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Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:08 am
by David92506
I belong to a group of people who are into the LOA and other books with the same theme, but not Eckhart Tolle. We always argue when it comes to Karma. They are a firm believer of, "What goes around comes around." "Put out good and you get good. Put out bad and you get bad."

One member recently got fired from his job. He told the group how horrible and mean his boss is. He was unfairly terminated. The group said, "Don't worry about it, your boss will get his." I confided with one member and asked isn't Karma a way of judging? Who determines if the boss's actions is good or bad? For all we know, the boss may have believed this employee was stealing from the company.

1. If something "bad" happens to me then it must mean that I did something "bad" in my past?
2. It seems to me that Karma is a personal viewpoint, a way of justifying the world. To make sure everything is fair and even in the long run.
3. For every "good" you do won't someone consider it "bad?" For example, if I mowed the elderly lady's lawn for free, the person who makes a living off mowing lawns will consider it bad for business.
4. Who judges what is "good" and what is "bad?"

When I discuss Karma with the group it usually ends up people getting upset at me and telling me I "just don't understand the LOA."

I was hoping to find someone who believes in Karma who could answer my questions.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:17 am
by karmarider
Karma is just a concept, and its meaning has changed considerably from Hinduism, where it seems to mean action without worrying about the results (karma yoga), to Buddhism, where it seems to mean cause-and-effect of actions, to the contemporary western interpretation where it seems to mean some sort of cosmic debit-and-credit accounting system. As you point out, on what basis this system runs and what is good and what is bad is unclear. It's interesting that people are inclined to believe that the universe is harsh, unforgeting, and unforgivingly judgemental.

I don't find the concept of karma to be very useful or consistent and I don't see much evidence of it. I do see that in a mind which is unobserved, fear/conditioning/ego run the game. A more conscious mind is more present and less affected by the past. That kind of karma makes sense to me.

The group you belong to seems to believe that that concept of karma is tied in with the LOA. I'm not an expert on either but I've never heard of this. As far as I know, the LOA is based on the idea that consciousness creates reality and not the idea that what-goes-around-comes-around.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:51 pm
by Webwanderer
For the most part karma and LoA are misunderstood concepts. While LoA is not at its root a concept, the perception of it generally is. My sense is that karma is more concept than not.

1. If something "bad" happens to me then it must mean that I did something "bad" in my past?

No. If something 'bad' happens to you it's likely because you hold a perception that some things 'should be' and others 'should not'. The 'bad' stuff is simply the stuff we don't want and resist. That resistance to what is is the quality that makes circumstances feel painful and thus 'bad'. We create 'bad' by our applied perception. It is not an inherent quality.

2. It seems to me that Karma is a personal viewpoint, a way of justifying the world. To make sure everything is fair and even in the long run.

As a concept, that is much of what the perception of Karma has devolved into. And one can create a world view (many have) based on such a concept and perception. As your friends have demonstrated, it gives one the feeling and satisfaction of Cosmic payback. In a universe based in Love and expansion however, it's just not how things work. Consider, who exactly would payback-karma be for? The ego perspective that persists only while humanly focused? A perspective that likely evaporates through the awakening to a greater reality of being in the process we call death?

As souls, our true nature, we explore possibilities of being. The human experience is just one such possibility. Perspectives don't learn. Consciousness does. Perspectives are a result of experience and the assumptions made from that experience. Karma, if anything, is the resulting experience of conditions based on our adopted assumptions/beliefs.

3. For every "good" you do won't someone consider it "bad?" For example, if I mowed the elderly lady's lawn for free, the person who makes a living off mowing lawns will consider it bad for business.

It's quite possible. These considerations of good and bad are based on one's egoic beliefs and perspectives toward life. Our experience will always be reflected through the lens our beliefs. When one is clear on this (which then changes core beliefs), one can begin to make different/better choices in how to perceive events, thus changing one's experience in life or one's karma.

4. Who judges what is "good" and what is "bad?"

Each of us does our own judging through our own egoic perspective. A perspective of judgment is born of an extremely limited point of view.

From the Soul perspective, no judgment is made. Only Love and appreciation for its own extension and child of being. We knew, in our Soul perspective that life in this human world would be challenging. We knew that we would be entrained with misconceptions, and that those misconceptions could create painful experiences through misdirected choices. But we also knew that there was much to be gained in the expansion of consciousness through the challenge of creating a more joyful human experience - and that however life unfolded, facing the challenge alone would bring great benefit.

There was never going to be any fault to be cast from this Origin of human-life Soul, for however the human experience unfolded. Human being is after all, a fragment of the Soul's own Self that is living the human experience. Why would it offer anything but Love?

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:13 pm
by bf2
Hi David92506,
You are absolutely correct in that there is no such thing called good karma or bad karma. The universe couldn't care less about whether you feed a kitten or skin it alive. God doesn't care if you worship Him or steal from the local church fund.

