End Depression Now

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: End Depression Now

Postby Onceler » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:18 am

You're right, Sailing. It's tangential and inconsequential. Should be on another thread. I can't speak for other men, but my tangential way of seeing the world often gets in the way of reality. I'm working on it...

On the other hand, I don't understand half of what I read here and elsewhere, so welcome to the club.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby sailing » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:30 am

Hmmm, tan-gen-tial, where's my dictionary? :)
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:13 pm

'While it seems true that life has lessons for all scenarios, that's hardly reason to commit suicide in an effort to escape ones suffering with the rationalization that by doing so would be beneficial in terms of the lessons offered to both self and loved ones alike.'

If that's how you interpret my posting, dear Webwanderer, then you must somehow have missed the point I was trying to make entirely. With love - Aquarius
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby sailing » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:35 pm

Hi everyone, Re: depression

I've had some complications with the thyroid gland (causing crazy mood swings) and so am being forced into the hospital. Volunterily or hand-cuffs? I'm going today and don't know how long I'll be in. Anyway, if anyone is concerned that I've disappeared, thats where I'll be. I'll miss you.

Your sister, sailing
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:25 am

aquarius123esoteric wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:'While it seems true that life has lessons for all scenarios, that's hardly reason to commit suicide in an effort to escape ones suffering with the rationalization that by doing so would be beneficial in terms of the lessons offered to both self and loved ones alike.'


If that's how you interpret my posting, dear Webwanderer, then you must somehow have missed the point I was trying to make entirely. With love - Aquarius


Granted, it wouldn't be the first time I missed the point someone was trying to make, if that is indeed the case. Here again is a qoute from your earlier post:

The way I see it, the Great Spirit, the Father/Mother of all life, is the Highest authority over everything in the whole of Creation; it is the only one who has any true power. Nothing is beyond or outside Its will, therefore, anyone’s departure from Earth life cannot ever come about without Its consent; this applies to any kind of death, therefore also to all suicides...
I believe that, even in the case of suicide, the manner and the moment of our death are predestined, because they contain valuable lessons for the one who passes on, as well as for all who are left behind. Seeing that nothing in God’s Creation can ever be truly lost, in the final analysis, suicide is but another way of passing on.


It appears you are stating a "belief" that it is impossible, of ones own choice, to commit suicide. If such an act is a matter of predestination, does it not follow that all choices are predestined? And in addition, is it not then fundamentally the Great Spirit's choice, and ultimate responsibility, when anyone commits suicide? - That through that same predestination, the whole of life is somehow just a great puppet play? In this way (you seem to be saying), that it is just another of the Creator's methods of moving aspects of consciousness in and out of form.

Or could it be that the Father/Mother of all life gives consent to suicide in the same way as Its concent is given to rape and murder, war and hatred and the endless other blind destructions that beings who are lost in ego levy upon each other. Is it possible humanity exists within world of fundamental principles, that although one is free to make a wide lattitude of choices (concent) regardless of the pain some actions may generate, that there exists an essential cause and effect relationship governing the world of form - one that says we are responsible, by way of our own direct experience, for the energies and conditions we create?

Again, I concede that I may have misunderstood you completely. If that is indeed the case, please express your meaning as clearly as possible. Because as I read your post, it seems you are saying that suicide is little different than any other method of leaving this world. My concern is that one who is suffering a particurly painful bout of depression, albeit temporary, may take your post as spiritual license to forcibly leave this world. After all, if there are no consequences (possibly even benefits by way of lessons learned), and it's even Gods will, why not?
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:24 pm

Dear webwanderer – it that is the impression my posting created, I must offer you my most sincere and humble apologies for not having expressed myself more clearly. The point I was trying to make was exactly the opposite from the one you perceived. I hope to put things right by expressing more clearly where I stand with regard to depression and suicide. But, as suicide by now has reached epidemic proportions, I feel the need to do something more. I have therefore decided to open a new thread that is dedicated to this theme, in the hope that others may wish to add their contributions to it.

With love and light,
Aquarius
Last edited by aquarius123esoteric on Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

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Re: End Depression Now

Postby Slyder » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:53 pm

They are now saying antidepressants may have less effect than thought..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7263494.stm
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:45 pm

That doesn't surprise me one bit! It seems clear to me that the indication of this is that it's other ways and approaches we need to look for. What do you think? With love - Aquarius
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

Goethe
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby astaroth » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:08 pm

I'd like to add my own 2 cents, as well...

From my earliest age on I suffered from a feeling of extreme unworthiness. At my teenage years I became very self-centered to prove my own worth to myself - I was my hardest judge. Of course, I behaved very stupidly and everything became worse. After all, I also hated myself for hating myself and I thought about thinking about myself. Hell on earth.

It was that I came around Tolle and others like him that I found that there are many, many stories I repeatedly tell about myself, but - what an unbelievable, amazing wonder!!! - I am not a story! So I recognized the "I am" which is before and after the story, the silent witness. Looking right here, right now through my eyes I am what I am - no need for a story to explain me what I am. And I had always been that. I had just been too busy focussing on my story that I had completely overlooked the silence which is always behind the stories, behind the me - now!

