Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:32 pm

Hi David, I think you meant to reference Zen there instead of me. No worries.

I don't disagree with you, but I would say there is most certainly a Self. I don't really like the term emptiness because I feel that what we are is so 'Full' and not empty. Granted not the self we believe ourselves to be via thought, but an Eternal Self where all is connected when thought stops. My own experiences......

I've had profound experiences in the past when I initially had my awakening and when I joined this site where thoughts stopped and everything was just seemingly blissful. Tolle's reference of 'Space' was what did it for me at the time. I had many long stretches of this over a series of months in 2013, and while everything seemed just "is" and it's hard to describe, there was still an 'I AM' for sure, granted it was almost like 'I' was aware that nothing I was experiencing represented the true me and I was constantly aware of my thoughts and feelings almost like being in a heightened state of awareness, but without any kind of stress. It was meditation all of the time for me as I rarely hooked on to anything in my experience and it made for quite a blissful number of months. And I realized that no matter the apparent separation of I (from this body) from a different I (another person, animal, etc), there was still the eternal I AM that had no separation beyond thinking and it was only thinking that creates the notion of separation and this was very strong and important for me I felt because it was a glimpse as it turned out as eventually the thinking mind took over again and claimed ownership to little me and my life seemed to tread back into ego almost full force and it's right now, it's probably been the most toughest times I've had to experience on my spiritual journey because of the ego. But, I also feel that I know there's a way beyond thought.

Zen, on to your post.

Regarding enlightenment taking many lifetimes - personally I don't find considering my prior or future lifetimes very helpful. When I find myself pondering what I've been or what I will be I get lost in those thoughts. Instead I like to remind myself of the unifying factor within all those experiences. Each experience is Now. Literally, undivided, Now. Enlightenment will happen Now. It cannot happen any other time. (I know you are aware of this, but I know I need to constantly be reminded of this fundamental fact [it's rare I say 'fact' but in this case I feel it's justified] so thought it was worth mentioning). Also I do see your point that we live multiple lifetimes to advance spiritually and this is unlikely to be our last - but it might. Either way it's an assumption and focusing on the moment feels more helpful to me.


An assumption it may be, but it feels very likely for me. But, that's not why I referenced it. It was just a phrase I was using and nothing more, in reference to what full enlightenment might be, as you described in your last post (with no desires and no fears) as that would seemingly take multiple lifetimes to finally get to the root of all of our conditioning. On the other hand......

Personally, I believe it is possible to be completely free from attachment to desire and fear leading to total liberation from vibratory experiences. This would not mean an end to these experiences, but rather a freedom to experience while being fully aware that you are not these experiences - that you are the awareness that experiences and is the source of all experience but not in any way contained by these experiences.


This to me, seems a bit different than what you were prescribing in the previous post. Meaning, non attachment to desires and fears is far different in my book than actually not having desires and fears which is seemingly what I thought you were saying. Maybe you still were?

Sometimes I desire romantic relationships. I haven't been in one for a few years, though there have been a couple of brief encounters since then. When I contemplate these things I am reminded that none of these desires have ever been fully satisfied. At one time I was in a romantic relationship that I thought was perfect. That led me to desire it to continue as my vision of perfection. This led to the tensions and fears of it ending. Leading to jealousy and me pushing this person away in an attempt to avoid the fulfilment of my fears. In the sense of partnership - relationships have never provided lasting peace for me - no true satisfaction. So these desires now feel like something it would be wise for me to let go of. Doing so is a work in progress. The same for sex and masturbation. Both provided temporary relief which is counterbalanced by the tension of the absence of that relief. If i had sex I may feel satisfied for a brief time, but this will fuel future dissatisfaction when my sexual desires are not met. Fuelling this cycling of desire of experience and fear of absence of experience feels foolish to me. That isn't to say I don't have sexual desires and fears. Just that I am starting to see that they (and all fears and desires) are a hinderance to spiritual progression which is the only way within my awareness for true, lasting peace.



