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Fear of hell

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:31 pm
by anonymousUser
How to deal with the fear of hell?

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:56 am
by Webwanderer
anonymousUser wrote:How to deal with the fear of hell?

What is it you fear? What I'm asking is to describe the hell you are afraid of. Is it the scriptural hell, or a self-created one, or something else entirely? The first step is to be clear on what you are afraid of. Are you afraid of where you think you may be going, or afraid of accountability of where you've been? Are you judging your past? Or just unsure of your basic goodness? I will tell you this: The truth will make you free.

WW

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:57 am
by Onceler
Fear = hell

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:05 pm
by anonymousUser
Webwanderer wrote:What is it you fear? What I'm asking is to describe the hell you are afraid of. Is it the scriptural hell, or a self-created one, or something else entirely?
I'm not sure if I see it clearly enough. What comes to me right now is this: Being rejected by God after death; rejecting God after death; being put in (or choosing) a place of deprivation of happiness after death; being put in (or choosing) a place of suffering/pain after death.
Webwanderer wrote:The first step is to be clear on what you are afraid of. Are you afraid of where you think you may be going,
Yes.
Webwanderer wrote:or afraid of accountability of where you've been?
Yes
Webwanderer wrote:Are you judging your past?
In that context: I don't know. Maybe.
Webwanderer wrote:Or just unsure of your basic goodness?
I don't know. Maybe.

I'm probably afraid that because of my past deeds I will be judged negatively or I will make a bad choice after death (and reject God for example because of feeling resentment towards Him).

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:38 pm
by Webwanderer
anonymousUser wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:What is it you fear? What I'm asking is to describe the hell you are afraid of. Is it the scriptural hell, or a self-created one, or something else entirely?
I'm not sure if I see it clearly enough. What comes to me right now is this: Being rejected by God after death; rejecting God after death; being put in (or choosing) a place of deprivation of happiness after death; being put in (or choosing) a place of suffering/pain after death.

Is it even possible to be rejected by God? What evidence do you have of this? If God is 'All That Is', doesn't that include you and everyone else? Doesn't that make you an actual part of God that is unique in all the universe? Is there another you quite like you? If you were God, unconditionally loving, would you condemn a part of yourself for exploring an uncertain world with endlessly difficult challenges that try the very best humans walking the earth?

Did you know that God will never forgive you??? It's true. Forgiveness is a human necessity. You see, God never forgives because God never condemns. Therefore there is no place in God's unconditionally loving nature for a need for forgiveness. Humans need to forgive, not because it's some gift to another person who may have 'wronged' the potential forgiver. But because forgiveness frees the forgiver from his own condemning judgment. It's our own judgment that condemns us to pain, whether directed at another or towards our selves.

Webwanderer wrote:Are you judging your past?
In that context: I don't know. Maybe.

It's quite common to regret some of the things we do. They never go away, and unless and until seen in the light of a greater understanding our past sins can dog us unmercifully. That's why it's important to realize that mistakes are just part of the human experience and it's okay. It's part of a greater plan moving towards the evolution of consciousness and being. Those mistakes are valuable. And you are valuable in how you relate to them. There is no wrong way, there's only options.

Did you know that the word 'sin' comes from an old archery term that means 'off the mark'? Not wrong, but simply off of center. Consider that a bit. What is 'center' when it comes to our human experience? Most awakened souls would tell you that to be centered is to be aligned with our true nature, our Soul self, our Essence. And, I would suggest, when one is aligned, one is generally joyful and happy and at peace with the world and our own self, including the knowledge of our past 'sins'. Just to recognize them as sins, as off the mark, is a step toward our realignment with the Love that is fundamental to what we are. Give yourself a break. You are the only who can that matters.

Webwanderer wrote:Or just unsure of your basic goodness?
I don't know. Maybe.

If you are unsure of you basic goodness then you don't really know you own true nature - at least in the mental construct of fear and judgment that you are currently living in. Maybe it's time to feel it out. I say 'feel' it out because that is the only way you will actually know it. There are lots of resources available to get pointed in the right direction (I like that. 'Right' direction because that's what we want, to be right on our true nature.) But pointers and logic will take you only so far. It's through feeling-experience that we know. Follow what feels right and it will eventually take you home - home to alignment with your true nature - your God essence self.

I'm probably afraid that because of my past deeds I will be judged negatively or I will make a bad choice after death (and reject God for example because of feeling resentment towards Him).

The choices you make after death will be made with an understanding that is incomprehensible to your current state of being. One thing that you will know then is that hell is only a place of imagination born of the fear intrained in our human thought patterns. An unconditionally loving God creates no such place. That said, God gave us the gift of freedom. We are so free that we can imagine such a place as hell and engender it with enough fear based energy to experience it as real, even though it be just a dream. Such an experience won't last however. The moment one cries out for help, wise and loving beings come to the rescue to help us out of our self made enclosures.

You're safe. You're loved. You are an explorer of consciousness temporarily in a human environment. Challenges are part of it. Your life here is your gift of continuing evolution to All of Conscious Being and the very God that is the Essence of us all. Rejoice. Have fun. You deserve it. We all do.

