Differences in pain-bodies

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby far_eastofwest » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:57 pm

GermanEnlightenment wrote:I struggle a lot with the painbody too.

Sometimes it feels like I was raised to give up on life.
My dad is a cold and distant man and I was afraid of him as a child. He would always yell at me for every little thing and practicly I thought that I was the reason for his bad temper. He didn´t teach my anything. Sometimes he wanted to show me how something works and if i didn´t get it right the first time he would get angry and want me to leave. He worked the whole day and in the evening he came home, watched TV and argued with my mom and yell at me. That was pretty much my whole childhood. At first I thought I was the problem and I wanted to do things to please him. But he was never pleased. Then my two younger sisters were born and everything they did was now under my responsibility. No matter what they screwed up, my father would always blame me. Even when I wasn´t at home and they did something I was the scapegoat. I really hated him at that point and when he drove to work in the morning I hoped that he never comes back again. :( I feel like I never connected to him on an emotional level. All he talks is about facts and how hard he works and how bad he gets treated of his family because they don´t appreciate it. It´s the same talk every day.

And in my teenage years I completely shut down emotionally. I argue a lot with him since that. I know it was "bad" to show my emotions because he didn´t care about them. I wasn´t allowed to be angry or be sad. My mother was completely different from him but for some reason I don´t remember her warmth, just the coldness of my father. It overshadowed everything.

I know that this is all just a story but I often think I´m damaged beyond repair. As if my self was splitted up in a sad child and a disoriented teenager. I´m 20 years now and I don´t know what to do at all.

I guess this all sounds pretty messed up but since I read PON and ANE I´m doing better. I learned how the ego works in my father and now I stand up form myself. But I think I must move out of home and then I will be free of him. My room, the kitchen, the living room, they all hold cruel memories of despair and hate.
Sometimes when I don´t see him often I´m doing good and I´m able to float through live. Everything flows naturally and I high have energy throughout the whole day. But one useless talk with him and I need a few minutes to calm down. I really have no expectations anymore with him. If he screams at me I´m not feeding his ego and then he also stops screeming. And sometimes I can see that he is proud to have me as a son. In some rare moments when he´s not angry I can see that he loves his family. He can´t show it in ANY way but I guess it´s there. There´s still good in him. (it´s like talking about Darth Vader :) )

It´s interesting because if he wasn´t my father I probably never spent time with a man like this. I don´t want a good connection with him. I don´t care anymore. If he would apologize for the things he did then maybe but he thinks that he did everything right and all others are against him. I don´t need him. I was fatherless for twenty years and I´m still alive.

I hope that after I end my study I can move out from this nuthouse and go my own way.


Hi German,

The randy travis poem thingy that makes the neglectful unloving father that wasted his life not expressing love and instead keeps a box, as some sort of martyr. Whats cool about that??? Nothing. Its just miserable existance for the children, worst is that they have a huge chance of replaying the same miserable games out again when they find someone that falls in love with them.

Fact is that most parents do love their children but some don't show it in positive ways.
That being said, its not 1890, there is dr phil and counselors and self help books. Adults can learn new ways to behave if they want to rather than sticking in the same old ineffective harmful patterns.

My mother coerced my old dad to start "hugging the kids/grandkids" at age 70.... she remarks "its a shame the children have had to wait until they are 40 for you to bond with them but better late than never" (mum is the reader of self help books). Its nice he makes the effort now and its a great role model for the grandchildren so they have another family member to model what love is and teach about families being nice safe loving places where kids are hugged.

You even say "your dad CANT show it". Your dad WONT show it. He has his reasons (inner pain/hurt etc). But he most definately CAN show it.

Here is a link to a site that deals with healing the inner child so you can get on with enjoying the 'now'.
Tolles books are good and its obvious when reading he has studied psychology and philosophy and had a lot of academic background/lots of reading at his disposal to help with his awakening. Reading stuff is good way to learn.


http://joy2meu.com

http://www.robertburneylive.com

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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:42 am

ge said: I really have no expectations anymore with him. If he screams at me I´m not feeding his ego and then he also stops screeming.

And sometimes I can see that he is proud to have me as a son.

In some rare moments when he´s not angry I can see that he loves his family.

He can´t show it in ANY way but I guess it´s there.

