Are we 'connected' ?

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby presenttense » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:53 pm

Phil2 wrote:Well probably even more according to our fears than to our desires ... I think that fears are more powerful than desires in this perspective ...


Phil2 wrote:Have you heard about the 'Law of Attraction' ?


Yes I heard about the LOA, Phil...

But why people say that fear is powerful than desires? Is it a concept?
Why fear always wins?
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:11 pm

presenttense wrote:
Phil2 wrote:Well probably even more according to our fears than to our desires ... I think that fears are more powerful than desires in this perspective ...




But why people say that fear is powerful than desires? Is it a concept?
Why fear always wins?


Well maybe because fears come more from the unconscious than desires ... it is rather easy to control one's desires, while fears are almost impossible to control ... hence fears are 'stronger', they cannot be 'repressed' easily, and even when repressed, they come back by the backdoor ... they come from a deeper level in us ... fears are very powerful ... most people are really 'dominated' by their own fears ... which generally translate in a number of mental disorders like neuroses (depression, anxiety, obsessions and phobias of all kinds etc ...)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:30 pm

Phil2 wrote:
rachMiel wrote:
Calling this "love" doesn't resonate so much for me, probably because love is such a loaded term.



Well I would agree. The word 'love' is so much loaded and has been so much misused and misunderstood ...

Moreover the word 'love' implicitly contains some fragrance of 'duality', because when I love something, implicitly it means that I can also hate it ... so love has an opposite ... also in love, there is some kind of 'doing', love is an 'action' ... and we can 'do' it or not ... it 'depends', it is 'conditional' ...

It is difficult to find a word without opposite, even 'life' has an opposite which is 'death' ...

Personally I prefer to use the word 'awareness' or even 'presence' (Eckhart often refers to 'being'), which are not too much loaded, though I agree that they also have their opposites as 'unawareness' and 'absence' (or 'distraction') ... while I admit that 'being' does not have any obvious opposite ...


Is it loaded? I don't think so. I can say the same thing about the word 'Awareness' as itself hints at the duality of 'non-awareness', or basically any word in the English language. Anything we write here to each other will always hint at duality because every concept has an opposite, if we choose to see it that way :wink: . Yet, is that a valid reason to fear a term?

yes, I sense a lot of fear with many as far as embracing the word 'love' and I wonder why. I say shout it from the rooftops! :D

For me, that's what spirituality is all about, the realization that there is nothing , but.....love. Of course this gets clouded myself at times when my mind takes over. But, even in that, there is love which allows that egoic perspective to narrow as much as it would like, with no judgement what-so-ever.

We're not talking about conditional love here. We're talking about a love that knows no conditions. A love that has no opposite. A love that we will fully understand once we shed these physical bodies.

I say, if the term itself scares you, then try to look past the actual word at what unconditional love points to. Seems like my entire post earlier in this thread was completely ignored by you Mr. Phil, and instead, you chose to focus on one single word called 'love' that I used, instead of what that love is actually pointing to.

I wonder why that is
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:48 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Seems like my entire post earlier in this thread was completely ignored by you Mr. Phil, and instead, you chose to focus on one single word called 'love' that I used, instead of what that love is actually pointing to.

I wonder why that is


Hmm, seems a rather emotional reaction, no ? Are you 'irritated' because I ignored your post and its high valued opinions ? Is this your personal application of 'unconditional love' ?

Have you noticed maybe that I did not answer your post directly, but a comment made by RachMiel on your post ?
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:05 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Seems like my entire post earlier in this thread was completely ignored by you Mr. Phil, and instead, you chose to focus on one single word called 'love' that I used, instead of what that love is actually pointing to.

I wonder why that is


Hmm, seems a rather emotional reaction, no ? Are you 'irritated' because I ignored your post and its high valued opinions ? Is this your personal application of 'unconditional love' ?

Have you noticed maybe that I did not answer your post directly, but a comment made by RachMiel on your post ?


hmmm....wonder where that came from?....remember....what you point out in another is merely what you think yourself. Aka....Byron Katie which you like to quote a lot. :D The fact that you would even imply that makes me think, that when you fear, you like to deflect questions back to the other poster as a defense mechanism. Of course, I can't know this for sure, but from reading your posts, it sure seems that way as you do this very often instead of answering the question at hand.

