Questions that no guru will ever answer

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: Questions that no guru will ever answer

Postby karmarider » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:26 pm

rideforever wrote:
Is a stand against science a false security? How about a belief in the loa? Is that a false security? How about your spiritual understanding right now? Why do you think that it is not a false security? How do you know that your spiritual understanding of labeling is not driven by a clinging to false security? Why do you think you spriitual understanding is not delusional? How do you know it is not driven by fear.

Yes they are all false because they represent the identification with thought.

When you contact the real there is confirmation that it is Real. This is how you know.

Real is not something like a thought. There is no judgement, no right or wrong. No decision. It is just Real.


Right. I agree. We can't depend on knowledge or theories or beliefs.
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Re: Questions that no guru will ever answer

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:18 pm

Nice discourse guys!

If I can start back with the notion about words, thoughts and actions as energy in motion and us describing things in labels the grammar we use 'signify' pointers
in that nouns are 'naming' words - labels we have to come to agreement as 'being' a thing.
Verbs an agreement of 'doing' and adjectives describing the experience in 'feeling/bias/comparison'.

And ask any second grade kid how 'mysterious' and magic this all is but they were likely using the words pretty much correctly without knowing anything about 'grammar'.

Agreed?

Real is not something like a thought. There is no judgement, no right or wrong. No decision. It is just Real.

Right. I agree. We can't depend on knowledge or theories or beliefs.

'can't' means can not as in its impossible, and that's not totally correct because we can if we choose to.

What do you choose to depend on?

People depend on what they know, and what they know they've learnt through experience, wherever and however that experience comes from. It's not static, it changes with the experiences.

Resisting that knowledge or making a 'religion' of any it may be a way for people to be comfortable with it being what it is, to make sense of it, or to be able to share the essence of it with others.

That one might find 'spiritual' energies in the expression and prefer 'scientific' energies in the expression makes not a blind bit of difference to what it IS that is experienced. 'Spiritual' and 'scientific' are labels that may or may not be experienced by two people in the same way with the same knowledge and understanding.

A deaf, dumb and blind person still knows what they know through their experience of the energies of life.

To negotiate agreement on 'what shall we call this' is very different to denying the experience of 'this'.

Faithless knowing is 'in' the essence, and we can be at peace with that, without naming.

It's only when we have to start negotiating meaning that perspectives come to 'matter'. In both uses of the word it is and is not of importance / does and does not matter that there are different perspectives, and it brings its energies into form (matter) to be observed, tested, labelled etc

If we are BEING we are accepting what is NOW. It needs no spiritual or scientific 'knowing' or labeling or agreement to BE.


Reason and intuition both have their place in guiding us. Intuition is the awareness of the arising 'now' energy, reason is the explaining, making 'sense' of the expression of energies and is used both before and after the 'factor'.

While in the 'reasoning' state, one can still BE in the intuitive state in the sense of experiencing the energies either in harmony with the 'factors' or in a discord in some of the factors.

Not knowing everything is a given. We 'choose' that which we focus on and 'reason' according to our knowledge.

A toddler I knew for whatever reason had his own words for things, 'bondont' was I don't want to, and 'bandan' was ice cream. He otherwise had a perfectly good and quite advanced vocabulary. Initially when we tried to negotiate with him to use 'I don't want to' or 'ice cream' it was hilariously funny. He could say the words individually, so we would have him say them
say 'I' - I
say 'don't' - don't
say 'want to' - want to
say "I don't want to' - bondont

say 'ice' - ice
say 'cream' - cream
say 'ice cream - bandan

That we had no sense of where this came from we could still do two things, understand his meaning, and translate it into our understanding of those things. In the end it was more convenient for him to come to use the more widely agreed words, but what he was experiencing in his immediate interaction with energies arising was 'bondont', and 'bandan'.

Whether its 'science' or 'spiritual' matters not.
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Re: Questions that no guru will ever answer

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:17 pm

Karmarider said in another thread:
Spirituality hasn't really improved the human condition. Neither has anything else.


That's a really interesting perspective calm man but why the negative focus? - hasn't... neither...

What is there to improve? And what is it to improve?

Actions create natural consequences. Cause and effects have consequences.

It is what it is.

There is no 'better' or 'worse' of it.

It is what it is.

We can only have perspectives of that.

When people have said to me, or when they say to anyone "I cannot imagine ( in being unable to know how, why, etc) going through the things you have gone through"
I agree with them, they can't, because they haven't 'gone through' 'it'.
When/if they then judge it.... as anything good/bad .. it's flawed by their perspective and their imagination.

I have responded in the past, lovingly, acceptingly and with compassion.

It is both better and worse than you can 'imagine', but it's only experienced one moment at a time, and in that it is all okay.

Does that make sense?
If you try to 'imagine' outside of here and now, and reason outside of here and now, and try to 'evaluate' the experiences of another, it's inherently flawed, because it is not NOW, it's not HERE, and its not 'experience'.

Therefore it can neither be judged positive or negative. It can only be.
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Re: Questions that no guru will ever answer

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:30 pm

bf2 said in another thread: Thanks Karmarider. Good and honest replies, exactly as expected.


Disappointment or surprise are judgements made in the distance between expectation and reality.

It's easy to accept in the areas where they are in harmony.

It feels 'safe' and 'comfortable' there with no effort of growth required.

That is why some stay within their 'beliefs'.

The feelings of 'good' and of 'honest' are consistent with what is already 'believed'.

Moving away from that can feel uncomfortable.

As Sandy said:
The detaching is not from Life, but from our false sense of separation from Life---we detach from the limited view of who we are.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Questions that no guru will ever answer

Postby karmarider » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:49 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Real is not something like a thought. There is no judgement, no right or wrong. No decision. It is just Real.

Right. I agree. We can't depend on knowledge or theories or beliefs.

'can't' means can not as in its impossible, and that's not totally correct because we can if we choose to.


"can't" in this context means we don't need to.

It's simple when you don't get spiritual about it.
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Re: Questions that no guru will ever answer

Postby karmarider » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:59 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:Karmarider said in another thread:
Spirituality hasn't really improved the human condition. Neither has anything else.


That's a really interesting perspective calm man but why the negative focus? - hasn't... neither...


It's a straightforward observation.

I understand the spiritual perspective which says everthing is perfect and there is nothing to improve.

You must understand the simple and straightforward perspective that a lot of human suffering is not necessary. And spirituality has not so far provided a way for people to see that.
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Re: Questions that no guru will ever answer

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:01 am

Karmarider said: It's simple when you don't get spiritual about it.

It is even simple in sharing once we understand and are using words with agreed meaning in context :lol:


karmarider said: We can't depend on knowledge or theories or beliefs.

Jen said: 'can't' means can not as in its impossible, and that's not totally correct because we can if we choose to.

karmarider said: "can't" in this context means we don't need to.


In this case and understanding calm man, I absolutely agree, 'need' is a relative term.

We can also of course respond to things by expressing 'bondont' :lol:

(in case you love it, and I sometimes do :wink: its pronounciation is bondont - the dont sounded as in 'on' or 'want', not won't or don't... hmm.... lol! forgive me, I love the playful energy of word nuances)
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