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The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:36 am
by Phil2
Just read Byron Katie's book "Loving what is" about her method called "The Work" she uses to make people realize the truth and free themselves from their problems in their life and their relationships with other people.

http://thework.com/thework.php

Here's what Eckhart says about this book:
http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_n ... hat_is.htm

"Byron Katie's Work is a great blessing for our planet. The root cause of suffering is identification with our thoughts, the 'stories' that are continuously running through our minds. Byron Katie's Work acts like a razor-sharp sword that cuts through that illusion and enables you to know for yourself the timeless essence of your being. Joy, peace, and love emanate from it as your natural state. In Loving What Is, you have the key. Now use it." -- Eckhart Tolle, author of The Power of Now


The key of her method is based on 4 simple questions about our 'so-called' problems we see in others (our negative judgements etc ...), she calls this questioning the 'investigation':

The four questions are:

1) Is it true?

2) Can you absolutely know that it's true?

3) How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought?

4) Who would you be without that thought?

Then a key aspect of the method consists of 'turning our judgements around' ie. instead of saying "HE should be such and such ...", it turns around as "I should be such and such ...".

So how does this simple method relate to Eckhart's teachings ?

When we say something like "this should be so and so" what does this mean ?

??

It means that we negate or resist to "what is" ... things as they are is the only reality ... so saying "this [i]should be otherwise than it is" [/i]can only be untrue, false ... this is the role of the first 2 questions to see this.

And this reminds me this quote from Anais Nin:

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are" ...

Then the third question is about the effect of this thought on me ? What is this effect ? ... it can only generate stress and discomfort, because I cannot fight 'what is' ... this is impossible ... what you resist persists ...

Then the last question addresses the freedom form those erroneous thoughts, when I free myself from those thoughts, then I am free from all the conflicts I did create with my own judgements and thoughts ...

Then the role of the 'turnaround' is a key aspect, why ? Because instead of saying "others should be such and such ..." (which means btw that I am a 'victim' of others), the statement becomes "I should be such and such ..." which means that the problems lie in ME and that I can now take my own responsibility for my own life ... and this frees me, because what I am does no more depend on what others say or do or think, but only on what I say or do or think ... and this is freedom ...

All we have to do is "Love what is" ...

:)

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:32 am
by smiileyjen101
Ah dear, this is kind of funny, as I do 'love what is' :D

Recently Phil you shared that you sometimes find my posts confusing, and I'm sitting here thinking
....I know Phil is likely saying something really worth while in this post, and I know that English is his second language and I know that French grammar syntax is different to English in sentence structure... and I know that it's within my capacity that I don't understand what it is he is trying to share, even though I would like to.

For me 'should' does not come into it.

It just is.

...Can I ask though - have you answered your own questions in this? The ones regarding what it has to do with ET's teachings etc
.............

Then re this.....

Then the last question addresses the freedom form those erroneous thoughts, when I free myself from those thoughts, then I am free from all the conflicts I did create with my own judgements and thoughts ...

Then the role of the 'turnaround' is a key aspect, why ? Because instead of saying "others should be such and such ..." (which means btw that I am a 'victim' of others), the statement becomes "I should be such and such ..." which means that the problems lie in ME and that I can now take my own responsibility for my own life ... and this frees me, because what I am does no more depend on what others say or do or think, but only on what I say or do or think ... and this is freedom ...


Is this reaching the same 'freedom' understanding as the quote I quoted in the other thread?

I am responsible for what I say (and do), but I am not responsible for what people understand.
Other people are responsible for what they understand.
They are the ones who give meaning to every word they hear.

Don Miguel Ruiz (- whose native tongue/understanding is Toltec>Spanish>English)

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
by Phil2
smiileyjen101 wrote:
Is this reaching the same 'freedom' understanding as the quote I quoted in the other thread?

I am responsible for what I say (and do), but I am not responsible for what people understand.
Other people are responsible for what they understand.
They are the ones who give meaning to every word they hear.

Don Miguel Ruiz (- whose native tongue/understanding is Toltec>Spanish>English)


Hello Jen,

It seems we are not living in the same world ... probably you come from Venus or somewhere ... different frequencies ...

:lol:

but it's ok for me, there are many worlds to explore ... this must be a wonderful journey to explore all those planets and universes ...

8)

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:00 am
by smiileyjen101
It seems we are not living in the same world ... probably you come from Venus or somewhere ... different frequencies ...


Take me to your leader... I come in peace. :lol:

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:07 am
by Phil2
smiileyjen101 wrote:
It seems we are not living in the same world ... probably you come from Venus or somewhere ... different frequencies ...


Take me to your leader... I come in peace. :lol:


So welcome to Earth ...

:lol:

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:58 pm
by alex
Phil, you're on to it. People tend to think that recognizing your true nature and resting in/as awareness is enough to end the illusion. I have learnt that those deep seated belief systems will always contract awareness again. Enquiry is essential and Byron Katie's method is beautiful.

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:24 pm
by Phil2
alex wrote:Phil, you're on to it. People tend to think that recognizing your true nature and resting in/as awareness is enough to end the illusion. I have learnt that those deep seated belief systems will always contract awareness again. Enquiry is essential and Byron Katie's method is beautiful.


