What you resist persists - why?

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby Fore » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:26 pm

Enlightened2B wrote: Our brains are most CERTAINLY real.

Apparently so. :roll:
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby runstrails » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:47 pm

Ahley wrote: The brain does not create reality, it merely maps reality via pattern recognition (neurons). My brain does not create a tree or a flower. Those environments exist independently of my human brain and neurons.


Ash---you might want to consider this a little deeper. What is out there? Is there an out there?-- human neurons allow perception in 3-D images, a particular color spectrum, a particular frequency range (say roughly between 50Hz and roughly 20K), So very different from how the world appears to a bat, a zebrafish or a slug or whatever species we have not yet discovered in the amazon. So what is this reality that our brains appear to be encoding? Sadly there is not very much research to read on this (perhaps comparative cross-species studies--but those are so intuitive). So here is where science does not go all the way, but scientific contemplation does!
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby Phil2 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:54 pm

ashley72 wrote:
The brain does not create reality, it merely maps reality via pattern recognition (neurons). My brain does not create a tree or a flower. Those environments exist independently of my human brain and neurons.


How can you be so sure that reality is not a kind of dream ?

??

When you dream you think that the objects and persons you meet in your dream are 'real' persons separate from you ... only when you wake up do you realize that those forms were merely the productions of the dreamer's mind ... this is what awakening means ...
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby dijmart » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:02 pm

Onceler wrote: I went out and collected evidence that proved the article true in my own life. It seems so clear........my own own personal experience, the kids I work with etc. I initiated a new schema into reality, effortlessly. All the evidence is there, if we look for it. (That's the manner or mechanism I meant, the brains/minds function of validating thoughts).


Isn't this the same thing that's been said about what the ego does? I see your point, regarding your scientific point of view, but just making an observation.

It's interesting that we immediately hold some ideas to a different standard......if it's in the empirical realm, which is simply a way of categorizing info, we hold the idea to research and truth


Anyone can have an opinion on anything, without the need for evidence, if they so choose. However, when discussing brain functions and saying it's a truth for all , that all our brains work in a certain manner, then I feel science needs to back that up, if it's a scientific point of view. Why? Because, the brain is a part of form and nothing is known about it directly by the person that has the brain without someone else telling them it does this or that through the means of research, studies and testing.

if it's an ancient spiritual construct from thousands of years ago which probably has been so changed and distorted from the original that it might be unrecognizable, we argue it's validity fervently without regard for some empirical evidence. We can't even operationalize the terms; enlightenment, ego, etc.


I can see your point here, however we have sages to references from more recent times, in many cases we can read from question/answer format (Nisargadatta and Ramana) and make our own conclusions, as well as many Youtube videos of Tolle, Mooji ans Papaji. Consciousness can be known through experience or non-experience however you want to term it, by the experiencer themselves. Where as, how the brain functions, is mysterious without the scientist, testing and research. Therefore, one can't really say my brain works like this, but your brain works like that, without research.

Where as with spirituality it is a personal interpretation of given material and experience that causes the various opposing views.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby ashley72 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:42 pm

runstrails wrote:
Ash---you might want to consider this a little deeper. What is out there? Is there an out there?-- human neurons allow perception in 3-D images, a particular color spectrum, a particular frequency range (say roughly between 50Hz and roughly 20K), So very different from how the world appears to a bat, a zebrafish or a slug or whatever species we have not yet discovered in the amazon. So what is this reality that our brains appear to be encoding? Sadly there is not very much research to read on this (perhaps comparative cross-species studies--but those are so intuitive). So here is where science does not go all the way, but scientific contemplation does!


Yes there is an environment independent to the human brain, if you're not sure on that, I imagine you're not sure of anything.

The normal human eye can not detect the whole electromagnetic spectrum of light, but many species can see light with frequencies outside the human "visible spectrum". Bees and many other insects can detect ultraviolet light, which helps them find nectar in flowers. Therefore biological neurons are not limited to just the normal human visible spectrum of light - they have capacity for any part of the spectrum.

Aphakic people are reported to be able to see ultraviolet wavelengths (400 nm - 300 nm) that are normally excluded by the lens. They perceive this light as whitish blue or whitish violet. Aphakia is the absence of the lens of the eye, due to surgical removal, a perforating wound or ulcer, or congenital anomaly.

But just because each biological species might see different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum of light, doesn't mean that we have more than 1 reality... it's just means that each species is limited to its pattern detection or recognition biological hardware.

I think you're very wrong when you state science doesn't go all the way. Have you read about quantum mechanics? Are you aware they are prototyping quantum computers and nuclear fusion generators? In both these technologies the components they affect are far too small to see with the naked eye. But yet scientists build machines that harness the atomic particles of reality! Seems like people know something about the makeup of reality. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to fuse together hydrogen atoms to create helium.

