Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:13 am

the key master wrote:
This explains how desire can operate in an enightened mind without causing fear, or more pointedly, emotional energy.

dora wrote,
Please elaborate.


The mind might ask, well show me what an enlightened mind thinks like so I can think like that. This, obviously, will never work, because as long as unconscious mental programs are embedded into the psyche, the mind will be implicitly unable to measure up to this ideological imagery in the first place. Understanding the shortcomings of such an approach, we thus see the value in utilizing algorithms to describe mental processes operating within the mechanics of thought. These algorithms can be utilized by the mind to spot check its own thinking, which could likewise make certain unconscious thought patterns conscious. Its not about how anyone else thinks, but how you think, and how you're thinking is causing suffering for you or for anyone else. Of course you are not that which thinks, but as far as this post is concerned, that's exactly what you are.

Let's start with the ability of the thinking mind to bring emotional energy into the body. Self seeking is the tendency of the mind to seek a sense of self through thought created imagery, particularly the thought of being a certain someone. In terms of past experience, remembering an action the human form performed, and then equating a sense of self with it, is one process that can bring emotional energy in. Desire is energy. Desire is Life. If the One did not want to manifest as this timeless reality, it wouldn't. But when desire which operates now and nowehere else, is thrust into the fragmented dimension of thought with the "intent to be" something in that fragmented dimension, energy flowing from the One Source is limited to a story of separate self by the intention of the mind. Your intention is not separate from God's. But if you are going to continue to want to be separate, then it will be God's intention that you suffer, and there ain't no two ways about that.

Dealing with past is far more simple than dealing with future, so the algorithms here are a bit more complex, but there is no code that cannot be cracked once an understanding of motivation is uncovered. Do understand I could put your thought processes up on a platter, but without the desire to bring conscious change (ie the motivation to understand unconscious motivation), true forward moving change cannot take place. So, before you read any further, I ask, what's your motivation for reading this? To prevent any more further pain for "me"? To be enlightened(just go home now)? Or to expose yourself for the fraud that you are?

That's really what this is about. Learning that you don't exist by any means necessary. Will this end suffering? Suffering lights the fire under the ass that isn't yours. But are you scared of suffering? Are you scared of pain? Are you motivated by fear? If you're motivated by fear the whole process goes amuck. Take a look at that motivation and then come back if you're still motivated.

I'm going to think some more I'll be back in a bit.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:58 am

Before we dive into future.

If it is seen and understood that self seeking causes energy to come into the body, and that this energy causes pain, the natural tendency of the mind is to fear self seeking. So, the intent must be to understand self seeking with total indifference to its arising or taking place. If the intent is to avoid pain, the mind will transpose this intent onto the self seeking. If A causes B, and B is what I don't want, then I also don't want A.

That sounds logical, but the logic for not wanting B could be flowing from the delusional sense of being a certain someone. This logic will corrupt the ability to stop A, because the core delusion of being a separate self is still operating within the program. So, while certain experiences in life aren't pleasant, its time to stop caring whether or not they happen. I wonder what would happen if I tried to self seek right now. I wonder if I could bring emotional energy into the body to cause myself emotional pain in future.

Back to desire generally. Desire operates in the timeless now. The mind could avoid desire altogether, but if the reason the mind is doing this stems from B, or not wanting pain, then this avoidance stems from the delusional belief of being a separate self. The human form is being limited by the mind created story around it, which likewise limits the ability of the One to manifest through it.

With that out of the way, we can get back to understanding self seeking.

Desire is always operating. You'd disappear if it wasn't. When we understand there is no separate self, desire does still operate in the thinking mind. If I want to get eat some pizza, I'm gonna go eat some pizza. Unless there was repressed energy in the emotional body, the tendency to self seek through such a desire would be rather low, although I guess that would depend on how good the pizza was. I recommend Grimaldi's under the Brooklyn Bridge. Oh I could envision myself there right now, ploughing a whole pizza. Strangely, this does nothing for me on the emotional level. Anyway, I digress.

But in terms of desires of the heart, or those connected with your "outer purpose". This type of desire possesses a much higher potential (although this would depend on the desire and the mind used to manifest it) for the thinking mind to lace it with self seeking, thus bringing emotional energy into the body, thus corrupting the ability for the human form to remain connected with the creative force of the universe. If you're lucky, life will put you in a spot where you can suffer this tendency away, which ironically enough will only come about when you are indifferent to your own suffering, which can only occur through understanding that one is not and never has been a separate self, and incorporating that understanding into ALL THOUGHT PROCESSES.