There´s still good in him. (it´s like talking about Darth Vader )

ge, forgive me for trespassing. If you were to step back from your view of this picture, from a height follow your dad through his day, as you mentioned earlier it seems that he works hard to hold down jobs to support the family. That IS love - your-dad-style.

That it's not appreciated - "he can't show it in ANY way but I guess it's still there"

suggests that you do really have expectations of him - you want him to show HIS love in a way that meets YOUR expectations or criteria of love.

GE: if you want love in your life, be love.

If you want love in your family, be love in your family.

Often what we feel we need from outside, is that which we need to give from the inside.

NO one is permanently damaged.

If a toothache is the worst pain ever suffered, it is the worst pain ever suffered. There is no competition for 'most pain'.

There are only views on a situation and whether it has been held onto, or let go.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby hanss » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:26 am

"If her past were your past, her pain your pain, her level of consciousness your level of consciousness, you would think and act exactly as she does. With this realization comes forgiveness, compassion, peace. The ego doesn’t like to hear this, because if it cannot be reactive and righteous anymore, it will lose strength."

Eckhart Tolle
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby Gerald » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:03 pm

GE, I think your situation is an example of someone engrossed in his or her pain-body. Contrary to what I have written earlier, ET does distinguish between strengths of pain-bodies. (he refers to an extraordinarily heavy pain-body on page 164 in A New Earth).GE you are fortunate to have found the PON and ANE at such an early point in your life. Understanding ET’s philosophy and putting it into action are two different things. It is true that if we can stop identifying with our painful past there is a clean plate for Life to happen on. We worry because we are controlled by the pain-body and it is the worrying not the actual perceived problem which is what is making me and others unhappy. I realize now that I actually exaggerate my problems to satisfy my bulimic pain body. (The fact that I understand that makes my life easier.) ET says the first step is to always be vigilant and notice when the pain-body is trying to access your Now.

So both you and I have heavy pain-bodies (or what we perceive as such). We both have to learn to keep them separate from our Being and stop feeding them by immersing ourselves in them. Eventually, without the feeding they will give up and diminish.

Remember the words from ANE ‘It too will pass’. :roll:
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:06 pm

Quinn said: I agree with Heidi that the structure and dynamics of 'pain-body' are the same no matter how devastating (or minor) the original incident or circumstance was.

The mind takes the incident/circumstance and holds onto it with thoughts like "It shouldn't have happened" or "There's a part of me that feels powerless".

Or possibly even more subtle unrecognized thoughts like "There must be something about me that caused it to happen". And the mind (ego) attaches an identity to these thoughts. I'm a victim. I'm not strong. I can't trust. I'm flawed.


I agree the falsity of the notions held onto by ego and painbody creates a 'victim' perpetually in the crime/abuse, not a 'survivor'.

Helping another (imho) should not be helping them to stay a victim. Judging and labelling others as victims as if the crime against them identifies them to the point of becoming their identity is (imho) abusing them all over again and creating the limitations under which they can move.

Healthy adults who were abused (misused) as children, or targets of crime who are survivors, are those who are helped to understand it happened TO them, it does not define them.

Let us empower each other. Let us be the full expression of who we really are. While employing empathy let us also take great care to celebrate the 'survivor', and that often involves humour. The pain body / victim-ego may not appreciate it, but the soul sure does.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby GermanEnlightenment » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:26 am

Thank you all for your kind words!

I read the painbody chapter of ANE again and I recognized that something in me actually wants pain. It´s this endless circle of identification with the painbody which leads to destructive thoughts and vice versa. When I´m not occupied with something there´s just this feeling of depression that´s left. It became so normal over the years that I didn´t care about this feeling of unease und fear.

The quote of ET really helped me to see the other side. But I don´t know if I understand what you mean smiileyjen101. When it comes to my family I show love to my two little sisters, my mum and my grandma. But if my father doesn´t respond like a "normal" person I don´t know how to show him. I understand that he shows his love in his way so I guess the best would be to drop all expectations and forget that he´s my dad and forget the past that we share.

I really appreciate this forum and all your responses and I don´t want to imagine what I would do if I didn´t read ET´s books. :)
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:13 am

GE said: The quote of ET really helped me to see the other side. But I don´t know if I understand what you mean smiileyjen101. When it comes to my family I show love to my two little sisters, my mum and my grandma. But if my father doesn´t respond like a "normal" person I don´t know how to show him. I understand that he shows his love in his way so I guess the best would be to drop all expectations and forget that he´s my dad and forget the past that we share.