Maybe your the one who needs to delve deeper not me?
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby Onceler » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:51 pm

We all need to delve deeper! Together.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby Phil2 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:59 pm

ashley72 wrote:
Yes there is an environment independent to the human brain, if you're not sure on that, I imagine you're not sure of anything.


You can never be sure of that as everything you perceive comes throught the brain ... how can you be sure that what you call 'environment' is not a production of your own mind ? kind of dream ?

??

There is only one certitude we can be totally sure of: the fact of being ... the "I am" ... all the rest are assumptions ...
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby Onceler » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:50 pm

At this point in my life, I'm definitely losing my certainty about many things.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby SandyJoy » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:03 pm

"Things" cannot come before Awareness.

Awareness is All That Is and It 'comes first' or as it says in Gospel of Thomas "18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will come to pass." Jesus said, "Then have you laid bare the beginning, so that you are seeking the end? For the end will be where the beginning is. Blessed is the person who stands at rest in the beginning. And that person will be acquainted with the end and will not taste death."

The beginning is, of course, Awareness, this Awareness right here and now. This Awareness is All that really "matters" 8) All "matter" exists within Awareness.

It would be simply impossible for some "form-matter-thing" to be 'first'--- It cannot to that. Awareness, Mind, Intelligence, Consciousness MUST exist First. The First and the Last Is Awareness.

Without Awareness-Intelligence-Mind-Consciousness being First 'matter' would not exist. Brains are 'things' -- Things exist appearing as 'matter' which means there are really not 'objective" or "out there" or "yours and mine" ---

This is Love and Love knows that all matter-things, this time-space world exist for the pure joy and pleasure of experiencing God the Divine Light of Our Self. Through this world appearing as this 'form-time-experience' we are experiencing God. God is 'taking place' Here and Now as Life.

Find the Beginning and stay there and when you do, you will know there is no death.

In the knowing that there is no death, we are then fearless and free to Love and to Give.

When your 'brain Loves You and Loves God" It is just simply a trip over the Moon. And It comes along with you to dance in the Unleashed Love.

Dwelling in the Infinite Beauty All is well. Oh Joy to the World.

Not that you need me to say it--- You already know all this--- but The beginning is Awareness---Awareness is "who and what you are"-- Begin with knowing You Exist, You are Here and Now. Then You can enjoy this world of " matter and form' so much more freely when you realize the Only Mind here is God's and God is the Light being every thing -- including the brain or a body.

Saying to Love It all, we do not resist and Love becomes the common denominator for everything. Nothing need be resisted, It is all Good. All of it, when we look deeper, we know this is true.

I guess, I mean that anyone can be free to enjoy this Living Expression of God's Mind which is being All That Is-- This Love Is being the wonderful adventure of Life. To ponder 'brains' as if they are "more important" than any other 'material thing' seems rather dubious--as there simply is NO True Value in the "thing' --no "thing' is more than another 'thing'---They are all made of the same exact 'stuff' of the Light, the Same Filed of Knowing, the Same "Zero Point Light" of God the Absolute One and Only Allness being All that Is.

Oh, and don't forget about the Heart "I have given thee a wise and understanding Heart" -- That does not say I gave you a wise brain.


"I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts"

... The Heart is not made of "matter" it is Something Else, Like a Song, you cannot touch it, but you know it is Real. It is the part of us that is closer to the Truth, It is a very 'special gift' that keeps us close to the Sweet Mystery of Love and Understanding and sits next to Reality. Hold her hand, she will take you there.

Heart and Soul, they are Transcendent and not made of 'matter' --- So if you want to connect with Life, the Heart will do a better job than the 'brain'.

When we listen to the Heart we are listening to the Holy of Holies within consciousness.

I prefer my Heart to my brain any day.

The Heart is the place of knowing, connecting, understanding, seeing, feeling, touching the Truth and Knowing Who You Are. The Heart is the portal, the door to the Light of Unbound Joy. Here we find the bridge between heaven and earth and learn how to Live Wholly and Fully open to this Holy Experience of both time and space and form, while being the Unbound, Free, Fearless Light of Life.

This is the Magical Presence, You are Being It. You are It, your brain is very nice, but it is not the 'answer.

But You, Your Self, You are the Answer. You are this Being Here, Now, You as Self right Here, You are the Wonder, your Identity is the Light of Truth.

God is Good and Thank God for this Total Freedom to Love This World and all that is within It with great passion, kindness, laughter, wonder, purity, Joy and delight-- Total Freedom. Take It and run with It.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby runstrails » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:18 pm

Ashley wrote: doesn't mean that we have more than 1 reality


I totally believe in one reality. I'm the ultimate non-dualist. But what is this one reality? We know bits and pieces of it. Can we ever fully know this mystery that we are :D.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby runstrails » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:02 pm

Onceler wrote:
It's interesting that we immediately hold some ideas to a different standard......if it's in the empirical realm, which is simply a way of categorizing info, we hold the idea to research and truth, if it's an ancient spiritual construct from thousands of years ago which probably has been so changed and distorted from the original that it might be unrecognizable, we argue it's validity fervently without regard for some empirical evidence. We can't even operationalize the terms; enlightenment, ego, etc.


