My misconception on awakening.

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My misconception on awakening.

Postby SirNikalot » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:22 am

I still don't really have an entirely clear understanding of what awakening is or what it will do, but I think I'm starting to see that in this world of form, things will not be directly influenced by becoming more aware. Becoming more aware will improve the quality in which you deal with form, but the things that need to be done still need to be done.

I came into all of this with huge depression and anxiety. My life and relationships were a mess, and they still totally are, and I still can get totally anxious and depressed from time to time. I thought that by practicing Eckhart's practice and putting this stuff on hold, these problems would magically get better. I'm not saying that I am fully present all the time, but I have been totally living in a dream thinking that these things can get better without me directly facing them and trying to make them better. Basically, what I'm saying is I want to have good realtionships with friends (maybe new ones), I want to become fairly wealthy financially, I would love to have a lovely girlfriend, and I would like to do the things I want to do.

Of course, I think there's a safety net provided by spiritual awakening that allows you to not be emotionally ruined by failing in one of these wants, and that is truly a great thing. But I've fooled myself into thinking that I don't want these things in my life, and I think I've completely misconstrued the message, because wanting those things are meant to occur, I'M HUMAN!! But I think the things I listed in the previous paragraphs are the real things I want in this illusion of form, which I am in, so why not just roll with it and pursue those things? It seems like the awareness will come, with a different kind of effort, but making it into a primary goal will just starve myself of these forms that this body wants, and maybe my wants will change, I don't know. All I know is these wants of mine are meant to be pursued, while this Awakening, as some call it, does not need to be pursued, and shouldn't be thought of as one of my primary goals.

I remember Eckhart saying as human beings, there is a human component and a BEING component to life. A lot of the spiritual teachers like to talk about the BEING component a lot and I think that's how I've kind of come to deny my human side. What do you guys think of this?
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby Sighclone » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:44 am

While the ego is prominent (until age 30, according to Eckhart), its structures and desires and attachments and beliefs will continue to dominate. And by no means are they all worthless. Love, intimacy, security, health, competence and learning are all worthwhile, regardless of your spiritual evolution. It is the placing of absolute value on any of them, the absolute attachment to any of them that is the source of false hope and resulting suffering.

Eckhart says that these are all secondary purposes in life. He is a one-trick pony, really. But his trick is very cool. It is really the only trick. But before that step is fully realized, and while that awakening continues, there is no blame in pursuing other activities. The less true fulfillment you require of them, the less stress they will cause.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby SirNikalot » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:54 am

Sighclone wrote:While the ego is prominent (until age 30, according to Eckhart), its structures and desires and attachments and beliefs will continue to dominate. And by no means are they all worthless. Love, intimacy, security, health, competence and learning are all worthwhile, regardless of your spiritual evolution. It is the placing of absolute value on any of them, the absolute attachment to any of them that is the source of false hope and resulting suffering.

Eckhart says that these are all secondary purposes in life. He is a one-trick pony, really. But his trick is very cool. It is really the only trick. But before that step is fully realized, and while that awakening continues, there is no blame in pursuing other activities. The less true fulfillment you require of them, the less stress they will cause.

Andy


Thanks for being a real trooper Andy/sighclone, I mean, you somehow manage to keep reading my posts! hahahah :D

I've actually heard somewhere that self-esteem gets higher as we get older in age, there might be a correlation between the two.

I think I understand that concept of non-attachment, and it makes a lot of sense. I'm just thinking those feelings of attachment arise a lot for me, and trying to deny that and put up a false image for myself and for others is only keeping the attachment stronger, which I now realize is something Eckhart talks about a lot. I still find myself having trouble engaging in certain topics of conversation with others (social anxiety). I guess its important for me to work with where I am currently at, which may be complete and utter unconsciousness.
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby Sighclone » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:52 am

Sir nik - you are far from unconscious. Now your social crowd...well, that may well be a very different story. And your challenge is one we all face, even Eckhart, riding a bus or buying a latte. But we have these conditioned responses of our ego to "fall back on," in social situations where chatting about awareness is like describing "blue" to a blind man. Its is very possible to just 'go with the flow' so long as agreeing with really large egoic BS stories is required. There are many for whom there is little charm in any of this. If you had give a copy of PON to Eckhart Tolle (absent the first 25 pages, say) one month before his breakthrough, he would have probably tossed it aside.

Intellectual knowledge would have no traction with you if the real meaning did not resonate at a deeper level, which it clearly does for you. Allow it to develop at its own pace...every day will be incrementally better.

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby SirNikalot » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:47 am

Sighclone wrote:But we have these conditioned responses of our ego to "fall back on," in social situations where chatting about awareness is like describing "blue" to a blind man. Its is very possible to just 'go with the flow' so long as agreeing with really large egoic BS stories is required. There are many for whom there is little charm in any of this.
Andy


THANK YOU for telling me this. Freakin' gold this is. It really is like that and it is absolutely best to just "go with the flow" with the egoic BS people, a lot of people actually tend to do this actually in order to keep relationships, especially friendships alive I just realized. No need for me to be right or be perceived as right because its useless anyway, just go with the flow! gotcha!