I also believe that letting go of desire and fear does not mean an ending of relationships. Rather, it would be the beginning of relationships without the tyranny of conditions, which would be better for all.


Ok, THIS now. This late quote is wonderful and I fully agree. Please understand that I'm not suggesting that relationships (romantic) are based on desire. No, not at all. I'm simply implying that romance still has at some level, even the most basic level of desire that is there. I don't think it's possible to completely eradicate desire 100 percent from your relationship with your partner especially where sex is involved. But, sexual desire does not have to equal craving. I can desire my girlfriend (I'm single, but just hypothetical), but not necessarily feel a craving for her. Same discussion I had with Fore and I just don't agree with the terminology. At least you are using in a more understandable approach than fore is. Or maybe it's because I'm not enlightened yet :D

When you say desires are a hindrance, I get what you're saying. And I feel the same way many times. I feel that constant interaction with the western world seems to drive desires more and more for me, especially with the high level of conditioning my mind has. Sometimes, I'd like to move away from the western world and simply live a life like a monk and just meditate 24/7 or live on a beach. Yet, I feel like that life is not available to me right now, nor do I know if I really want it and seems that I am making part of my experience 'wrong' even when I feel that desire to have that particular experience as well. I had this same discussion with Fore (granted he was approaching it more dogmatically than you).

Desire and fear are both craving - the impulse to change the moment. Without craving there can be no anxiety or fear or desire as you would be comfortable in the moment regardless of the content of that moment. The completely end of craving is the complete end of suffering which is enlightenment. Though there are many people on this planet who seem to have reached a sort of partial enlightenment (having partially transcended vibration and experienced The Self directly in the complete absence of any vibratory experience), the number who have completely transcended seems incredibly low. Using Ramana Maharshi as a kind of spiritual gold standard, he had many, many students and only said two had become enlightened. So I suspect we are all a work in progress and should focus on non-judgemental awareness of our momentary experience - relaxed, indifferent awareness of all experience without attachment to these experiences. Our true nature cannot be experienced with the senses or the mind. It is not physical reality. It is not humanity. It is not the heavens. It is not the higher selves. It is not hell. Though it is the source of all of these - and utterly non-judgemental of them all as a literal undivided whole.


I believe Ramana was single and never married. Yet, many other gurus like Nisargadatta, Adayshanti, are married and likely have/had sex with their wives. Meaning, Adya likely still desires his wife on some level. Yet, Adya is looked at as an enlightened guru. Not to imply that these people are any kind of standards to be held to, but even Eckhart Tolle has a wife and likely some desire (even if it's rather faint) for his wife.

I just don't agree that desire has to equal craving. I desired a cup of coffee this morning. Does that mean I craved coffee? I desired a snack of sugar over the weekend. Does that mean I was craving for sugar? What about the desire to eat in general when you're hungry? Or the desire to have any kind of goals with your life? I mean.....desire is EVERY aspect of our human experience because our human bodies are needy. They need things. That doesn't mean that WE are needy. But, we are experiencing through these bodies and in this human experience, desire is everywhere especially when we interact with life.

So, Jack, I bring to you the same question that I brought to Fore. :D

Pro-creation requires sexual desire. To be free of all desires means essentially to abstain from sex. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that and actually, I am kind of doing it myself right now :lol:. I'm holding off any kind of romantic relationship because I actually feel it is a hindrance right now to my spiritual growth.

But, how do we resolve the simple fact (and in this case, it is a fact) that sexual desire is needed for pro-creation. Meaning, if all desire is a hindrance to spiritual growth, then how is it that the most basic form of creation in the physical sense.....sex.....requires desire?

I'd love to hear your opinion on this.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:13 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Hi David, I think you meant to reference Zen there instead of me. No worries.