Good stuff Onceler.

In my case, I apply the same standards to science and spirituality. Science is the external evaluation of a testable hypothesis. Spirituality (imo) is the internal evaluation of a testable hypothesis. For example, if you take yoga (and I don't mean asanas but yoga for stilling the mind), meditation or vedanta, I would say that they are still around after centuries because of one simple fact: they work.

On the other hand, intelligent people seem to be leaving organized religion because it does not appear work very well. I wouldn't know though, since I've never been a religious type.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:05 pm

Onceler wrote:At this point in my life, I'm definitely losing my certainty about many things.

Nice! My husband says the only thing he knows is "Uh." And by that he means "something's happening." He likes saying "uh" because it has less words to be tripped up by, to make you think you know something. You could also say, "something's happening I know not what."

Reality is a mysterious thing. I think there is one reality, the absolute reality of Oneness. Then there is an objective reality of coffee cups and trees and robots that all life forms (and some robots!) perceive, even though the details of the perceptions may vary. The bee may have different visual abilities than me but we both move around a tree when it's in our path. Then I think there is a reality we create and that is what I call subjective reality. This is a uniquely human creation, and each one of us has our own personal version. We take objective reality and spin it to match the story of our life. For example, when I see a bee (particularly these days when there's fears of their disappearance) I am happy. Yesterday I spent an enjoyable time watching bees crawl over heal-all (Prunella vulgaris) flowers, which are blooming all over my yard. But someone who is allergic to bee stings would have a completely different reaction. She would look at those bees with fear and would have a lot of trouble enjoying my yard right now. My subjective reality: beautiful bee-covered flowers. Her subjective reality: dangerous patch of grass stay away. Same objective reality--a yard with flowers--but two very different subjective realities.

I think this is the kind of reality that was being discussed in the article Onceler referenced. If I believe the world is a cold heartless place, say, then I will look for confirmation in the world to support that belief. If I get cut off in traffic that confirms it. If a co-worker rushes by without speaking, that confirms it. But if on the other hand I think people are basically good at heart but are being stressed beyond belief in modern society, I will take those same situations and see something completely different. Someone cuts me off in traffic--maybe they're in a hurry to get to the hospital. A co-worker rushes by--I hope nothing bad happened to her this morning at home. The same objective reality, but two completely different subjective realities.

It is in the subjective reality that we have the troubles with what the OP is about--resistance and persistence.

Onceler wrote:We all need to delve deeper! Together.

Yes let's! :D
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:45 pm

KathleenBrugger wrote:
Reality is a mysterious thing. I think there is one reality, the absolute reality of Oneness. Then there is an objective reality of coffee cups and trees and robots that all life forms (and some robots!) perceive, even though the details of the perceptions may vary. The bee may have different visual abilities than me but we both move around a tree when it's in our path. Then I think there is a reality we create and that is what I call subjective reality. This is a uniquely human creation, and each one of us has our own personal version. We take objective reality and spin it to match the story of our life.


This is awesome Kathleen. Exactly how I see it as well.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:54 pm

Fore wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote: Our brains are most CERTAINLY real.

Apparently so. :roll:


Not sure why you keep repeating this on multiple posts. Do you have a brain right now? Do you have arms right now? Do you have legs right now? Therefore, it's REAL. If it exists, it's REAL.
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Re: What you resist persists - why?

Postby runstrails » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:17 pm

Kathleen wrote: Reality is a mysterious thing. I think there is one reality, the absolute reality of Oneness. Then there is an objective reality of coffee cups and trees and robots that all life forms (and some robots!) perceive, even though the details of the perceptions may vary. The bee may have different visual abilities than me but we both move around a tree when it's in our path. Then I think there is a reality we create and that is what I call subjective reality. This is a uniquely human creation, and each one of us has our own personal version. We take objective reality and spin it to match the story of our life. For example, when I see a bee (particularly these days when there's fears of their disappearance) I am happy. Yesterday I spent an enjoyable time watching bees crawl over heal-all (Prunella vulgaris) flowers, which are blooming all over my yard. But someone who is allergic to bee stings would have a completely different reaction. She would look at those bees with fear and would have a lot of trouble enjoying my yard right now. My subjective reality: beautiful bee-covered flowers. Her subjective reality: dangerous patch of grass stay away. Same objective reality--a yard with flowers--but two very different subjective realities.


Nice, Kathleen. I agree about the one reality and the subjective reality. Not so convinced about the objective reality. To a large extent it's consensual certainly, but objective--not so sure. But this does not mean that I don't get out of the way when a bee comes flying in front of me in case I get stung!

What fun delving deeper into the nature of reality!
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