WW

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:58 pm
by anonymousUser
I wish you were right. But what if you are wrong?

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:38 pm
by Webwanderer
anonymousUser wrote:I wish you were right. But what if you are wrong?

Well, it wouldn't be wise to take my word for it. Do your own investigation. There is a whole section in this forum on what lies beyond the human physical experience. It's full of links to useful resources.

viewforum.php?f=47

There are some very good websites on NDE's and OBE's. Here's a couple very good ones:

http://www.near-death.com/
http://iands.org/ndes/about-ndes.html

There are also tons of books and YouTube videos. Take a close look at the evidence.

There's also OBE's. Thomas Campbell is both a physicist and out of body traveler. He's quite an interesting guy. Lots of books and videos from him. Here's his YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44/videos

But what if you are wrong?

While we're doing the 'what if' game, consider this: What if your very fear and focus of attention is creating your own future experience? What if you are creating your own hell experience?

Here's what I think would be important to God. Integrity. Do you genuinely want to do what's right? Do you honestly want to know and live by the truth - no matter where your search leads? Are you willing to give up what you believe to find and live God's truth regardless of what it is? Make a pact with God that you will surrender your beliefs to where a genuine and deeply honest search leads? Really, what God could ask more of you?

If you decide to search, and I guessing that's part of why you came to this forum, don't believe anything you read or hear. But don't just reject it without cause either. What doesn't ring true, set aside. It may become clearer later on when more connections are made. Hold all resources to the same standard of integrity. Trust completely only your own internal guidance. Feel your way to clarity. Your feeling nature is the true path to awakening. Always be willing to move on to a greater understanding. And appreciate life always. Appreciation (not gratitude) in all things will set your consciousness in the best state for alignment with your own greater being. Enjoy life. Have fun. Don't worry.

WW

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:10 am
by anonymousUser
Isn't that gnosticism? What about my religion? What about my church?

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:38 am
by Webwanderer
anonymousUser wrote:Isn't that gnosticism?

I don't know. I don't follow it directly. Does Gnosticism value a direct relationship with truth without intermediaries telling me what to believe?

What about my religion? What about my church?

If you feel they serve you best then hang on to them. It you trust them more than your own inner guidance, then follow them. It's your choice and whatever you do will be fine in the long run. But remember, it's you who are concerned about hell. Where does that concern originate? It serves most churches for their members to believe in hell. It keeps them close and donating.

WW

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:39 am
by anonymousUser
Webwanderer wrote:
anonymousUser wrote:Isn't that gnosticism?

I don't know. I don't follow it directly. Does Gnosticism value a direct relationship with truth without intermediaries telling me what to believe?
My association is about following one's own feelings/intuition more than anything else.

Webwanderer wrote:
What about my religion? What about my church?
If you feel they serve you best then hang on to them.
It's not that simple. If I knew for sure they are wrong and there is no hell after death, I would be relieved. I would continue to take benefits from them, but they wouldn't be limiting me anymore.

Webwanderer wrote:It you trust them more than your own inner guidance, then follow them.
I don't know. I don't know what is more trustworthy - my "inner guidance" or my religion and church. How can I tell? Deep inside something might tell me that I should trust what I feel deep inside, but my church would say that I should follow my church. Who am I to know better than billions of people and millions of religious authorities? (With all due respect to Eckhart Tolle & other spiritual teachers and their followers - they are outnumbered ;]) Plus my feelings might not be completely clear, there might be some confusion there. Plus Pascal's Wager variation (If I don't trust my church - I might go to hell and be unhappy for eternity; If I don't trust my "inner guidance" I might be unhappy but "only" for several dozen of years.).

Webwanderer wrote:It's your choice
Yes, unfortunately (?) it is. Sometimes I probably wish I wouldn't even exist; then I wouldn't have to make any choices whatsoever.
Webwanderer wrote: and whatever you do will be fine in the long run.
I guess my church wouldnt agree with that.

Webwanderer wrote: But remember, it's you who are concerned about hell. Where does that concern originate? It serves most churches for their members to believe in hell. It keeps them close and donating.
Yes, I know that. Most probably you are right that my fear of hell originated because of my religion (however it might be also somewhat connected to my psyche - fear of rejection, personality of my father, etc.). I have had it since I was a little child. There were times I tried to be an atheist like half of my family, but I couldn't make it. I've always returned because of anxiety and my own Pascal's Wager. Because what if they are really right? What am I going to lose by following them and trusting them? Only happiness and freedom for several dozen of years, which is nothing compared to eternity.

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:49 am
by Webwanderer
anonymousUser wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:
anonymousUser wrote:
Isn't that gnosticism?

I don't know. I don't follow it directly. Does Gnosticism value a direct relationship with truth without intermediaries telling me what to believe?

My association is about following one's own feelings/intuition more than anything else.