Oops, sorry. Thanks to Zen. :D
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:32 am

Enlightened2B wrote:I don't disagree with you, but I would say there is most certainly a Self. I don't really like the term emptiness because I feel that what we are is so 'Full' and not empty. Granted not the self we believe ourselves to be via thought, but an Eternal Self where all is connected when thought stops. My own experiences......


Language is a woefully limited form of communication. Let us simply agree that there is in us a universal one consciousness? :)

Enlightened2B wrote:I just don't agree that desire has to equal craving. I desired a cup of coffee this morning. Does that mean I craved coffee? I desired a snack of sugar over the weekend. Does that mean I was craving for sugar? What about the desire to eat in general when you're hungry? Or the desire to have any kind of goals with your life? I mean.....desire is EVERY aspect of our human experience because our human bodies are needy. They need things. That doesn't mean that WE are needy. But, we are experiencing through these bodies and in this human experience, desire is everywhere especially when we interact with life.


The body has needs. We are hormonal creatures and some of those hormones motivate us to do stuff, such as hunger, thirst, tiredness, and yes, sexual desire. The act of procreation isn't strictly necessary for my own survival, as I'm already born, but it is necessary for the survival of the species. It's also really enjoyable. :lol:
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:56 pm

DavidB wrote:Oops, sorry. Thanks to Zen. :D


:P
User avatar
EnterZenFromThere
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:55 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:An assumption it may be, but it feels very likely for me. But, that's not why I referenced it. It was just a phrase I was using and nothing more, in reference to what full enlightenment might be, as you described in your last post (with no desires and no fears) as that would seemingly take multiple lifetimes to finally get to the root of all of our conditioning.


I agree about multiple lifetimes. However, the most progress is made when bringing awareness into the non-judgement of Now. Contemplating the possibilities of prior or future lifetimes is stepping outside the Now. These contemplations likely provide benefit, but, in my experience, not as much as non-judgemental awareness Now. I think it's a point that's worth emphasising as we move beyond beliefs that we are contained human entities into the belief we are multi-dimensional entities. The multi-dimensional aspects of us can be very alluring and distracting - whether we are drawn to alternate human lifetime experiences or higher dimensional manifestations of us. To give an example from my own experience, I was in a lucid dream recently and was visited by a being that seemed to me to be made of pure light. It radiated love and peace. It said nothing - it was simply peaceful radiant light shaped similar to a human. It took me by the hands and lifted me into a higher plane. It held my gaze and hands while radiating peace into my being. I felt the burden of my suffering and doubts leave me and calm serenity take it's place. It was deeply moving. After an unknown amount of time and journeying it left to return to a higher plane. It left me in the company of some beings that were higher than human but less than it (in terms of relative vibrational frequency). These beings took me to places within their realm to carry out various actions for the good of creation. However, I was distressed and distracted. I kept looking to the place I had last seen the higher being. I kept hoping it would return. I kept asking the others when it would come back. They replied that it had gone and that it was ok we were going to do our tasks here now. I couldn't let go and my distress continued until I was unable to carry out these tasks (I'm being a little vague here as I'm not entirely sure what we were doing - from my point of view we were walking down a rain soaked city street to collect a Chinese take away to deliver to another part of town...though that obviously wasn't the whole story...). In the end I had to return to my body. The frustration carried over into my waking experience - suffering.

I hope you don't mind me going on a little tangent here as I feel I need to explain why I see things the way I do. Why emptiness and non-attachment are important and why multi-dimensional experiences can be a trap to spiritual advancement.

My experience with higher entities is not all love and clear sailing. I create many difficulties for myself through my desire to hold onto and repeat these experiences. (Here I mean desire as a craving to alter the Now in order to create what is perceived by my limited human aspect to be an experience more favourable than the Now. This is different to personal preference - which is the vibratory nature of my humanity - which can freely operate within the Present without the tyranny of craving to have desires and not have fears). So - higher experiences can lead to desire leading to suffering. So - higher experiences are not, in and of themselves, lasting peace - even though they are pleasurable experiences. You could say - to desire the heavens is to live in hell. The lesson of Lucifer. This is just as true for higher experiences as it is for typical day to day human experiences. So you don't need to have higher experiences to learn these lessons - everyone experiences them all the time.

