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What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:36 pm
by starting
Carl Jung was the first who said "What you resist persists"
Then, the Universal Law, the LOA...so why?

The Universe gives you more of what you are focusing on, so if you want a "X" situation in your life, of course you do not want a "Y" situation. So, the Universe should respond by saying ok, I will give you more "X" situation. So, why the Universe is always giving you the "Y" situation (what you do not want)?

I think this is really funny btw, he (the Universe) is always giving you what you do not want, even if you want a lot of things? :?
Thank you for your comments.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:55 pm
by dijmart
So why does what you resist persist? Because if you are resisting something you are focusing on that thing, event, situation even if it's something you do not want. What you focus upon expands and persists.

Good example- Recently, I had been soooo tired in the past few months, so tired it was all I could think about. Anyways, I apparently had been thinking about it so much it just got worse and worse. I was confused as to what this tiredness meant. I started a thread "tired of the play" and I got some good advice (and some not so good ..drama). Anyways, I decided there was really nothing I could do about this tiredness it had been with me now for so long (months) and I was going to stop thinking about it, low and behold, it's become manageable in the last week. I can say I actually feel better! I may still be tired, but I'm not focusing on it and I'm not creating any "story" around it, it just is what it is.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:39 pm
by ashley72
Neural networks classify objects or things. If we classify something as undesirable, unpleasant or dangerous we create a nervous response (limbic response).

Cognitive classification therefore can trigger our limbic system to create nerve signals or nervous response.

If we classify a "spider" as undesirable or dangerous our neural network triggers our limbic system to become more alert... Heart rate increase, blood pumping, body temperature increases and cognition actually gets hijacked so we can't think with the same clarity as before.

Dysfunction arises when the neural network also classifies this limbic responses of nervousness as also undesirable or dangerous... Thereby creating a positive feedback loop so we enter an increasing or abnormal state of nervous energy. Where the nervous response to the stimulus is not normal or rational anymore.

The reason someone starts classifying the nervous response as undesirable is because they don't believe that they should be having a nervous response to certain irrational triggers (common phobias). An agoraphobic will enter a shopping mall and have a nervous response to the shopping mall environment... They will classify the nervous response (irrational trigger) as undesirable - further fueling more nervous responses.... A vicious cycle of dysfunction occurs.

This is mechanism is what I believe the idea "what you resists persists" stems from. Your not actually resisting anything your merely incorrectly classifying it as undesirable and causing a nervous response and then classifying the nervous response as undesirable ad-infinitum - causing a positive gain.

Once a suffer sees the trick occur, they realise they need to stop treating or classifying a nervous response as dangerous. A nervous response is a normal nervous system functioning whenever you classify something as undesirable or dangerous. Certain spiders are deadly and can kill you so having a nervous response to danger helps you survive quickly in deadly situations. But if you classify a nervous response itself as deadly or dangerous you cause a nervous system dysfunction.

I've dedicated the past 6 years of my life to understanding how my nervous system works and why nervous dysfunction or illness arises... It's fairly obvious once you understand "first principles".

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:23 pm
by rachMiel
Thanks, Ashley, for the scientific perspective. It feels right to me.

I've found that associating a pain trigger with a positive feeling -- over and over and over, until it "takes" -- significantly reduces the pain that trigger triggers.

For example, say that when I think of my mother, all I can see (in my mind's eye) is her last days in the hospital, in pain, in and out of consciousness, a stick figure compared to her once bigger-than-life self. If I consciously summon forth those painful images, and at the moment they are present *infuse* them with my love for her -- which is, after all, the reason seeing her in pain hurts so much -- eventually when I think of her, either the hospital images will arise but won't be so painful, or memories of her in her earlier strong days will arise. It's pretty amazing, like retraining the brain!

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:47 pm
by starting
So why does what you resist persist? Because if you are resisting something you are focusing on that thing, event, situation even if it's something you do not want. What you focus upon expands and persists.


ashley72 wrote: If we classify something as undesirable, unpleasant or dangerous we create a nervous response (limbic response).


thank you dijmart and ashley,

so what you are saying is that actually things are happening...and it will depend on how your neural networks classify objects or things or situations...