K, gonna take a little break and go for a walk. Its nice outside, so I want to take advantage of the weather while its still here. Be back in a little while.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:19 am

The previous two posts explored certain thought patterns without incorporating the variables of repressed emotional energy and the mechanics of repression in general,which would necessitate a further exploration of projection. For the sake of simplicity, I'm not going to talk much about emotional repression here, but if you haven't noticed, what I am talking about is repression of desire, which is also a repression of energy, just flowing through a different dynamic. It might seem trivial to some why I would be teaching the mind to open up to thought patterns which we could label "self seeking". I am doing this only if the mind actually fears self seeking. If the dynamic is feared, even if indirectly, how can it ever be understood within the given mind? It couldn't, because the mind won't let it happen, and the way it unconsciously does this is through suppressing desire. The belief of being a separate self is apparent within such a mind's thought patterns, and now we can continue.

Sometimes the pursuit of a certain desire "reminds" the mind of pain from past. This reminding would serve as a mental block to the pursuit of that desire. There may be no energy repressed in the body, but the pursuit of the desire could bring energy in, and this incoming energy, brought about through self seeking, is actually perpetuated by fear, fear of past pain repeating. "I don't want to be a failure, so I want to succeed".

Self seeking is typically driven by fear of emotional pain. I know what you're thinking, I said desire came before fear. So why or how does fear drive self seeking? There can be no emotional fear until emotional pain happens. And once the mind believes that an event which caused emotional pain that happened should not have happened, the mind has officially begun its training on how to avoid emotional pain. Thought patterns stemming from this training could still get activated once emotional energy comes into the energy field of the body. We could call this "old mind" operating in stealth fashion. While the mind may not repress the energy, the lingering fear of emotional pain is actually bringing the energy into the body.

Now let's say there is a thought of future playing in. Let's say that rather than energy entering the body and simply getting expressed through emotional pain or that "slight burn" mentioned in the earlier post, that in addition to this, every time that burn arises, someone comes up to you and hits you with a baseball bat. This would make things more interesting, and probably make the understanding process of self seeking unfold at a much quicker rate, but only if the mind was willing to pursue desire without self interest getting in the way. Bottom line is, the best way to understand self seeking, to put an end to self seeking, is through first watching it happen, experiencing the consequences, and then learning to not do that anymore. Not following the heart is patch up job, a temporary solution to keep oneself imprisoned by egoic thinking. The self seeking can never truly be transcended if its merely the implications of self seeking which are the concern. It comes down to willingness to follow the heart, and living in fidelity to what's real, as opposed to what isn't. The influx of energy from self seeking can be eliminated entirely, but not as long as there is a fear of pain, emotional or otherwise.

I could blather on about how Love is Desire, how love guides the thinking of the enlightened mind, how the human form becomes an expression of love through the mental understanding of nothing separate, I just don't feel like doing that right now, unless someone wants me to.

Questions/comments/elaborations?
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby autumnsphere » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:39 pm

Its not about how anyone else thinks, but how you think, and how you're thinking is causing suffering for you or for anyone else.


Actually, it's causing suffering for me and myself only, no one else.

Your intention is not separate from God's. But if you are going to continue to want to be separate, then it will be God's intention that you suffer, and there ain't no two ways about that.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Love your crazy head.

So, before you read any further, I ask, what's your motivation for reading this? To prevent any more further pain for "me"? To be enlightened(just go home now)? Or to expose yourself for the fraud that you are?


Cause I'm curious what Jason has to say. :lol:
Seriously though, I'm reading it cause I want to understand (I being the mind, of course).

That sounds logical, but the logic for not wanting B could be flowing from the delusional sense of being a certain someone. This logic will corrupt the ability to stop A, because the core delusion of being a separate self is still operating within the program.


If B is fully understood (by the mind), there will be no need to stop A.

Strangely, this does nothing for me on the emotional level.


Man you're inhuman. No drooling at all? :lol:

For the sake of simplicity, I'm not going to talk much about emotional repression here, but if you haven't noticed, what I am talking about is repression of desire, which is also a repression of energy, just flowing through a different dynamic. It might seem trivial to some why I would be teaching the mind to open up to thought patterns which we could label "self seeking". I am doing this only if the mind actually fears self seeking. If the dynamic is feared, even if indirectly, how can it ever be understood within the given mind? It couldn't, because the mind won't let it happen, and the way it unconsciously does this is through suppressing desire. The belief of being a separate self is apparent within such a mind's thought patterns, and now we can continue.


