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Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:24 pm
by Glycine
Kiki's story is very good indeed. This story is a more readable and enjoyable version of a Tibetan saying.
I'm sure you all know this saying, but I'm repeating it for "discussion purposes."
"If the problem can be solved,
there is no use worrying about it.
If it can't be solved,
worrying will do no good."
It seems to me that most people understand this very well. For example, almost nobody worries about being able to do something very simple, or about not being able to do something very difficult.
The anguish comes when people don't know if they can solve the problem or not.
Of course, worrying is no good in either case - but the issue generally is: "Should I solve the problem, or forget about it?"
The saying does not address the last question, so it ultimately comes down to "Don't worry, be happy!"

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:14 pm
by Jogihevi
Thanks everyone, I'll give you a report post-trip!

I guess the only way to overcome fear is to surrender to it. Like the song says 'tie yourself to the mast, my friend, and the storm will end.'

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:52 pm
by randomguy
Webwanderer wrote:Be willing to die.
Excellent and universally applicable too.

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:43 pm
by OneLove
I don't think anyone has any authority on death and the afterlife. We have no idea what that will be like. No one should really be telling you that it's a good thing. So don't be so willing to toss away your life my friend, it's probably more precious than most of us think.

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:49 pm
by Webwanderer
OneLove wrote:I don't think anyone has any authority on death and the afterlife. We have no idea what that will be like. No one should really be telling you that it's a good thing. So don't be so willing to toss away your life my friend, it's probably more precious than most of us think.
Well, you may have no idea what it's like, but can you fairly speak for anyone else? There is a mountain of evidence on life beyond the physical for anyone honestly willing to look for themselves. The point isn't to be in any hurry to leave the physical, but to make the most of the opportunities here. The first step is to get free of thought entrapment, which includes conceptual fears that restrict our experience. From there a genuine evolution of consciousness may begin.

WW

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:20 pm
by OneLove
Well, I don't see how you can appreciate your life if you feel that you can just easily throw it away at the drop of a hat. As for the mountain of evidence proving life after death: so what. That still doesn't give you the foggiest idea on weather its pleasant or pure hell. I'm not willing to go find out for the sake of argument but I'd be happy to go to the morgue and survey a couple of stiffs for you!

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:43 am
by Webwanderer
OneLove wrote:Well, I don't see how you can appreciate your life if you feel that you can just easily throw it away at the drop of a hat.
I don't disagree with that in principal, but that is not the point of discussion in this thread. I suggest you read it carefully and without a pre-decided bias. No one is suggesting anyone be flippant with their life.
As for the mountain of evidence proving life after death: so what. That still doesn't give you the foggiest idea on weather its pleasant or pure hell.
On the contrary, it does just that and more. But please, don't take my word for it. Look for yourself.
I'm not willing to go find out for the sake of argument but I'd be happy to go to the morgue and survey a couple of stiffs for you!
Please do, and let us know if you find anyone there.

WW

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:09 am
by OneLove
How could you say that the afterlife is positive? How could YOU, alive, breathing, thinking, believing, preaching, say what afterlife is like? How could you say that people can find out themselves without shotgunning they're brains out? How can you overstep your knowledge to such a gross extent?

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:35 pm
by randomguy
Hey OneLove,
I hear what you are saying regarding not knowing the afterlife. I don't know about death or afterlife except in the dream of knowing.

I like WW's statement, "Be willing to die". To me it works as a specific prescription to minimizing the fear of death in a situation that is out of our control and where death is possible (everywhere, really?).

I also interpret it as not recommending taking action to end life, but as a strongly worded way of saying let it go, let go of attachments to thoughts, experience, perception, viewpoints, memory, imagination, fear, etc.. As saying, let it come and let it go, be willing to let go of all we consider "life", the clinging to which seems to reduce clarity and perpetuate fear and desire.

There seems to be a sort of birth and death in each moment, perhaps a simultaneous arising and ending, always. Katie mentions dying to be reborn each moment.

The Nis said, "I am already dead." Did he let go of attachments to "life"? What is there to fear or cling to in this moment, now? Isn't death sort of the passing of the perceivable changing world? Could Self realization also entail a sort of death realization (that is, prior to the body gives up it's electricity)? What really dies outside of identity founded in attachment? Our bodies all fall down and turn to dust so it seems. Me, I don't believe my clutching to the experience of life will change when my body (and with it I imagine; the dream, perception, experience, and concsiousness) goes, or alter anything that I could possibly imagine was in control regarding that or anything else anyways. Just my interpretation though.

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:01 am
by Webwanderer
randomguy wrote: I also interpret it as not recommending taking action to end life, but as a strongly worded way of saying let it go, let go of attachments to thoughts, experience, perception, viewpoints, memory, imagination, fear, etc.. As saying, let it come and let it go, be willing to let go of all we consider "life", the clinging to which seems to reduce clarity and perpetuate fear and desire.
Nicely put randomguy.

OneLove wrote:How could you say that the afterlife is positive? How could YOU, alive, breathing, thinking, believing, preaching, say what afterlife is like? How could you say that people can find out themselves without shotgunning they're brains out? How can you overstep your knowledge to such a gross extent?
To the extent I may suggest that there is credible available information and evidence of life beyond the physical, I am able to do so because of the personal research I've done and the experiences I've had. This is only a "complete" mystery to those who have not made the effort to honestly look into it. Shotgunning one's brains out to discover the truth is not recommended however, as it tends to be a one way street that is not without consequenses. If you want to know more than you currently do, clear your mind and do some honest research. Arguing for a limited perspective, no matter how strongly, is unlikely to lead to a greater understanding.

WW

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:54 pm
by heidi
On worrying:
It's like paying interest on a loan you'll never take...

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:04 pm
by Jogihevi
Hello everyone

It's been a while since I visited this forum, but I thought I'd give you an update. First things first...I didn't get on the plane. Also recently, I had to take a two hour train journey but had a panic attack and got off before it left the station. Whilst I'm still able to live a 'normal' life (working, socialising...etc), but it's becoming clear that my anxieties are still present when it comes to travelling. The only way I'm able to travel long distances is by driving, and that still makes me a little anxious.

Could anyone offer any advice, particularly from a spiritual perspective? I think ultimately it's going to be a matter of willpower. I'm simply going to have to start facing the situations I fear even though every cell in my body seems to be screaming at me to run away.

I'm in a bit of a funk, as I don't want to be restricted in life anymore.

Cheers

JGHV

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:40 pm
by Marcel Franke
JGHV:
> Could anyone offer any advice, particularly from a spiritual perspective?

Perhaps celebrating the 13th of May 2010 might have a therapeutic effect ?

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:45 pm
by Jogihevi
Marcel Franke wrote:JGHV:
> Could anyone offer any advice, particularly from a spiritual perspective?

Perhaps celebrating the 13th of May 2010 might have a therapeutic effect ?
Sorry, I don't understand.

Re: Fear of Flying

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:54 pm
by Marcel Franke
> Sorry, I don't understand.

Ah, you, or someone else, will figure it out. ; - )

But seriously, what about training with glass elevators ?