If we classify something as undesirable, unpleasant or dangerous we create a nervous response and it will appear as "more important" and due to this we will observe it frequently, or it will be easy to "see" this situation around us, or we will judge it as ocurring frequently in our lives, but in fact it is just happening, not only with you, or not in response of what your wishes are?

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:42 am
by peas
Because what you resist is you.

"The observer is the observed" - J Krishnamurti.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:31 am
by ashley72
peas wrote:Because what you resist is you.

"The observer is the observed" - J Krishnamurti.


Yes, but it is because the observer classifies its own observer response as "dangerous" (the observed). This creates a positive feedback loop.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:40 am
by ashley72
starting wrote:so what you are saying is that actually things are happening...and it will depend on how your neural networks classify objects or things or situations...

If we classify something as undesirable, unpleasant or dangerous we create a nervous response and it will appear as "more important" and due to this we will observe it frequently, or it will be easy to "see" this situation around us, or we will judge it as ocurring frequently in our lives, but in fact it is just happening, not only with you, or not in response of what your wishes are?


When a neural network classifies something it creates a nervous response.

If it classifies something as undesirable or unpleasant or dangerous you get a specific kind of nervous response (sweaty palms, rapid heart rate, shallow breathing etc.)

If the neural network than classifies the nervous response itself (particular in the absence of external danger) as "undesirable, unpleasant, dangerous" you get the same nervous response but much more powerful than before. It is a positive feedback loop.

The only way to fix this dysfunction is to stop classifying the "nervous response" as dangerous. This way you stop feeding a positive feedback loop. A positive feedback loop will only persist as long as you keep mis-classifying its own response to "danger" as => "dangerous".

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:12 am
by smiileyjen101
DJ said: I can say I actually feel better! I may still be tired, but I'm not focusing on it and I'm not creating any "story" around it, it just is what it is.

:D Nice to hear you gave your self a break DJ

Sometimes what we are resisting is trying to tell us something, that a 'shift' in perspective maybe, is required in order to bring harmony with 'what is'.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:24 am
by dijmart
smiileyjen101 wrote:
DJ said: I can say I actually feel better! I may still be tired, but I'm not focusing on it and I'm not creating any "story" around it, it just is what it is.

:D Nice to hear you gave your self a break DJ

Sometimes what we are resisting is trying to tell us something, that a 'shift' in perspective maybe, is required in order to bring harmony with 'what is'.


Now, I got that non-resistance is the only way to be in acceptance to "what is", so there was a lesson to be learned from it. I was pushing it away, which made me think of and project into the future.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:21 am
by Phil2
Carl Jung was the first who said "What you resist persists"
Then, the Universal Law, the LOA...so why?


Because the Universe is not separate from you ... so your thought and particularly your emotions (anger, fear etc ...) influence the way things happen ...

When asked to participate in an anti-war demonstration, Mother Teresa answered:

“I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there.”

In fact you attract what you fight.

And btw Carl Jung was Swiss German speaking, the original quote in German is:

"Wogegen du kämpfst, das bleibt"


The exact translation would be: "Whatever you fight, it remains (or it perpetuates)"

Did you read the book "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne ? ... if not I recommend it ... :idea:

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:20 pm
by Onceler
dijmart wrote:So why does what you resist persist? Because if you are resisting something you are focusing on that thing, event, situation even if it's something you do not want. What you focus upon expands and persists.

Good example- Recently, I had been soooo tired in the past few months, so tired it was all I could think about. Anyways, I apparently had been thinking about it so much it just got worse and worse. I was confused as to what this tiredness meant. I started a thread "tired of the play" and I got some good advice (and some not so good ..drama). Anyways, I decided there was really nothing I could do about this tiredness it had been with me now for so long (months) and I was going to stop thinking about it, low and behold, it's become manageable in the last week. I can say I actually feel better! I may still be tired, but I'm not focusing on it and I'm not creating any "story" around it, it just is what it is.


You put a frame around it and hung it on your wall? Thanks, this helps me think thru some things in my own life. I am noticing this pattern as well.....we certainly do energize situations and states far beyond their natural course.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:09 pm
by ashley72
Phil2 wrote:Because the Universe is not separate from you ... so your thought and particularly your emotions (anger, fear etc ...) influence the way things happen ...