The wise man Mahatma Ghandi said "Be the change you want to see in the world".

There is a difference in energy if this is done with expectation of anything in return, or if it just sincerely created/manifesting selflessly.

I'm a little hesitant to advise too deeply because it's a state to grow into, not a thing to cling to, like Ghandi also said about Faith. So, when I said if you want love in your life, BE love, it's a recognition of where your response-ability starts and ends, it's not dependent upon any 'other' but finding it within and setting it free from both 'expectation' of anything in return, or the responses of others.

Small steps in this direction can maybe assist.

Random acts of kindness are a great example.

Also noticing without resisting or judging the reality.

Notice how 'moods' affect people in a close circle. Notice how others' moods affect you, notice how your moods affect others.

Given that you have a notion that your dad is not 'normal' maybe honestly look at what you think is 'normal' and see if it's maybe full of expectations and judgements.

Resisting 'what is' is a sure path to suffering. Extending your judgements and expectations onto others is ... well, outside of your response-ability to be able to discern accurately.

Life is full of disappointments, that's true, our only sane response though is to the reality, not the ..if only, or ... should be... or could be... but what really is.

I agree with Karma Rider in this bit -
Gerald wrote:
As I understand it, the essence of ET's teachings is to separate oneself from the mind. And I agree with that and try my best to accomplish it but it is harder for those with heavier pain-bodies than for those with less heavy ones. What ET is saying is that no matter what happens one should not dwell on it (identify with it) but carry on ones life as if nothing happened and deny the emotions created in the past or the Now. It would be hard to explain that to a mother who's child was hit and killed by a drunk driver.

Karma Rider wrote: ET doesn't really say this. What he says is closer to remaining in awareness. Watching, observing, staying in awareness, brings consciousness to unconscious mental and pain-body structures, and this loosens identification with them. ET also talks about acceptance, but it's not the same as "carry on ones life as if nothing happened." Acceptance is the noticing of resistance, and in noticing the resistance can be released.


As a mother of a child who was hit and killed by a (more 'drunk on ego' not alcohol) driver I agree with ET that that event doesn't define me, my child, or the driver as one thing or another. Those in a similar situation who cling to the idea that it does, do appear to suffer more. But there is a big difference, as KR says, between acceptance of the reality and working through the issues of it, and pretending it didn't happen.

I do also have to say, using things such as great tragedies as reasons for not being aware is something of an abdication of whatever response-ability we do have at our disposal. That is where I notice the difference between a 'victim' perspective and a 'survivor' perspective. As ET points to if we are making/holding onto a thing, person or situation as an enemy, obstacle or means to an end, that is ego / separation / fear at work. That is what strengthens the pain-body and keeps someone in a 'victim' state. It disempowers awareness and empowers the ego to continue to find separation - enemy, obstacle, means to an end.

Breaking the cycle of suffering does mean finding acceptance of what really is, rather than the swinging of expectation of 'should be' and judgement of self and others that strengthens the pain body.

And GE... there is a funny notion that Dads seem to learn a lot between the child's ages of 14 to 30.. inside that age you'd swear they know nothing, then suddenly they seem to have learnt a whole heap. Remember all things are 'perspective' :wink:
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby hanss » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:48 am

GermanEnlightenment wrote:.. I don´t want to imagine what I would do if I didn´t read ET´s books. :)


What you have been thru has put you in a good postion. To be so young and already have so much wisdom and knowledge. And I think you will be a great father someday.
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby GermanEnlightenment » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:41 pm

Thank you people ! You really helped me with your advices!
It´s funny I wanted to know how to act with my dad and now it´s clear to me that I never gave him a chance to get along with me. Since my teenage years I showed him nothing but negativity. But I fooled myself all the way. I really wanted his appreciation and knowing that I will not get it I act like things doesn´t mean anything to me. I was dependend on his approval.
I recognized this and now I slowly notice how I get rid of his approval. It doesn´t mean I´m fighting with him, no I just do my thing and recognize his judgement about me as his ego. It´s that simple but in family situations it often is hard to go in with a cool head and just look at things without getting upset about the same things.

I have a suggestion where I would be interested in your opinion, people! I see that my dad acts unconscious so if I´m acting like a approval-seeker his ego wants to dominate me. The ego sees the weakness and the ability to judge so he shifts into critizing-mood. What do you think about it?