I still feel like its important for myself to remind myself that its important to be human,I think its something that should be totally embraced and perhaps emphasized a little more in Tolle's books, but that's just me.

Perhaps you don't see it the same way I do, but my generation has often had the mentality of "You can do anything you want to do!!!" And so being brought up in that particular mind set has allowed me to put a lot of unhuman like expectations upon myself, starting to see and accept that I cant do anything I want to do is something very important to me.
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby Sighclone » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:01 pm

Sir Nik -

Boy am I sorry. I did mean to put a "not" in that sentence about really large egoic BS stories!!!

My point was that generally, in deeply unconscious public situations, you can just bump along not confronting every egoic outburst. BUT if someone is a real jerk, then you will need to step aside...not confront, just perhaps quietly disagree and leave, or just leave. It is not necessary to point out egoic behavior to everyone.

If you are not dwelling in unconditioned awareness, or unity consciousness 24/7, well, then that is where you are...and that reality should be accepted.

Sorry!!

Andy
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby dasaniwater » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:51 am

Sighclone wrote:While the ego is prominent (until age 30, according to Eckhart), its structures and desires and attachments and beliefs will continue to dominate. And by no means are they all worthless. Love, intimacy, security, health, competence and learning are all worthwhile, regardless of your spiritual evolution. It is the placing of absolute value on any of them, the absolute attachment to any of them that is the source of false hope and resulting suffering.

Eckhart says that these are all secondary purposes in life. He is a one-trick pony, really. But his trick is very cool. It is really the only trick. But before that step is fully realized, and while that awakening continues, there is no blame in pursuing other activities. The less true fulfillment you require of them, the less stress they will cause.

Andy


nice reply
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby spikyface » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:58 pm

Perhaps you don't see it the same way I do, but my generation has often had the mentality of "You can do anything you want to do!!!" And so being brought up in that particular mind set has allowed me to put a lot of unhuman like expectations upon myself


Let me offer a slightly different perspective from someone raised with the same mentality:

Even when you achieve those expectations and accomplish something no-one thought possible there's no guarantee you'll be happy

I achieved "success" relatively quickly in a few areas of my life, but I noticed each success left me feeling even more hollow, the pleasure of achievement became increasingly short-lived each time to the point where it could be measured in the space of hours or minutes

Then I started questioning whether whatever I was looking for existed in the external world and began on a path of self-inquiry

Osho explained this philosophy quite well but I can't remember a quote offhand, it goes something like this:

If you want to drink, then drink not in moderation but as much as you want, whenever you want
If you want to have sex, then have sex with whomever you want as often as you want
Every pleasurable act, completely exhaust your desire for it
Then come to spirituality and you will pursue it with no doubts that what you are seeking cannot be found elsewhere
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby alex » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:33 pm

SirNik, I dont think its a case of either or here. To deny your desires would definitely not be right. Being is simply bought into all the aspects of your life. When asking that lovely lady out, for example, instead of getting caught up in a web of thoughts about it all just BE there. Notice her eyes, how she talks.. be open to her. And while your not persuing any lovely ladies, just sitting quietly out on your patio BE there. Dont be getting caught up in rehashing past 'failures' or obsessing about future advances. Just notice the smells, the beautiful trees, the bird songs.. then notice whats being aware. Spend a little time feeling your presence.
Live your life to the absolute full but endeavor to do it as consciously as you can! For some reason people often get confused and believe that persuing the spiritual life means neglecting the outer. No no, its about balance. Just bring the BEing into your outter world. Life is to be LIVED, embrace it all and follow every dream you have.
You sound like your starting to understand this and thats great. Its wonderful to be able to think for yourself and not take every teaching as gospel.
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Re: My misconception on awakening.

Postby runstrails » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:23 pm

Great post, alex!

SirNik,
This balance is essential for me as well. The mind (intellect) is needed as a tool to function, for example, in the workplace. But when I find that I am too identified with mind, I simply withdraw attention from thought and bring it to the present moment. Appreciate the existence of what is around you, the beauty of what is happening in the moment, without judgment that it is good or bad. Sometimes, you might want to go even deeper and sit in silence, or go for a walk, to get in touch with that incredible peace of who you are, that sense of existence that you carry around with you all the time, but that gets obscured by thought. That peace will then be with you no matter what. This knowing or peace essentially takes away self-created suffering allowing life to be lived to its fullest and enjoyed everyday. Initially, there may be a lot of movement of attention between thoughts, presence and stillness, but eventually you will get this balance worked out.

You might benefit from reading Tim Freke's "How long is the now". He talks about the balance between being 'sirNik' and 'Being'. He terms this lucid living, where when you know the truth about what you are, your 'little me' life is lived within that knowledge.

Keep us posted!
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