Not exactly.

The environment and the human nervous system are two distinct domains. A nervous system can actually classify non-linear patterns in its environment including itself and devise causal linear approximations. It's not always correct, and this is why dysfunction can arise in the nervous system.

A Mind-body organism is a complex "nervous system", which can classify environmental patterns using a massive array of neurons (80 billion). When the pattern detection classifies its own responses .... Feedback loops occur in the system. In the unusual case where the very nervous response to danger, is also classified as "danger" you form a "positive" feedback loop. In other words, the nervous response increases in amplitude of the nervous response until the classification of danger ceases. Which naturally occurs when the nervous system becomes distracted over time and stops classifying its own response as dangerous (negative feedback loop kicks in) which decreases the nervous response. The sufferer generally concludes that what it did saved it from danger... Removing itself or avoiding an external stimulus. So they mistakenly classify or pair an external stimulus with danger. But obscured is the fact that they mis-classified the "response" as dangerous and tricky nature of positive feedback loops. Once a person realises that classifying the response as dangerous leads to panic cycles... They can stop classifying the response as dangerous.... Positive feedback loops don't form... And persistent nervous illness will no longer occur.

There is nothing wrong with perceiving yourself as separate to the environment, this alone does not create suffering... It's the incorrect classification of the systems response that creates nervous illness which needs to be prevented through understanding the mechanics of the nervous system. Seeing yourself as doer and doing things like having a family, a career, finding a place to live, having social networks is completely normal for a nervous system navigating its environment.

Spiritual concepts about "oneness" is just a load of rubbish. Oneness doesn't explain anything about nervous illness or mental suffering.

If you want to understand mental illness or nervous illness you need to learn about neural networks and how they act on our limbic system, from there you learn about cybernetics and how positive & negative feedback acts on regulatory systems. Suffering is basically a "system" that is suffering from instability - nothing to do with oneness!

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:40 pm
by ashley72
dijmart wrote:So why does what you resist persist? Because if you are resisting something you are focusing on that thing, event, situation even if it's something you do not want. What you focus upon expands and persists.


If you classify something as "dangerous" in your environment, your limbic system responses to help you fight, freeze or flee. It's a survival system for a nervous system in a hostile environment. As soon as you remove yourself from danger, you stop classifying the environment as dangerous so the nervous system returns to a harmonious state. This is how a nervous system works normally.

But if the nervous system starts to classify benign things in its environment like its own nervous responses as dangerous... you have a dysfunctional nervous system - which is called nervous illness!

Nervous illness can persist if not treated!

To treat the illness you have to examine it. In the case of panic attacks, it usually occurs because the sufferer is misclassifying there own nervous responses as dangerous. If they stop doing that they won't have panic attacks anymore.

If I don't like eating eggs, I won't eat them. Resisting eating eggs, won't make eggs persist. Resistance isn't a problem with external stimulus, it's important to resist things in our environment. If someone tried to beat me up, I would resist them. If I knock them out... The fight would not persist!

Resistance in itself is not a problem, and resistance doesn't lead to persistence. I can resist the wind blowing me over... The wind isn't persisting because I'm resisting it... The wind and me have separate causation.

Re: What you resist persists - why?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:07 pm
by Phil2
ashley72 wrote:
Phil2 wrote:Because the Universe is not separate from you ... so your thought and particularly your emotions (anger, fear etc ...) influence the way things happen ...


Not exactly.
...

Spiritual concepts about "oneness" is just a load of rubbish. Oneness doesn't explain anything about nervous illness or mental suffering.

If you want to understand mental illness or nervous illness you need to learn about neural networks and how they act on our limbic system, from there you learn about cybernetics and how positive & negative feedback acts on regulatory systems. Suffering is basically a "system" that is suffering from instability - nothing to do with oneness!


Well you probably say this because you identify yourself with a physical form: the body and its neural network ...

I think that Eckhart Tolle explained quite well that your very essence is neither physical nor psychological form, and that all psychological problems, including mental illnesses, originate from this erroneous identification ... did you read Tolle's books ? or listen to his talks ?

??