OK, so let's take a simple example - you love someone, you want to be with them. Is this desire or self-seeking? Is this grounded in separation? Would you ever want to be WITH someone AND act on this desire if you understood the underlying unity?

...every time that burn arises, someone comes up to you and hits you with a baseball bat.


Or pinches you... :wink: :lol:
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:51 am

Actually, it's causing suffering for me and myself only, no one else.


How could you know this?

If B is fully understood (by the mind), there will be no need to stop A.


If there is a fear of emotional pain happening to a separate self in future, there ain't no stopping self seeking. If the fear of emotional pain has been fully understood by the mind, the tendency to self seek can fizzle out, if its caused enough pain that is. This requires a deep understanding of one's thought patterns shaped from past, including full forgiveness of any "other" who is perceived to have wronged "little me". Otherwise, there isn't full understanding of B, and A will essentially remain unstoppable, even if it can still unconsciously be suppressed. We can look at this as a deeper or emotional understanding of no separate self.

OK, so let's take a simple example - you love someone, you want to be with them. Is this desire or self-seeking?


First, that example is not really simple at all. The whole question presupposes that you actually are a separate self. You aren't. How can you love a separate self? Who is in love with who? It's desire and self seeking. Self seeking cannot operate without desire.

Is this grounded in separation?


Yes. When I say grounded in separation, I'm pointing to the whole "intent to be" thinking, meaning you actually want to be a certain someone in future. This is what causes the emotional pull, the mind striving for some other moment to find wholeness as a separate self. That never works, but it can lead to dependence, addiction, projection, and suffering. Repressed energy can play a huge role in driving this thinking, as can non-acceptance.

Notice self seeking taking place when it happens, and stop finding a sense of self in it. Otherwise emotional energy will continue to come into the body, and the unresolved thought patterns from past will eventually make themselves known. (namely the ones designed to avoid emotional pain). Thats where "the work" is. Most minds seem to be more conducive to "the work" when there is suffering taking place, or on the horizon. If it is on the horizon, the work can actually prevent it from happening. But the goal must not be to avoid suffering for "me", but to see through the illusion of "me", and how that illusion is still emotionally present in the pursuit or shaping of desire.

Would you ever want to be WITH someone AND act on this desire if you understood the underlying unity?


Don't look for ideals, or for anyone else to tell or show you how to think. There is no understanding the underlying unity, because you are that unity which can never be understood. If you identify with the thing which is doing the understanding, then you are identifying with a tool that lives off the separation it creates.

So, ask the deeper questions. Am I viewing a loved one objectively? Am I treating a loved one as if they are something separate? Are my desires still operating under the delusional "belief" of being a separate self? Are my desires causing suffering? If they are, then something is not being accepted or understood.

Life just happens, its a timeless unfolding. If there is a tendency to exert control on life, then the mind is still operating under programs perpetuating the belief in separation. Take a look at these programs, the projection stemming from them, the repressed pain which is driving them, so that they can be consciously unwired. The mind can stop its own self inflicted suffering through consciously uncovering its unconscious motivations, which might mean looking backward and understanding everything which has gone down up until now. Of course the mind might just prefer to get what it wants, which is a tasty recipe for self seeking and suffering, albeit a more simplistic recipe than the mind understanding that it could never want anything "for itself" in any practical sense of the word.

Put an end to self seeking without suppression, and see what happens to questions surrounding desire.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby autumnsphere » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:29 am

This is really interesting. Really, really interesting... Cause I realize that 95% of my thoughts are based on keeping or building a certain self-image. Crazy... But why is that bad? And what's left when you cut it out?

Dora likes asking simple questions... ;)
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby Quinn » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:10 pm

It's not bad. It's just not real.

What's left is pure potential.

Quinn likes simple answers. :D
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby enigma » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:49 pm

There is no understanding the underlying unity, because you are that unity which can never be understood.