The higher realms aren't harmful in and of themselves. Indeed, they are a place where much learning can take place. But this learning isn't about how to maintain ourselves within higher states. Such a thing is not possible through attachment to these states. By attaching ourselves to these states (which means identifying with these vibrational realities e.g. saying "I am the Light" or "I am my Higher Self") we are creating tension within our vibration. This is because vibrational reality (all experienced realities - from hell, to earth, to heaven etc.) is, by it's nature, constant change. All vibrations are in a constant state of change - all experience is in a constant state of change. Anything that changes will continue to change. Therefore, attaching ourselves to any aspect of experience confines us to that as our identity. If we believe that this identity must be fixed, we are forced into the position where the nature of vibration (change) contradicts/opposes our perception of ourself (non-change). Now this isn't to say that our higher self isn't an expansive, radiant being of loving light. Merely, that the light that it is, is change. Attachment to anything in a state of change will lead to suffering as the attachment will be threatened by the changing nature of vibration. Spiritual advancement isn't about attaching to higher realms through identification with them - it's about something far deeper, far purer, infinitely more and infinitely less.

When you say you believe self is full and not empty I can appreciate where you are coming from. However, I feel your dislike of emptiness comes from a misunderstanding of what emptiness means. Emptiness is infinite creative potential. By having no properties, emptiness has the potential to have any property - just as a blank canvas has the potential to become any painting. If you filled the canvas with paint - where is the potential? What can you paint if you have already filled the canvas? You can't paint anything. You have no creative potential. Fullness, from this perspective, would mean the end of creativity. The stagnation of reality.

Emptiness is beyond vibration - it is the Source - it is God - it is Spirit - it is The Self - The Tao - Christ - Pure Consciousness. It has no properties. Yet it exists. It is nothing - yet it is the creative essence of everything. Though vibrational entities may seem separate - every single vibration is united within emptiness. Therefore, all vibrations are a literal and undivided Oneness - governed by the supreme intelligence of the benevelent nothingness that experiences the rise and fall of all vibrational experiences - while being utterly unchanged by the experiences it is aware of.

This pure awareness - this emptiness - is the True Nature of all things. It is True because it does not change. It is only ever the unending peace of itself - free from the ups and downs of vibration (yet the source of all ups and downs of vibration). This emptiness is who you really are. Who I really am. These forms we are currently identified with are fleeting vibrations. They are us in a sense - in the sense of our temporary vibrational selves. They are not the True and Unchanging Self that we are when all other vibrations cease to be.

Currently, the vast majority of humans are not aware of their True Nature (myself included). This is why humanity suffers - our suffering is proportional to our distance from the benevlent, unconditional love of emptiness. We are distanced by the degree to which we identify with vibration - with our experiences. Not only our human vibration - but ALL vibration - including the hells and the heavens. Through non-judgemental awareness of the experiences we live Now we are able to detach our sense of identity from these vibrating forms. Through a gradual progression we are able to ascend through the vibrational dimensions and, if we are able to be aware enough and detached enough - transcend vibration and become pure awareness - emptiness. As pure awareness is literally every single vibration - One who united fully with emptiness would literally become all vibration as well. They would literally become God - which is the True Nature of all beings - but obscured temporarily through our attachments. The only lasting peace is in directly abiding as emptiness / God / Source - as this is the only aspect of creation that does not change. The only true peace is utter unchangingness. This is the goal of all life - to become God through the progressive non-judgmental awareness of ascension through vibration.

