Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby Natalie » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:34 am

I really don't think that Kae (correct me if I'm wrong, Kae) or I was in any way saying "by-pass".

You are right. You guys weren’t. I was relating my experience because I did that, mostly with anti-anxiety meds which are highly addictive for me. As a matter of fact, whenever my undetermined autoimmune condition flares up, I take wellbutrin to alleviate the fatigue, lack of energy and mind-fog, all signs of mild depression. Wellbutrin is an antidepressant, amongst other things.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby randomguy » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:45 am

Natalie wrote:the conductor kicked me out

I like that.
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tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby Kae » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:59 pm

Quinn wrote:
Natalie wrote:artificial ways of by-passing it, the greater obstacles.


I really don't think that Kae (correct me if I'm wrong, Kae) or I was in any way saying "by-pass". I don't think that anyone on this particular forum is interested solely in feeling better. There are plenty of other forums for that topic. But taking meds, or doing yoga, or seeking therapy can help some of us get to a place where the "story of me" can be addressed with some small speck of objectivity. Sometimes, just reading Tolle is not enough to open up that little bit of space needed.

Can medication be used as a by-pass? Sure. Can it also be used to regain enough footing to start some self-inquiry? I don't see why not.


What he said :D
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby Sufilight9 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:35 am

Hello, I just joined this forum at the suggestion of my mate, Enigma, and I am glad I did. :) Have been reading a few of the threads and this one caught my attention.

I also suffered from anxiety symptoms, meaning, I had insomnia for over 25 years, have mild panic attacks (can't imagine a full blown one!), and a general discomfort being on this planet. Its weird, I have been this way since I was a five years old, afraid of the unknown. Phil (Enigma) suggested one afternoon about a year ago, that I observe the panic, to not push it away, just be with it and see what happened. Sure enough, the feeling of panic arrived on that evening, while trying to fall asleep, and I didn't do anything, I knew it was just a feeling, not that something horrible was going to happen. When they recurred, I would simply watch it and it would go away very quickly. Nowadays, I get them but not as much, and for the first time in decades, I sleep very well, so well that I look forward to going to sleep which I hated to do in the past.

It is interesting how I was addressing the panic thingy by getting into observer mode and it healed the insomnia without my trying this time. I still have more work to do in releasing fears, but I am getting there!


Marie
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the most powerful transformational force of all."

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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:36 pm

The infamous Marie!!! Nice to meet you. :)

I still have more work to do in releasing fears, but I am getting there!


I find understanding fear to be an effective way to go beyond it. In a way, fear actually comes from love, albeit love for what you are not.

Good to have you here Marie. Tell phil i said Hi.

--jason
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby runstrails » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:08 pm

Welcome, Marie! Any friend of enigma's is a friend of ours :D

Your 'method' sounds very similar to the mc2 method which so many of us highly recommend on this forum. Give it a listen, if you want:

http://www.mc2method.com/listen/

I find that sometimes I can welcome genuinely uncomfortable feelings as much as comfortable ones. If I am 'become conscious' with uncomfortable feelings, I actually find them sort of enjoyable or delicious in a way! Afterall both kinds of feelings are essential aspects of our humanity. And why would we want to deny one part of our humanness :wink:
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:25 pm

Good stuff trails.

'become conscious' with uncomfortable feelings, I actually find them sort of enjoyable or delicious in a way!


Yes delicious and tasty. "New emotion" (ie energy which has not already been repressed) typically starts with a form of emotional elation, triggered by some form of self seeking, ie, emotionally identifying with an image of self from either past or future. This is a form of addiction in a way. The "look what I did, what i will do, who i am, how special i am, what so and so thinks about me, (add in your own mind's favorites "here") brings this energy into the body. Then this energy brings to life old thought patterns from the aura or energy field of the body. And eventually the positive self aggrandizing thinking turns into negative emotion, burning emotion, as the new emotion is transmuted by the old patterns. If you've experienced zero emotional pain in life, I imagine your ego could grow unchecked, because the old patterns would facilitate this. Haven't met one of those yet, but i have met a few candidates :lol:

Now if the emotion can be noticed at this "slight burn" stage, without the mind layering more emotion on top of it through negative storytelling, the emotional energy burns itself up. The warmth can actually be felt, and what is typically called emotional pain or grief becomes unnecessary, not to mention, depression, anxiety, negative self image, delusions, or however a given emotion would typically manifest in a given mind. Just noticing and allowing the energy to be allows this burning to happen, which uproots the source of self inflicted suffering. So, what came first, desire or fear? Desire did. Self seeking(seeking one's identity through a thought created image of self) causes fear, and gets layered on top of desire. This explains how desire can operate in an enightened mind without causing fear, or more pointedly, emotional energy.

In terms of the shift from emotional elation to burn: Ideally, the change in fragrance of the body is noticed, and the emotion is allowed to burn itself out, which likewise serves as a reminder to stop that self seeking business. Alternatively, the energy could attract other thoughts, negative thoughts, thoughts fueled by old patterns(which label certain emotions "bad"), which actually adds new energy on top of the emotion. This story telling is a form of repression, and gives life to the energy which is unconsciously avoided. Most call this suffering, or "emotionally tainted thinking". Its repression because the emotion gets buried by the old thought patterns which are designed to avoid certain feelings, which ironically enough, brings about more emotion, more burn, which will end up expressing itself through suffering in one form or another. This is why understanding old thought patterns, how desire and fear play in, the mind's escape patterns and defense mechanisms, can truly help a given mind transcend suffering. Of course what we are already transcends suffering, but tell that to someone who's suffering.