Just another thing I noticed while writing this post: It doesn´t matter if those who read it think bad about me or not. A year ago I was afraid to tell my opinion about something even on the internet. Now I see that it doesn´t matter. You like my posts that´s OK. You don´t like it, that´s fine too. The real "I" doesn´t need to defend itself, it just is.
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:38 am

Nice 'noticing' GE!!

Realising what other people think of you is none of your business, and the only thing you are response-able for is your own reactions and 'output' gives us so much more room to BE... whatever YOU want to BE.

(for me love and compassion is nice :) )
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby GermanEnlightenment » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:20 pm

What I experienced the last days was that it hurts me if I disagree with my dad. In the last months I build the confidence to do what I want and not what he wants me to do. But if I disagree with him I feel like a bad person and the pain is so intense that I´m afraid of dying. Is that the ego who thinks that the walls it build up will crumble down if I do something against the usual? I think so.

I recognized that nobody can trigger my painbody like my dad and the more I stand up for myself the more I´m able to be in the present moment. It´s all just conditioning but sometimes I get scared of destructive thoughts. F.e. I sometimes feared that my dad would kick me out of the house if I don´t agree with him or do what he says. I see that this thoughts are really irrational but I see the ego working here. It goes like this: Disagreement from my side - he is angry - destructive thoughts are coming to make me feel bad-Old conditioning can live on!! :)
I could laugh about it it´s so stupid and a cheap way how the ego works he :lol:
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby neil1234 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:01 am

Hi Gerald,

I am curious, why do you want to know "defferent kinds of pain-bodies", what benefit do you want to gain from that activity. The way I see it is, pain-body is something which feeds upon our pain, and it feels satisfied only when constantly being nourished by various kinds of pains. So it urges us to dig out more and more pain in our lives and offer them to it so that it is not hungry. So it wants to keep the wounds green.

Now we may all have different kinds of pains in our lives depending upon our circumstances, but the function of pain-body is always same, goading us to discover more and more sources of pain (in our past, present or fear of future pains). Now some people (like me) may find it very easy to find sources of pain, because we have so many of them.

It is only important to understand this mechanism, I dont think it will serve any purpose to classify "different kinds of pain-bodies".

Another way to put this question is, even if it is true that there are different kind of pain-bodies, YOU still have only one. That is the only pain-body you should be concerned about, regardless of what other varieties of pain-bodies other people are carrying around.

Let me know if I am missing something.

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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby Yutso » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:52 pm

GermanEnlightenment writes, "What I experienced the last days was that it hurts me if I disagree with my dad. In the last months I build the confidence to do what I want and not what he wants me to do. But if I disagree with him I feel like a bad person and the pain is so intense that I´m afraid of dying...
I recognized that nobody can trigger my painbody like my dad and the more I stand up for myself the more I´m able to be in the present moment. It´s all just conditioning but sometimes I get scared of destructive thoughts. F.e. I sometimes feared that my dad would kick me out of the house if I don´t agree with him or do what he says".

http://undividedjournal.com/2012/11/29/ ... ual-field/ The first 2 pages of this article might be helpful in understanding the biological conflict which occurs in the brain when one part of the brain (limbic system) is driven towards secure attachment and simultaneously another part of the brain (brain stem) is screaming "danger"!

May we experience compassion towards ourselves if this occurs. If it does not occur, that's good too.
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Re: Differences in pain-bodies

Postby simba » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:40 pm

neil1234 wrote:Hi Gerald,

I am curious, why do you want to know "defferent kinds of pain-bodies", what benefit do you want to gain from that activity. The way I see it is, pain-body is something which feeds upon our pain, and it feels satisfied only when constantly being nourished by various kinds of pains. So it urges us to dig out more and more pain in our lives and offer them to it so that it is not hungry. So it wants to keep the wounds green.

Now we may all have different kinds of pains in our lives depending upon our circumstances, but the function of pain-body is always same, goading us to discover more and more sources of pain (in our past, present or fear of future pains). Now some people (like me) may find it very easy to find sources of pain, because we have so many of them.

It is only important to understand this mechanism, I dont think it will serve any purpose to classify "different kinds of pain-bodies".

Another way to put this question is, even if it is true that there are different kind of pain-bodies, YOU still have only one. That is the only pain-body you should be concerned about, regardless of what other varieties of pain-bodies other people are carrying around.

Let me know if I am missing something.

Regards
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