I am sure, there are many very sad stories out there. But I found out that a story, no matter how sad it is, after all is just a story, nothing really personal in it. Thoughts are empty by their very nature. How can I be a bunch of thoughts? I began to see a bit more clearly my sad sript which I had believed in absolutely and which had made me play my sad, self-hating part.

What I am still confused about is guilt. I think it is very important to others, as well, because guilt keeps one entrapped in the past.

Even today I find myself in some situations behave some way and then everything starts again. When I find myself behaving a little bit arrogantly, for example, I hate myself extremely. I can still see that it is a story. But... somehow... the story... my part... that's what makes me acting. I can play my part with less seriousity, knowing to one place of truth, but it is still not a always a nice part to play.
Here comes in guilt. Who has done all the nasty stuff in the past? The sbutle feeling not to be a good person is what makes the stories sometimes become much more alivlely. The mind tells me: "You are not worth being in peace. You have done all these evil things. And you still do."
Seen from a outer perspective, I don't think I do "evil" things today. But there are still so many jdugments in the mind of the illusionary "me". May it be illusionary, it seems like it controls my body. So a "me" which thinks to be a very nasty person can only go on playing it's sad part on and on. Still suffering sometimes, but knowing the silence between two thoughts, knowing his part to be but his part, seeing his script less serious than before. But still suffering.

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...you might remember me from such educational films as "Zen for couch-potatoes - The wisdom of never doing anything" or "Buddha from da hood - Was he a brother?"
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby sailing » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:05 pm

For many, many years I have had suicidal thoughts. I didn't take them seriously as I knew I wouldn't act on them because I had a son who needed me. To be honest, I deliberately got pregnant during one of these episodes, so that I would have a reason to live. I know that sounds like a really awful way to bring a child into this world. I think I have forgiven myself for that (maybe not?) Anyway when he moved away and got married, I felt he didn't need me anymore. So when he was 25 yrs. old, I did attempt suicide. It was a serious attempt, but I was discovered by some City workers who called an ambulance and here I am, still alive and still living with the torment from my mind. All the stronger reason for me to work like hell to get out of my head.

A couple days ago, the suicidal thoughts came again. I recognized those old thought patterns within a few minutes, and thank God, I realized that they were not real. I quickly turned my attention inward. Focusing within, allowed me the space to separate myself from those thoughts instead of feeding them as I always have. It was a really safe place to be, in the stillness. Soon I became flooded with an indescribable feeling of power which after awhile turned into peace.

I am so grateful that Eckhart Tolle wrote the book The Power of Now, because I was saved from the hell I was in at that moment. I realize the practice has to continue or I will die.

Your Sister, Sailing
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby innerhike » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:40 am

Dear Sailing,

In regards to your above post, and in particular these words:

I realize the practice has to continue or I will die.


I say to you God Bless You for everything you are doing to keep yourself on the "right" side.

I have found that the painbody actually reduces in size over time, through practice. It is as if one is letting go of a lot of unconsciouness or darkness through meditation or any such practice of being in the Now. The more I am in the Now, the less I am in danger of going under. It is that simple.

People who have tremendous suffering also have a tremendous blessing, because they really want to be free of this suffering. PON is not a hobby for them, it is a way to save their life. This is the right way to treat PON and such teachings. This is not some self help book, some fad, this is one of the highest and most direct paths out of suffering that is out there.

If you can be in the NOW, or touch this place of inner peace or okayness, all you have to do is not leave it. Another way to look at it: bring yourself back to this center over and over no matter how many distractions, temptations or patterns arise. Now all I need to do is to follow my own advice... :)

best wishes,

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Re: End Depression Now

Postby sailing » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:30 am

Thank you, innerhike, for your response. If only I could stay there! I sometimes feel that I get too personal on the forum but I go ahead anyway because I need to express my real "life" experience. I also am more responsive to the posts of others who are talking directly from their own experience. Again I am grateful for Eckhart putting his experience into words and God Bless You All.

Your sister, sailing
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:55 pm

sailing wrote: If only I could stay there!


You may not yet be able to stay there (here), but because you now recognize what here is (the clear essence of being), you can return here again and again and again. Don't bother with the self-barbs for falling away back into thought, as the ego/mind so willingly does. Simply return to presence with a sense of gratitude that one has when returning home from a difficult jouney.

In time a tipping point will be reached when the Natural State will become...well, more natural.
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Re: End Depression Now

Postby innerhike » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:54 pm

Dear Sailing,

I agree with WebWanderer that in time the Now can become our natural state.

In my experience this is not an all or nothing proposition. Unlike Eckhart the majority of people who become established in the Now, will do so over time.

Every day I practice meditation or just sitting in silence with awareness so that I can remember this state when I get lost during my hustle and bustle.

The more I practice the less I lose this state.

So this is just a gentle reminder from a brother on the path that practice does make perfect.

much love,

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Re: End Depression Now

Postby sailing » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:47 am

Thanks for the responses. My, my, what a sad story I have. :D

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