I would go so far as to say there isn't an underlying unity, which makes understanding it moot. Unity implies a unification of parts and the whole point is that there are no parts. It may sound to some like an issue of semantics, but in practice it's the difference between trying to unite apparently separate parts, and noticing that there was never anything to unify. There is just oneness, within which many expressions appear, but expressions cannot become parts. The 'understanding' is the result of NOT thinking in terms of parts. When mind forms an illusion, it cannot be adjusted such that it can be understood. It simply needs to stop doing that.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:22 pm

Cause I realize that 95% of my thoughts are based on keeping or building a certain self-image. Crazy... But why is that bad?


Its not bad, but its certainly thinking worth noticing.

And what's left when you cut it out?


What exactly is being cut out? Something that never existed in the first place, right? The answer is see for yourself.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby autumnsphere » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:21 am

OK, let's take it step by step. A self-seeking thought comes in, you see it, recognize it without judgement and then what?


enigma wrote:
There is no understanding the underlying unity, because you are that unity which can never be understood.


I would go so far as to say there isn't an underlying unity, which makes understanding it moot. Unity implies a unification of parts and the whole point is that there are no parts. It may sound to some like an issue of semantics, but in practice it's the difference between trying to unite apparently separate parts, and noticing that there was never anything to unify. There is just oneness, within which many expressions appear, but expressions cannot become parts. The 'understanding' is the result of NOT thinking in terms of parts. When mind forms an illusion, it cannot be adjusted such that it can be understood. It simply needs to stop doing that.


Beautiful, thank you. Again, I do need a different approach, cause understanding this mentally does nothing for me. :?
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby enigma » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:14 am

Right, mind holds an erroneous concept, and overlays a correct concept on top of it. The result is a conceptual layer cake that tastes pretty good but doesn't have anything to do with Truth.

Innocence is devoid of concepts, and therefore devoid of suffering. Innocence lost cannot be regained. That is, concepts cannot be forgotten, and so they must be transcended, which means seeing them for the creative bifurcations that they are.

The seeking of oneness is based on a misconceptualization. Seek to understand precisely how it is that the illusion of separation has been created.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby autumnsphere » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:03 am

Well, my 2-year old son just started calling himself "I".

During th past year or so he did not understand the concept of identity, he called himself with his nickname:
Zozo sleep, Zozo eat, Zozo do this and that...

So, yeah, children are born innocent and enlightened, we unenlighten them.

But please elaborate on understanding how the illusion has formed and how this will help.

A special song for you all: http://listen.grooveshark.com/s/Suspend ... 5aVG?src=5

Suspend in Whiteness

a) This Heaven

Soon after the awakening
I flew up in the air
I was a snowflake floating
Through my heavenland
As light as a feather
An ash
Like a grain of sand
From the white desert
And the misplaced time
I really need to find

I was a drop of water
From the pool of life
Since my burden's gone
I am the calm inside
This heaven makes me light

b) Don't Feel Alive

The sudden flashback stirs in my head
I see the boat
I see the ferryman
Recall the words he said
So where the heaven am I now?
Where the heaven am I?

I don't feel alive
I don't feel alive
I feel nothing

My lips are tightly sealed
My mind is blank
And every part of me is paralyzed
The scattered bits of my consciousness
Are suspended in the whiteness
Another stage of my path
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:51 am

Hi Dora,

By understanding that thinking creates the illusion of there being "someone thinking that is me", it can be further understood the act of thinking itself creates the person that thinking seeks to transcend.

Go back to the basics. Take a couple deep breaths, and connect with timeless stillness. When a thought arises, watch how a sense of identity flows with it, a sense of being a thought thinking itself. This can be quite comical to see, how a harmless little speck like a thought turns the world of appearance into a world of separation. If you let that thought fall away, what feels like wholeness seems to return. Of course the wholeness of "no mind" is not really an experience at all, it's a timeless connection which appears to disappear when the next thought arises. So wholeness can never be found as a separate self, as Dora, because what you are is already whole. Although perhaps it points closer to say that what you are already IS, and no thought can take that away from you. The separate self never existed in the first place, so there is no wholeness to find, but instead only a timeless eternity to be revealed. Embrace that eternity, know it as the Self, the substance and cause of everything.
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby autumnsphere » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:59 am

So basically you're saying: Leave the thoughts be, they have nothing to do with wholeness. :)
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Re: Yet more on anxiety and it's remedies

Postby the key master » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:19 pm

Yes we can only speak of wholeness in relation to separation. Understand the separation for what it is, an illusion created by thinking, and the illusion that there is wholeness "out there in some other moment for me" can likewise be transcended.
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