Typically old emotion plays into this equation, energy which already exists within the body. When that repression is there, the new energy merges with it, and the root cause of the emotion gets totally blurred, or even completely forgotten. This is when the mind is ripe for projection, which I will probably write a post on at some point in near future.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby runstrails » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:05 pm

Km,
I did not think that all this could be expressed in words. But your post has just done so eloquently. You've deconstructed the emotional merry-go-round so well. Thanks!

Of course what we are already transcends suffering, but tell that to someone who's suffering.

So true.
"Presence" can also be used as an unconscious mechanism to try to escape suffering or feeling bad. But it never works in the long run. It just leads to more and more seeking. As you say,
This is why understanding old thought patterns, how desire and fear play in, the mind's escape patterns and defense mechanisms, can truly help a given mind transcend suffering.

I totally agree.

Looking forward to hearing more on what you have to say on the matter.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:53 pm

Yo trails.

I did not think that all this could be expressed in words.


Ya know, I thought the same thing about the nature of a paradox. But enigma, hereinafter phil, took me to a deeper understanding. Man what I wouldnt give to write a book with that guy, whoever the hell he is 8) Although I am a lot younger than him, I doubt he could keep up with me...
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby autumnsphere » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:47 am

the key master wrote:This explains how desire can operate in an enightened mind without causing fear, or more pointedly, emotional energy.


Please elaborate. :wink:
Forget spiritual practice - just do drugs!
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:45 am

Please elaborate.


That's quite a request LOL. Let me think of an answer and get back to you. In the meantime, I feel like we need a musical interlude. Um, some of the lyrics in this link lack taste, if viewed from a certain perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV2ssT8lzj8
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby Sufilight9 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:04 am

the key master wrote:The infamous Marie!!! Nice to meet you. :)

LOL! Nice to meet you Jason! Have heard your name as well. :)

I still have more work to do in releasing fears, but I am getting there!


I find understanding fear to be an effective way to go beyond it. In a way, fear actually comes from love, albeit love for what you are not.

Good to have you here Marie. Tell phil i said Hi.

--jason


Okay, understanding fear, didn't think of of approaching it this way. Thank you!
Marie
Simple kindness to one's self and all that lives is
the most powerful transformational force of all."

Dr. David R. Hawkins
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby Sufilight9 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:19 am

runstrails wrote:Welcome, Marie! Any friend of enigma's is a friend of ours :D

Thanks, runstrails! :)
Your 'method' sounds very similar to the mc2 method which so many of us highly recommend on this forum. Give it a listen, if you want:

http://www.mc2method.com/listen/

I don't hear very well, so can't listen to recordings, except for music, but will check the method as I haven't heard of it, and I am open to exploring, but thank bringing this to my awareness.

I find that sometimes I can welcome genuinely uncomfortable feelings as much as comfortable ones. If I am 'become conscious' with uncomfortable feelings, I actually find them sort of enjoyable or delicious in a way! Afterall both kinds of feelings are essential aspects of our humanity. And why would we want to deny one part of our humanness :wink:


Hmmmm... good point. We humans tend to push away what we don't find pleasant which makes it worse.
Marie
Simple kindness to one's self and all that lives is
the most powerful transformational force of all."

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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby Sufilight9 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:29 am

This is very interesting, so much to assimilate, will print this and read it again.
the key master wrote:Good stuff trails.

'become conscious' with uncomfortable feelings, I actually find them sort of enjoyable or delicious in a way!


Now if the emotion can be noticed at this "slight burn" stage, without the mind layering more emotion on top of it through negative storytelling, the emotional energy burns itself up. The warmth can actually be felt, and what is typically called emotional pain or grief becomes unnecessary, not to mention, depression, anxiety, negative self image, delusions, or however a given emotion would typically manifest in a given mind. Just noticing and allowing the energy to be allows this burning to happen, which uproots the source of self inflicted suffering. So, what came first, desire or fear? Desire did. Self seeking(seeking one's identity through a thought created image of self) causes fear, and gets layered on top of desire. This explains how desire can operate in an enightened mind without causing fear, or more pointedly, emotional energy.

In terms of the shift from emotional elation to burn: Ideally, the change in fragrance of the body is noticed, and the emotion is allowed to burn itself out, which likewise serves as a reminder to stop that self seeking business. Alternatively, the energy could attract other thoughts, negative thoughts, thoughts fueled by old patterns(which label certain emotions "bad"), which actually adds new energy on top of the emotion. This story telling is a form of repression, and gives life to the energy which is unconsciously avoided. Most call this suffering, or "emotionally tainted thinking". Its repression because the emotion gets buried by the old thought patterns which are designed to avoid certain feelings, which ironically enough, brings about more emotion, more burn, which will end up expressing itself through suffering in one form or another. This is why understanding old thought patterns, how desire and fear play in, the mind's escape patterns and defense mechanisms, can truly help a given mind transcend suffering. Of course what we are already transcends suffering, but tell that to someone who's suffering.
Marie
Simple kindness to one's self and all that lives is
the most powerful transformational force of all."

Dr. David R. Hawkins
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:28 pm

Good stuff Marie. I do have a bit more to add. I really want to sit down with things and give them a good thinking over. Will write some more tonight when Im back in my laboratory.
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