The Ultimate Duality

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: The Ultimate Duality

Postby Sighclone » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:26 am

And thank you, Chuck, for always bringing an honest heart to these pages...nice to hear from you again. Adya is quite candid in his latest book...talks about letting what needs to be said be said. (His example is him speaking to an employee.)

And trying to wave nonduality at your family is like throwing gasoline on a fire if they are not interested or ready. The family hooks are very deep and can require a superhuman level of acceptance and presence as painbodies erupt with great power. Me? Nah, I ain't superhuman. I bob and weave and try to get out of the way...usually succeed...sometimes get caught in a cross-fire. Even the vaunted Witness starts to sweat a bit. :(

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: The Ultimate Duality

Postby nutrition » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:24 am

ok, my 2 cents here.
I know that the problems we perceive have nothing to do with the situation or the person we are dealing with but with us.
However, from Andy's description of the situation she is dealing with a person who appears to be crazy, nuts or whatever label you want to slap on her/him.
So, if you are dealing with someone like that who continues to harass you in spite of you trying to let it go and not feed into it....what do you do?
Do you make it clear you love them but want no interaction whatsoever with them?...and yet even then they continue to be in your business.
Do you resort to the authorities and put a restraining order on them...?
There is a point where we are threatened physically and we need to protect ourselves. If someone came to you with a knife in his hands and tried to stab you, what would you do? Call the police, try to have the person arrested so she/he would cause no harm to you and others....? Or would you just say...well it is just me who is the problem the situation is really not problematic at all....!?
I see Andy's situation as a situation of threat where she needs to use external help to protect herself (police, the law etc..)
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Re: The Ultimate Duality

Postby heidi » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:22 pm

I'm heidi, nutrition, not Andy, but since all is one...
Last year, I posted as my status on facebook, "There is no law that says someone must maintain a toxic relationship simply because they were born into a particular family."
That caused a new drama where I made clear that I would not be participating in dishonest stuff, pointed out a few examples of the nastiness not just toward me but others, too. Stating for the gazillionth time - "If it's not honest and life affirming, I won't be participating." The stories continued. I de-friended her, and made sure she could not be in that realm of my business.

Many months ago, and despite no contact whatsoever, therefore no direct knowledge of me and nothing to base these assumptions on, upon hearing more stuff about "myself" (my "problem" that I don't have a problem with, is her problem - codependency at its very best), I finally wrote her a note that said, I heard you said you have this problem with me. "This was a shock to me as I would never harm you in any way. So, the moment I heard that I immediately released you from the pain and suffering of that toxic relationship.
No relationship - No problem!
You are FREE! ☺
Everything is perfect exactly as it is. Nothing needs fixing."

I am not in the business of fixing others. Acceptance and allowing is my game, which is why this has become comical.
It has been wonderfully cathartic to spew - and I appreciate the platform, patience and understanding, and now I'm done. Thanks! :mrgreen:

Now, back to the topic at hand - the ultimate duality where the spiritual rubber meets the road.
Heidi
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Re: The Ultimate Duality

Postby snowheight » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:00 pm

heidi wrote: "This was a shock to me as I would never harm you in any way. So, the moment I heard that I immediately released you from the pain and suffering of that toxic relationship.
No relationship - No problem!
You are FREE! ☺
Everything is perfect exactly as it is. Nothing needs fixing."


heidi,

Perhaps you can read what I'm going to write next in the context of what you know about my perspective from my writings here, as my meaning is subtly different from what I would have meant by it 3 years ago, but these words just seem to say this best:

You wrote exactly what was called for to be written. You did the right thing. That note was from love.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: The Ultimate Duality

Postby jimmyrich » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:44 am

Sighclone wrote:The ultimate duality, for me, in this whole process of awakening is the concept and experience of self vs. Self. Jillions of words have been written about it here and elsewhere, but I believe it is where the most suffering arises, and enough cannot be said.

OK, all I can offer is that there is only one Me. When I am a little self, I'm an aspect of the ego. When I am the big Self, I am something that I find difficult to describe - but it's all and always ME. Sometimes I am the inner child, inner critic, inner Satan or Christ or whatever me/self I become but it's always ME! There may be several "selves" in creation but I experience myself as a single unit/consciousness/being/thing, etc. I am hoping to some day experience the state of absolute ONENESS or UNITY but I bet it's going to feel like just ONE ME in there!
That duality is the core event in Eckhart’s shift. And stabilization in Self was not automatic or easy for him. I mean, what the hell happens to “little me???”

My current experience is that the "little me" vanishes the moment I am no longer it! And it appears whenever I become it.
Does our sense of self just vaporize?

For me, it seems to but I see that it ceases to be whenever I stop being it and return to another one of my identities or back to the Source (which is also me).
Do we “like who we are?”

I do now that acceptance has occured thanks to self esteem work and therapy.
Do other people like us?

Who cares?
Are we successful by our standards, etc.

Please define success.
(Yes, some ego drives and guilt lingered after a big kensho, only to be washed pretty much clear by the penetrating balm of Source, over time.)

Sorry but I don't comprehend any of that phrase.
But most of our motivation for action comes from egoic drives, and if it is exposed as a “false self” supported by a collection of memories, habits, concepts, ideas and the “I-thought,” what remains to motivate us to do anything?

I don't know what motivates you and can only reasonably speak for myself here. I am motivated by love, need, joy, fear, inspiration and a few others.
His was, to the Universe, “Give me whatever is necessary for me to awaken. I don’t care what it takes. I don’t care if the rest of my life is one of ease, and I don’t care if the rest of my life is hellish. Whatever’s necessary, that’s what I want. I’m inviting it. Give me whatever I need to awaken from this separation.”
I like that!
jim :)
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Re: The Ultimate Duality

Postby Sighclone » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:35 am

Good comments, Jim - thanks again for joining.

The instant we leave the Sat-Chit-Ananda wherein there is really no identity at all, OR All is Me (they are the same)...the instant a thought intrudes on that Unity Consciousness, the entirety of Samsara is potentialized. At then next instant it's handy to have a "little me" around, generally running on autopilot, to pay the rent.

I have to go to work tomorrow to keep cash flowing into our household. And I will "put on" the "costume of character" and become "Andy in the workplace." Before that I will be "Andy the car-driver on public roads." In both of those capacities I see other human beings with different names and personalities. They are not "little me...little Andy doing stuff in his day." They are other people, broadly identified, at least by me, with their bodies. For the most part, they themselves identify with their bodies and round up religions which tell them how to not fear dying, among other things.

Just because you and I, and many others on this forum have experiences which transcend mind and egoic identity, does not mean we can just "bliss out" without some serious consequences. Eckhart had the freedom and luxury to sit on a park bench for two years. (A freedom I do not sense he has now, by the way.) So the balancing act remains...and frankly, it becomes easier over time, in my experience. self...Self...self...Self...........

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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