Right, however it seems to me that this method remains only intellectual, kind of 'cognitive therapy' ... and that an intellectual only method is not sufficient to go deeply in healing process from past wounds and repressed memories ... it has to be coupled with some 'emotional' healing like 'primal therapy' from Arthur Janus or mindful meditation as described in the book "The mindful way through depression: Freeing yourself from chronic unhappiness" which ally cognitive methods (like psychoanalysis and other 'talk cures') and meditation ...

The Mindful Way through Depression - Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness

MARK WILLIAMS
JOHN TEASDALE
ZINDEL SEGAL
JON KABAT-ZINN

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:44 pm
by randomguy
I agree that the heart of inquiry is not the intellectual experience. Rather I find the heart of inquiry to be a willingness to explore a new way of seeing and experiencing outside of familiar patterns. At the core of Katie's work is the experiential exploration of what it is like (to feel what it is like) to live without attachment to a story. This focus is not in my experience an intellectual practice, though it could certainly be utilized that way.

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:49 pm
by alex
According to Byron and in my experience it isn't an intellectual activity, she says that it's easy to turn it into one if you're not doing it correctly.
Seeing that you don't absolutely know those sticky sticky beliefs to be true tends to bring the mind undone and directly opens the heart. Seeing the truth of the turnaround allows you to sit in your own emotional pain and low self worth until it is transmuted.
Just see that you are really sitting with The Work deeply enough.
Her method of bringing down defences in regard to other's criticism of you has also made such a massive and immediate difference in my life.
We all have a different path though, just wanted to clarify that it's not supposed to be intellectual :0)

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:07 am
by DavidB
Before we become too enamored with "the work", we might want to inform ourselves a little more.

http://m.friendfeed-media.com/277ac5ef9 ... ca9127db9e

Janaki's experience with Byron Katie was quite enlightening, but not in the ways you might expect. Byron isn't quite the person we all get the impression she is.

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:44 am
by Phil2
DavidB wrote:
Janaki's experience with Byron Katie was quite enlightening, but not in the ways you might expect. Byron isn't quite the person we all get the impression she is.


Any image you make of someone (including yourself) is fundamentally flawed ...

Byron Katie apparently succeeded in making Janaki free of her ... so she respected her principle "truth will free you" ... any good teacher will always want you to be free, not to depend any more, not to remain a beggar of love and affection and approval from others ... and of course ego does not like that, because ego always wants others recognition and approvals ... and there is no freedom in this ...

Reminds me the words from J. Krishnamurti (Dissolution Speech. 1929) "My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free. " ... "be a light onto yourself" ...

:)

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:58 pm
by DavidB
Any image you make of someone (including yourself) is fundamentally flawed ...


Indeed

Byron Katie apparently succeeded in making Janaki free of her ... so she respected her principle "truth will free you" ... any good teacher will always want you to be free, not to depend any more, not to remain a beggar of love and affection and approval from others ... and of course ego does not like that, because ego always wants others recognition and approvals ... and there is no freedom in this ...


Indeed again

Reminds me the words from J. Krishnamurti (Dissolution Speech. 1929) "My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free. " ... "be a light onto yourself" ...


There really is nothing to discuss and nothing to achieve. The Ego resists this more than anything.

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:36 pm
by randomguy
DavidB wrote:Before we become too enamored with "the work", we might want to inform ourselves a little more.

http://m.friendfeed-media.com/277ac5ef9 ... ca9127db9e

Janaki's experience with Byron Katie was quite enlightening, but not in the ways you might expect. Byron isn't quite the person we all get the impression she is.


I thought you were a guru, then I saw you pooping.

Does the poop invalidate "the work" or does it lend toward questioning the thoughts about looking for a guru in an other person? Where is the guru? There are pointers to truth. Katie has some good ones.

Is it fair to summarize the story like this; working for what I thought was a real live guru didn't give me everything I expected.

So, were the thoughts of the real-live guru true? Where do the expectations come from?

"
After reading through some of them, I noticed a
reoccurring belief. It said, Katie should see me for who I am. One of the turnarounds is very
interesting: I should see Katie for who she is. At the time, when I would make this
turnaround, all I could think is that Katie is equal to the Guru, so therefore she is omnipotent
and omnipresent, so instead of seeing her as a normal and equal human being, I was seeing
her as a divine and perfected being that simply cannot make mistakes, so therefore it had to
be me. In this behavior I firmly placed her on a pedestal. What I realize now is that if I put
her there, then I also need to take her off. No one can do that for me, including Katie herself
"

"
Perhaps I will lose friends over this publication, perhaps people will throw The Work back at
me, perhaps people will feel offended. I don’t know. It is not my intention to offend anyone.
I do know that I need to tell this, and somehow, in the writing of this, many things were seen
through.
"

Good stuff.

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:57 pm
by Phil2
randomguy wrote: Where is the guru? There are pointers to truth. Katie has some good ones.



Exactly, why care about the vessel ? when the water is pure you may drink it ... when some pointers/signposts are useful for you, use them ...

A finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger ...

Re: The Work of Byron Katie

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:14 pm
by Onceler
I thought it a very good treatise on gurus and enlightenment....I especially liked the Tony Parsons quotes and his differentiation between enlightenment (or the concept thereof) and liberation.

I really liked Byron Katie at one point, but reached that recursive loop where 'the work' didn't work. Nice way to unwind beliefs after one has had a clear, unblinking look at ones raw essence.....don't think the work, any guru, or any practice can lead to the simplicity of you.