I had not considered emptiness for a long time. I felt that the higher vibrational realities were the place to find peace. My experiences there combined with my conversations with Fore have changed my focus. I consider Fore to be someone who has genuinely directly experienced the emptiness of God - though he says he still has further to go on his spiritual journey. I see his benevolence and wisdom to be deep. I resisted him at first - my beliefs about my place within creation were strong. But they have been subsiding more and more over these last couple of weeks. Through non-judgmental awareness of the experiences arising within the Present I feel much cleaner and less tense than I had before. Remarkably so. With this continued focus on thoughtless non-judgemental awareness I am confident in my journey. Far more so than within the turbulence of hungering after higher realm experiences.

I need a break after letting all that come out. I hope it's helpful. We are literally the same One - all our suffering is shared - yours is mine - mine is yours. I hope we will all find the lasting peace that we are in Truth.
User avatar
EnterZenFromThere
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:34 pm

Thanks Jack for your very long reply. :D Granted, you expressed yourself in a lot of detail, you really didn't address anything I actually asked which was the main focus of my post. But, so it is.

Just a couple of quick points.

I very very much understand your perspective on attachment to higher vibrational states and I guess I never realized you were suffering so much from attachment to those vibrational states. Granted, I've never experienced them nor do I have an interest in attaching to higher vibrational states, your 'warning' is well heeded.

On the other hand, your experience is your experience. And while you might have seen yourself attaching to certain vibrational states as opposed to realizing your true nature when you channeled or went out of body, this is not the case for everyone who explores non-physically. Just like human experience, you don't have to become attached to everything, if you can gain the insight needed without attachment. I would hate to turn people away from such a complement to presence practice because of one person's experience. Not to say I've done it, but everyone's experience is different. Sounds to me, like it was becoming more of an addiction for you (from how you describe it) which then most certainly does become a problem. And I'm glad you've decided to focus on a simpler, more encompassing path. Totally makes sense to me.

Your definition of emptiness is exactly the same as mine. I don't like the term emptiness because of the nihilistic way it's been approached in some neo-advaita circles. No, I don't see life as 'full' meaning lack of potential. That's perhaps one way to see it. I, on the other hand, see it as 'full of life' or 'full of potential/love'. That's why I like the term fullness better. There's quite a difference. Emptiness to me, has always appeared as though life is or our nature is inherently empty and I just get a nihilistic vibe with that. Regardless, it's completely a matter of semantics and not worth delving further into because you, David and I and many others are all referring to the same thing clearly.

I had not considered emptiness for a long time. I felt that the higher vibrational realities were the place to find peace. My experiences there combined with my conversations with Fore have changed my focus. I consider Fore to be someone who has genuinely directly experienced the emptiness of God - though he says he still has further to go on his spiritual journey. I see his benevolence and wisdom to be deep. I resisted him at first - my beliefs about my place within creation were strong. But they have been subsiding more and more over these last couple of weeks. Through non-judgmental awareness of the experiences arising within the Present I feel much cleaner and less tense than I had before. Remarkably so. With this continued focus on thoughtless non-judgemental awareness I am confident in my journey. Far more so than within the turbulence of hungering after higher realm experiences.


Again, Sounds like you were kind of attached to those vibrational realities in thinking they were the 'be all, end all' and that's something I've never believed. I think the non-physical exploration can complement a practice of presence if you're not attaching to those experiences. Or not.

I also suggest you're doing here exactly what you're trying not to do, by attaching one person to a particular image. Instead, Fore's recommendation (amidst my own resistance) has been thrown in my face as a sign that I, too, need to be focused on presence. And I appreciated Fore for that recommendation. However, Fore's posts are filled with his own dogmatism that has been on this board for quite some time and for someone with great wisdom, embracing a perspective that does not match his, has been quite a problem for him which is unlikely the sign of someone more enlightened.

True Wisdom embraces and does not limit, even if the perspective disagrees. Fore makes some good points on this forum.It's clearly not black and white. I've found much positive with Fore based on his own experiences and some of his recommendations, but also much limitation from Fore.