I've absolutely gotten frustrated with your posts in the past, and admitted as such to you at the time, but this time, my response was 100 percent completely observatory. Now, however, after reading this very latest post of yours right here, you've most certainly got a more emotional reaction of me. Then again, it seems your own response was filled with emotion as well. Isn't that beautiful how we both can see this? 8)

It was so blatant how you chose to ignore the main focus of the post (regardless of whether it was my post or someone else's) to focus on one word 'love' instead of what that love was pointing to as almost a mechanism to deflect unconditional love.

So, let's get back to the question I asked initially. Why do you fear the term 'love' Phil? What is it that love points to that scares you? I'd love to know and I ask those only from my own place of love. You can choose not to answer of course.

Actually, let me change that....what is about what 'unconditional love' actually points to, whether it was what I wrote in my post previously, or what you believe that unconditional love actually is, that scares you about it? Forget the terminology here and let's just talk about unconditional love itself. This is not a personal debate. This never was. Only in your mind, seemingly out of fear, have you turned it into one. Let's stick to the subject at hand.
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby runstrails » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:18 am

E2B wrote: o, let's get back to the question I asked initially. Why do you fear the term 'love' Phil? What is it that love points to that scares you? I'd love to know and I ask those only from my own place of love. You can choose not to answer of course.


I'm not Phil---but I'm one of those who finds love to be a very loaded term too. It seems to have a lot of theistic (religious) connotations. Kinda happy clappy. But that is my (linguistic) problem, obviously and I realize that.
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:48 am

Enlightened2B wrote:

I've absolutely gotten frustrated with your posts in the past, and admitted as such to you at the time, but this time, my response was 100 percent completely observatory.


This might be your 'rationalization' ... my take is that your 'pain body' has been awakened once again, for reasons I ignore ... which has triggered your 'defense system' and the emotional reactions ...

Did I 'touch' some old wounds maybe ?

:?:
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:01 am

Enlightened2B wrote:
It was so blatant how you chose to ignore the main focus of the post (regardless of whether it was my post or someone else's) to focus on one word 'love' instead of what that love was pointing to as almost a mechanism to deflect unconditional love.



Maybe here's the answer ... I have "ignored" what you said, I have ignored YOU ... and this has irritated you, right ? You don't like to not be taken seriously, to be ignored ... maybe you suffered from a lack of attention in the past ? and this triggers your 'pain body' ... some old wounds from the past coming back to surface ?

:?:

Do you need others to 'love' you unconditionally ?

As you referred earlier to Byron Katie, maybe you could meditate on this one of her quotes:

"If I had a prayer, it would be this: “God spare me from the desire for love, approval, or appreciation. Amen.”

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:19 am

Phil, once again, seeing emotional reactions in others, is merely a product of your own emotional reaction.

My initial post to you was written with only love as a mere observation of something you said and I stick by that observation. I asked a simple question on why you chose to focus on a single concept within such a vast discussion of such a broad subject matter, and look how you've completely turned the conversation into a defensive/emotional reaction (ironically) on your part. Looks like I ironically, struck a nerve with you, unintentionally. Trust me, I will gladly admit if I get frustrated by your posts and you know that you have a tendency to get under people's skin :D

The difference is that I can admit when my emotions get stirred. I still don't know who the true Phil is outside of the mask you hide behind on this forum. I would love to see the vulnerable side of Phil, the one we have yet to meet, a more open, not so rigid Phil. I think there's a lot there that I would appreciate. But, then again, I appreciate the perspective you bring right now. You are who you are. I'll leave it at that with love to you. :D
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:04 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Phil, once again, seeing emotional reactions in others, is merely a product of your own emotional reaction.



Why make such assumptions ? ... is it impossible to see/observe others emotional reactions without being oneself carried away by those emotions ? What does it require to do that ?
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:09 am

Enlightened2B wrote:I still don't know who the true Phil is outside of the mask you hide behind on this forum.


Very simple Mike, the real Phil is exactly the same as the real Mike ...

so if you know WHO you are then you know WHO I am ...

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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