While I support and encourage following one's own feelings when it comes to discerning truth, that's not to exclude anything else. Information from any number of sources is important. How something feels in consciousness is to be a kind of litmus test for the exploration of possibilities. We do it anyway, but a more conscious intent brings clarity over time with familiarity of how truth feels.

It's not that simple. If I knew for sure they are wrong and there is no hell after death, I would be relieved. I would continue to take benefits from them, but they wouldn't be limiting me anymore.

Certainty is a high standard. If only life was so cooperative. It's rare that enlightenment comes in a flash. It's more common that clarity comes over time with a focus on the subject of interest. Of course there are ah-ha moments or flashes of insight, but there is always more to perceive. Greater clarity is available on the matter of the death experience and the life beyond. It depends greatly on one's willingness to investigate.

Who am I to know better than billions of people and millions of religious authorities? (With all due respect to Eckhart Tolle & other spiritual teachers and their followers - they are outnumbered ;])

Who are you? I would suggest that you are the only one that matters when it comes to your own experience. Accept responsibility for you own being, or try to give it to someone else. There are plenty of takers willing to tell you how to be.

Consider also that there are billions of people who believe that their religion is right and the others are wrong. There are sects and divisions within all the great religions that believe there division is correct and the others are wrong. There are individual church groups that believe their interpretations are more correct than the church group down the street. Even among individual members there are often significant differences in what is believed to be true.

So what then is the real truth and who do you trust that you can be certain is giving you that truth. Are you just lucky that the church you chose knows the truth better than all the others? Can everyone be that lucky? You have a responsibility that you cannot give away. Life just doesn't work that way. In life you have a responsibility that is reflected in your very experience through the beliefs you hold. If you don't like your experience, examine your beliefs. Therein lies a real source of revelation.

WW

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:03 pm
by anonymousUser
Sometimes I'm not sure what feels more "right".
Sometimes I "regret" (resent) the consequences of what felt more "right" (or seemed to feel more "right") at the moment (Why? Because they create anxiety in me).
My worst beliefs might be even hidden from me. It's hard to examine something you don't even know/see.

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:22 pm
by Webwanderer
anonymousUser wrote:Sometimes I'm not sure what feels more "right".
Sometimes I "regret" (resent) the consequences of what felt more "right" (or seemed to feel more "right") at the moment (Why? Because they create anxiety in me).
My worst beliefs might be even hidden from me. It's hard to examine something you don't even know/see.

It's rarely easy early on to discern genuine feelings of clarity over emotionally charged fears. We can be so very conflicted. But you don't have to make any decisions on your feelings, just relax and consider the very highest and most loving feelings you can imagine a loving creator might have.

If you were God what would you want for your children, for the life you create? There's no right or wrong here, it's only an exercise in perceiving the highest good you can imagine and then basking in the feeling of that good. Doing so brings a focus on a greater good into your consciousness. And like any focus of attention, over time it will deepen and become clearer. That deepening and clarifying will continue to be enhanced as long as you continue to give your attention to it.

It may seem to be fruitless at times, but for those who continue over time, considerable growth in perspective is inevitably recognized. It's certainly been that way for me. The way I see it, no matter how loving and wonderful I can imagine life eternal can be, it must be far greater than this human mind can conceive. This mind I perceive through is only a fraction of the greater mind of my true nature beyond this physical component.

Our existing beliefs, adopted since childhood, can be problematic. Trying to ferret them out can be more trouble than it's worth. If they come to the surface, which they often do, just recognize them as simply a belief that has been imposed on you by the circumstances of life and resolve to reconsider them in the light of a greater understanding. You don't have to cast them aside without cause, but you can recognize that most beliefs were imposed on us at an early age without our being fully informed. It they are indeed true, they will stand the test of honest scrutiny. If not true or as advertised, then we may find a long deserved freedom.

I would suggest that some of the anxiety you feel is because much of what you have been led to believe conflicts with a greater understanding your inner being knows well.

WW

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:27 am
by anonymousUser
Responsible = Guilty.

Webwanderer wrote:I would suggest that some of the anxiety you feel is because much of what you have been led to believe conflicts with a greater understanding your inner being knows well.
Yes.

Re: Fear of hell

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:50 pm
by anonymousUser
Webwanderer wrote:
But what if you are wrong?

While we're doing the 'what if' game, consider this: What if your very fear and focus of attention is creating your own future experience? What if you are creating your own hell experience?
Then I will suffer in my self-created hell, but only temporarily. However, if the Roman Catholich Church is right, then I might burn in hell forever.

Do you genuinely want to do what's right?
Yes. But I also want to do what makes me feel more free, peaceful and joyful.
Do you honestly want to know and live by the truth - no matter where your search leads?
Yes. But I also want to do what makes me feel more free, peaceful and joyful.
Really, what God could ask more of you?
Blind obedience to the Roman Catholic Church?
What doesn't ring true, set aside.
What doesn't "ring true" you say. What's the difference between "it feels true" and "I like the way it feels"?
Trust completely only your own internal guidance.
What if my "internal guidance" comes from Lucipher?