But Fore's own insistence on his own perspective, while claiming anyone who disagrees to be 'confused', is a sign of limitation to me and a sign that one has attached to a particular spiritual belief as 'utter truth' and then dogmatically, unlovingly projecting that by claiming anyone who disagrees with his view on 'sexuality being an impurity' to be 'confused'. It's spiritual dogma. Not to mention....making any part of our experience an enemy (by calling sexual desire an impurity), in the first place, for reasons of (breaking the re-incarnation cycle, which no human can possibly know) sounds more to me like a limited understanding of why we're here in the first place again.....based again on .... some spiritual teaching that one has attached to dogmatically. Fore has posted much since he came on this board in Eastern dialect in regards to statements such as (7 births) and many references to eastern terminology which he gained from studying vipassana philosophy. Nothing wrong with that, but when you take this stuff as utter truths (as I used to do with traditional Vedanta), it becomes just more limitation and more dogma. Again, It's not black and white. If you agree with a message, then.....take it and explore it.

Thanks for sharing Jack.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:16 am

I'll just jump in here and add a few observations of my own. :D

I came to seeking truth from the emptiness end of the spiritual spectrum. My panic attacks were profoundly existential in nature, they used to obliterate my perceptions of reality and completely annihilate any comfort I may have had in it. Everything would collapse into an abyss of total unadulterated fear and confusion. During these experiences, I felt my mind was being ripped apart and replaced by a living hell. Gut-wrenching terror and confusion beyond words can describe or imagination. They felt like they would last for an eternity, but fortunately they never did.

So seeking for me became a desperate attempt to find a way out of pain and suffering. These panic episodes consequently, thrust me into an awareness of annihilation, an awareness of emptiness. My conscious awareness at the time though, being young, stupid, and completely naive, I had absolutely no way of knowing what I was experiencing, so the experience was extremely frightening, terrifying and negative. But it was the kick in the backside, the motivation I needed to ask all of the big questions about the human condition and the nature of reality, and a driving desire to find out the answers, the truth.

So for me at least, the question of emptiness is one I am very familiar with. It was the emptiness that beckoned me to awaken. I have a fondness for the emptiness, I now find the emptiness to be comforting, peaceful, serene, and still. It took me a long time however, to come to realize that the emptiness was also the fullness. They are one and the same. :)
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Shanti777 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:26 pm

It's interesting to see such a long and deep discussion here that has little to do with my original post and this thread, and has pretty much hijacked it.

That's ok.

As to David's reply to my recent post - once again, you have missed my point completely. Whether you say "you misunderstood"or "you seem to have misunderstood" or "you appear to have misunderstood" - this is still a judgment that the other person's view is wrong according to YOUR standards/understanding/reality. Ie I am right and you are wrong as long as your view is different than mine.

How can you claim the ownership of the "only true" reality? :lol:
change your mind - change your life!
www.quantummind.com.au
Shanti777
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 2:26 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:53 am

shanti said: As to David's reply to my recent post - once again, you have missed my point completely. Whether you say "you misunderstood"or "you seem to have misunderstood" or "you appear to have misunderstood" - this is still a judgment that the other person's view is wrong according to YOUR standards/understanding/reality. Ie I am right and you are wrong as long as your view is different than mine.


Don Miguel Ruiz suggests that we all do this - each 'head' is like a world, we all live in our own world.

I disagree that ET doesn't make suggestions on moving into our futures awarely & mindfully. Check out the section on Awakened Being in ANE. Once we've figured out resistances to what is & decided whether accepting, changing or removing oneself from the situation is the most sane (awake, aware, within your capacity) response then one can stop the insanity of creating unnecessary suffering for ourselves and others.

It's amazing how much time we actually spend doing that!! Once one recognises the domain of the ego in action - 'creating an enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a thing, person or situation' one can go ... oh, that again :wink: select accept, change or remove in sanity.