What does matter is what you believe. If you skin the kitten alive and believe in your mind (consciously, or as is the case usually, unconsciously) that something 'bad' (i.e. something that YOU call bad) will happen to you because of your action, then there is a strong chance that it will.

If on the other hand, you believe that you are the best kitten-skinner in the world and your whole life purpose is to skin kittens, chances are nothing 'bad' will ever happen to you, and you will keep getting better and better as a kitten skinner, and you'd take it to an art form.

That's all there is to it.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:09 pm
by randomguy
Please don't hurt kittens.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:15 pm
by stefano2015
Karma is just a way to show peolpe that they can be good and receive good.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:17 pm
by David92506
stefano2015 wrote:Karma is just a way to show peolpe that they can be good and receive good.


Who determines that it's good? Al Capone thought he was doing good by killing the competition. And he received good by owning Chicago. In his view, he did good and received good.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:30 pm
by coriolis
Karma is the human mind's incomplete understanding of the implications of oneness.

There is no self and other.

Therefore if one hurts the conceptualized other pain will be felt in the conceptualized self -- for they are really one.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:44 pm
by Enlightened2B
Karma, to me, has been a misinterpreted term, largely by organized religion and eastern philosophies, especially in its relationship with re-incarnation which is often perceived as a bad thing.

The more involved I've delved into soul planning and near death experiences, it's become clearer what karma actually is/means, at least in my own perception.

From my understanding, we choose to incarnate into physical life as part of soul groups to experience and learn particular lessons for that particular soul group and most of all for the experience of Love that we could only learn while in separateness/relationships with others/other things. Therefore, karma is more about what we come into this life to resolve/experience that we've carried over from previous lives, in order to better understand our own nature as Love from the experience of physical separateness, as opposed to something 'good/bad'. We incarnate and experience every range of humanness and non humanness until all of our potential lessons/experiences have been covered. Good/bad are relative terms that have no meaning from the larger perspective. There is no judgment either. We might even incarnate to help a particular soul group member simply out of love for that other soul perspective when it's not even needed for us. Yet, there is no 'punishment' for acting a certain way in a previous life. If we go through an entire life with a very low unconscious vibration, then we will simply have an opportunity to work on that in our next life. But, there is no forcing of you to incarnate and have to experience the 'karmic' results of your actions. That's religious nonsense.

If something 'bad' happens to you, it is only perceived as 'bad' from the limited human mind. From the greater perspective, perhaps, the 'bad' event is something that very well, might have been pre-planned prior to incarnation for the experience of growth and evolution of not only your soul perspective, but to raise the vibration level for other soul perspectives in helping the planet itself.

So, karma is based on a choice that we make. And all that we experience as 'good/bad' is the result of our focused attention which creates our own percpetion, which is why healing is so vital in each life to work on the unresolved emotional stuff that gets carried over from life to life. All perceived 'bad' events, are merely opportunities for growth and evolution of our own and other soul perspectives.

Just my two cents.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:55 am
by CaiHong
Interesting topic, I must read up on the Law of Attraction, I know nothing about it. I do not what to sound flippant but someone brought up the subject of kittens and I have been going through a bit of a dilemma that sort of relates to the OP.

I have moved recently and in my last place I fed a stray mother cat and then her kittens. I thought once I move they can learn to fend for themselves but I was torn between catching them or leaving them to their fate. Anyway I have ended up back to my old place and leaving them a big bowl of food every day. Why do I feed them and not just leave them to their fate. Am I making them weak by not allowing hunger to hone their hunting skills.

Now I come to the part where the talk of whether or not the universe really cares if I feed the kittens or not but I can't speak for the universe but only only myself and my own actions. I love the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
I feel the bigger more important question is right action and what determines right action for you. For me it feels right. A bit loose I know but effective.

OP you reminded me why I dislike groups, toeing the party line!

Thanks for an interesting topic I have been enjoying pondering it all morning.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:02 am
by Mystic
Since we are all parts of the Universal Oneness, then Karma and Law of Attraction seem to be saying that by giving to others in the universe, we are giving to ourselves and by taking away from others in the universe, we are taking away from ourselves. We are all one :D

Theoretically speaking, using the idea of Law of Attraction to get rich could be a distraction that might block spiritual growth but some people might be at a stage in their spiritual and physical lifetimes that they need and want to experience material wealth.

As long as there are other people in the world who are not even getting their basic needs of food and shelter met though, I have no desire to be rich. What can we do? Many little small acts of kindness and gentleness, like feeding kittens and helping our neighbor can add up over time, to change the world.

Re: Karma - Who Is The Judge

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:18 pm
by Manyana
Mystic wrote: As long as there are other people in the world who are not even getting their basic needs of food and shelter met though, I have no desire to be rich. What can we do? Many little small acts of kindness and gentleness, like feeding kittens and helping our neighbor can add up over time, to change the world.


Hi Mystic, I like your post, Eckhart gives a good answer here to the "What can we do?"

"What is my responsibility" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DgPaoObetE