires brings a constant reminder that they are not currently present. We then live in an unnecessary sense of lack.

If you must think about your desires, do so from the context of 'I love the idea of...(whatever it is)". An idea is present in this moment, and can be enjoyed for what it is, not fretted over for what it is not. Feel the difference between wanting what's not there, and enjoying what is - even if it's just a beautiful idea. Live in the enjoyment of the moment. Create conditions through thought and meaning that work in your best interest. You'll feel what's right for you. It may take a bit of time and practice, but results are certain if you stay with it. Make it your way of life and your life experience will respond to your liking.

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Re: Suffering

Postby Clarejasmine » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:13 am

Oak tree thank you for your response and yes I agree whole heartedly, this is where I found repeating affirmations can really fall short, yes for some things they really can be beneficial there is a place for the positive thinking but as WW has suggested resisting these thoughts and detaching from them can lead to denial.
I believe if a thought keeps on cropping up in my mind over the years (which this has) I need to face it and come to terms with it in order to move forward.
WW yes I concur and agree with the above. I feel a lot better about it after an intense few months of giving it far to much thought. It's really helped talking it out and thanks from the bottom of my heart.
I was letting grief of the past and fear of the future cloud my mind and consume me. I was focusing on a lack I felt, instead of new better possibilities that could arise in the future (whatever they could be)
I was placing too much emphasis on feeling foolish for caring about someone who did not, instead of as you say see it as a lesson learned. I made assumptions about their motives too, I don't know why or what led them to behave in the way they did, guessing doesn't help me. I can dwell on the negative of what has happened to me or remember the good and learn from the parts that weren't so good as you say it an education.
Thanks again all who helped me. I really feel so much better and more positive again. Months of bottling it up, internalising it and letting it all run riot in my head had taken it's tole.
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Re: Suffering

Postby peas » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:24 am

Clarejasmine wrote:I don't know if anyone can help. I feel so low and emotionally drained, I left my job last year to pursue further education and this has left me in a terrible financial situation, I had a relationship that ended in a awful way ( I was in love he I found out did not care at all. And was just a chancer) I feel I am letting everyone down and make my children's life miserable because I can't get out of my misery.
I felt some relief when I listened to the words of Mr Tolle but now I find it so hard to concentrate on the moment. My pain body is in over drive.
I know the pain I feel is not just down to the loss of this man, it has triggered this intense feeling of worthlessness of being completely unlovable of deserving nothing and try as hard as I can I am unable to shift it.

I am a strong person I am always there for people and friends, I would be the first to tell someone how valued they are. And I have many people who tell me how loved and appreciated I am, but these words do not sink in, I cannot except them. I just don't know what to do I feel at the end of my tether.
Thank you for reading I cannot tell anyone how bad I feel as I don't want to worry anyone.


There is a lot of "I" in your post. Examine who you are actually talking about when you say these things:

"I don't know..."
"I feel so low..."
"I was in love..."
"I am a strong person..."
"I cannot accept..."
"I just don't know..."
"I feel at the end..."

Who is the "I" that you talk about?

This is very similar to what Eckhart did at age 29 when he heard the voice in his head say, "I can't live with myself any more." His investigation of that "who is the I?" question was the thing that cracked open the contradiction of his mind-made self.
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Re: Suffering

Postby Clarejasmine » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:52 am

Yes yes yes 'I' agree. It's a hard habit to break. I don't know if this step is alluding me because I've been thinking about it too hard when really I should practice stilling it more. I think therefore I am. Trying to hard to find answers instead letting them come on their own. It's tricky when you're caught up in the midst of negativity to step outside the Ego. If you're trying to understand why you feel that way. Perhaps what you are suggesting is the next step in the ladder.
Thanks you.
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Re: Suffering

Postby Phil2 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:44 pm

Clarejasmine wrote:I don't know if anyone can help. I feel so low and emotionally drained, I left my job last year to pursue further education and this has left me in a terrible financial situation, I had a relationship that ended in a awful way ( I was in love he I found out did not care at all. And was just a chancer) I feel I am letting everyone down and make my children's life miserable because I can't get out of my misery.



At times thought can really be a 'torture instrument' : I am worthless, I am miserable, I am this ... I am that ... I am not this ... I am not that ...

As Mooji says in this video "unhappiness is a thought" ...

You might consider watching this interesting video dear friend ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04XAG_KsHvg

Take care of yourself.

:-)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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