From there (in that section) he notes that one is able to be in awakened states of acceptance, enjoyment (pouring one's own joy into....) and/or enthusiasm.

One becomes the 'hole in the flute' through which creation energy flows AND we know it :D Interacting in and with it with joy.

Now enthusiasm is the powerful energy that doesn't just flow with what is, but enables us to move and guides us, supports us, within what is, to wherever (and with acceptance & enjoyment ...how) we want to go.
ET speaks of this being the meeting of 'inner purpose' - knowing who we really are, and 'outer purpose' - a vision, a goal... this is where enthusiasm arises. He describes it as 'riding the wave' - and you - without making enemy, obstacle or means to an end, can jump onto or off of any wave of creation energy you like.

It does however still happen NOW. Every moment of it is what is ...now. If you are dreaming of some thing that dream is now and the experience of now is your dreaming. It's helpful if you are honest about the dreaminess (not reality of) this. For dreaminess lacks experiential nuances of balance that are sure to be known in the reality.

If you ride the waves that take you there the riding is still now, and the arriving is still now and the leaving of is still now. What is not, in awareness, is 'suffering' in any stage of the journey - for that to happen one would have to have fallen out of presence or awakeness, and into ego - making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of and in moments along the way.

It also loses its sense of being personal for one know that one has merely joined with creation energy to experience the experience. One can hardly take all the credit, nor all blame for that which one is merely a participant in. It feels like love, gratitude & generosity combined.

ET suggests that enthusiasm & ego cannot coexist, (in the same moment) learning which energy is powering responses allows one to choose enthusiasm mindfully.

Enthusiasm & the ego cannot coexist. One implies the absence of the other. Enthusiasm knows where it is going, but at the same time is deeply at one with the present moment, the source of its aliveness, its joy, and its power.
Enthusiasm (my add... like love - the equilibrium of gratitude & generosity) 'wants' nothing because it lacks nothing.


So if one is 'wanting' without awareness, then one is creating a sense of 'lack'. That's an experience in itself - it's an experience not of enthusiasm, but of lack, of making what is in this present moment not 'enough'. So as this is not enthusiasm, or joy, or acceptance it can create unnecessary suffering because you'd be trying to create 'whatever' on your own, with and from an energy level of the ego - for which there is always lack.

ET: When you want to arrive at your goal more than you want to be doing what you're doing, you become stressed. The balance between enjoyment (pouring your joy into) and structural tension (your relationship to what is) is lost, and the latter has won - that is your resistance to what is has won.

Awakened doing is more like - this is this AND ....flow with higher energies within whatever is.

Sensing and wanting to alleviate lack at some future time is more hard work and an ego filled attachment to the mind perspective.
ET ANE: p305 All this implies that your goal or vision is then already a reality within you, on the level of mind and feeling. Enthusiasm is the power that transfers the mental blueprint into the physical dimension. That is the creative use of mind, and that is why there is no wanting involved. You cannot manifest what you want; you can only manifest what you already have. You may get what you want through hard work and stress but that is not the way of the new earth.


Shanti said:
And so - accept (ie don't deny) what is and quickly move on to change it if you don't want it - yes.

Surrender to what is including suffering and pain - never :) .

Sounds like a nice dream.

What about awareness & capacity?
What if you cannot change it?
Why 'quickly move on'? - sounds more like avoidance than acceptance.

Recognising when one is creating (unnecessary) suffering is one thing... avoiding suffering & pain that is often a valid part of 'what is', is to deny the growth that can be had in those experiences, whether we learn from them when they're small, or they grow ever bigger to get our attention.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
User avatar
smiileyjen101
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:13 pm

Thanks for the thoughtful reply jen, my reply to shanti is below. :wink:


Image
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Shanti777 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:38 am

David - you too.

Have a nice day.

I thought this board attracts only intelligent, spiritual and open minded people, who are actually able to engage in meaningful and curteous discussion.

I WAS WRONG. You are not in this category.

Talk your nonsense amongst yourselves. This is just a waste of my time.

I am out of here.
change your mind - change your life!
www.quantummind.com.au
Shanti777
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 2:26 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:18 pm

The attempt to create our desires often ends up creating a situation like this. I hope you learn the power of unconditional acceptance Shanti.
User avatar
EnterZenFromThere
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Baba Bozo » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:10 pm

DavidB wrote:Realization is probably the simplest thing you could ever do, which is why most people over look it, they over complicate it, over think it.

It is simply this, stop thinking.

When that little voice in the head stops yammering, stops incessantly commenting on absolutely everything, we realize that we are still completely conscious.


I agree we tend to dramatically over complicate what is in essence something very simple. The good news is that we are surrounded with very useful analogies in our daily life which can serve as teachers.

Some food is good, too much or too little food is bad.

Some water is good, too much or too little water is bad.

Some sleep is good, too much or too little sleep is bad.

Some sex is good, too much or too little sex is bad.

Some breathing is good, too much or too little breathing is bad.

Some exercise is good, too much or too little exercise is bad.

Some sunlight is good, too much or too little sunlight is bad.

And so on, which brings us to...

Some thought is good, too much or too little thought is bad.

Thought is just another mechanical element of the human body which needs to be managed day to day. Simple. Not always easy. But simple.

The problem with seeing thought as something simple is that then nobody can make a living talking about it. Simple leaves no room for someone to be an expert, an authority, a famous person.

The problem with seeing thought as something simple is that we can't then whip it up in to a glorious glamorous becoming story, the primary goal of most New Age readers and writers.

And so most of the time simple is discarded, and endless complexity is embraced.

One key to keeping this simple could be to shift the focus from the content of thought to the nature of thought.

Krishnamurti used to say thought is inherently divisive, just as water is inherently wet and fire is inherently hot.

If we see that division arises from the medium of thought itself, then it becomes clear that all thought content will be divisive in nature. Spiritual thought, erotic thought, political thought, economic thought, artistic thought, all fundamentally the same, because they're all made of the same inherently divisive medium.

Seeing that the problem of division arises from the medium of thought itself, and not from particular thought content, tends to pull the rug out from under a quest for the correct philosophy or understanding etc. Once that quest recedes, the need for authority figures, teachers and so on does too.

We can't just "stop thinking" of course, as thinking is essential to human life.

And so our only choice is to manage thought, just as we do with food, water, sleep, exercise, sex etc. A mechanical process of the human body, managed with simple mechanical means.

It's just a routine day to day affair, no big deal, nothing particularly special, just another one of the house cleaning jobs required of us as humans.
User avatar
Baba Bozo
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 12:57 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:38 am

Yes indeed Baba, what you have said makes good sense, thank you for your insightfulness. :)
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:01 am

I apologize if my pictorial reply to Shanti was perceived as potentially divisive or insensitive.

I felt that the discussion with Shanti had become fruitless. I felt that continuing intelligent discussion had unfortunately become unattainable, as any attempt to point out potential errors in perception were met with what I perceived as defensiveness and accusation. I felt that any further attempts to point out potential errors in perception would only result in deepening potential errors, further defensiveness and further accusation.

I am more than willing to entertain the fact that I often make mistakes and blunders, get things wrong and misperceive what others have attempted to convey. I'm only human and I sure do mess things up from time to time, just ask my Mrs. :D

In human interaction, we sometimes inadvertently create friction, but of course I'm here to discuss ideas, concepts and experiences in an attempt to create a deeper understanding of all those things mystical, and potentially maybe even helping others deeper their understanding too. My hope is that we can all discuss these things with an openness to learning and discovery and in the process develop a long lasting state of peace and oneness. :)
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Pain and Suffering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest