The Secret vs. Ekchart???

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Postby heidi » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:55 am

Okay, I concur, "we" don't necessarily think things into action, the universe puts a bee in our bonnet, and we have a choice to act or not, we can listen or ignore, the rest or move. And it's all good.
Heidi
http://www.heidimayo.com
wonderment on the third wave
User avatar
heidi
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2703
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 am
Location: 42nd parallel, Massachusetts, USA

Postby erict » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:38 am

Blenderhead wrote:The secret is a bunch of crap. First humans should seek the formless, the rest comes by itself. But the secret is about "using" a universal law in the service of ego. I hate it, maybe there is something I've misunderstood, but so far this teaching seems like total crap to me. Maybe because I'm not interested in getting a big house. The only thing that interest me is the total end of desire, where I'm totally surrendered to everything.


Now this is funny. Someone comes along and explains to you about how the universe works, tells you about a law of the universe, just like gravity, so that you can take it into account and have a better understanding of how things work, so you get less of what you don't want and more of what you do want. Either you agree that it is true, or that it isn't. But your position is just so funny. This evil, egoic secret, all about the ego manipulating reality, evil thing. Why do people have to always take extreme positions?

What is particularly funny is your attitude toward evil egoic wanting, when it comes to a house. But when the ego is desiring the end of desiring, it's not evil, huh? :D You actually think you're better than others, because you have "spiritual" desires, rather than "material" ones. You're just sooo funny. Like there's something wrong with wanting a big, comfortable house and a new car. This reminds me of one of Eckhart's talks, when he's talking about the guy who gave up his BMW, and now riding a bike, thinking to himself, how spiritual he is, and how unspiritual that guy who is still riding his BMW is.

The secret talks about a law of the universe. Not a law that you could use if you decided to. A law that you are using whether you are aware of it or not, and it's simply about being more aware of what you are creating on more than just the level of action.

Also, I'd like to add, that you'd do yourself a favor to get over your ideals about spirituality and enlightenment and see that creating material things has its place too.

It's not that I'm a big fan of The Secret, although I do believe that essentially what they are talking about is very true. But I just had to point out how funny your ego is. I guess that's my thing, it seems. I just can't help it, when I see an ego acting all enlightened, it's hard to keep my mouth shut.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a very egoic 22 year old. ;)
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel

Postby erict » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:58 am

Blenderhead wrote: The essense of all spiritual teachings is surrender, it's not about using some law to improve your life. My life isn't important, this world can give me cancer any day, I won't cry. But I guess a lot of business men and selfish people are drawn to the secret, because their egos feel comfortable this ridiculous teaching.


LOL

It's 4 AM and I haven't really read your post fully and carefully before replying. The second part of it is even better than the first, which compelled me to reply. You are just so funny! :D

Good luck getting your cancer. I recommend a lot of smoking. And while you're at it, I wouldn't mind if you give me all your money and possessions. I guess I'm okay with being a selfish, evil egoic entity and trying to improve my life.

My god, I keep reading your post, and it's just so funny!!! Those evil, egoic business men, and all the rest of the shallow people who are actually trying to improve their lives! If only more people were as spiritual as you are. :wink:

Just a word of advice, don't take your ego so seriously, and watch it more carefully, because if you don't, look what happens! :D It gets all self-righteous and starts thinking it's better than other ego's because it's so selfless and spiritual.
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel

Postby Blenderhead » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:26 am

It is rather late, I'm reading what you have said to me, but I can't think of anything to say yet :)

But thanks for your comments :P
Blenderhead
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Denmark

Reread of Stuart's Analysis

Postby Techguy » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:24 pm

I am the first to stand up and shout "THE EGO IS NOT EVIL!! THE EGO IS NOT BAD!! IT HAS GOTTEN A RAW DEAL FROM SPIRITUALITY! LET THE EGO BE WHAT IT ITS!!!" In fact, the ego is quite literally one of the most astonishing miracles to occur in the history of Universe. No joke. Celebrate it. It's time we ended the spiritual war with the ego, include it as another facet of the Beauty in our Being. Why would we leave anything out? The self counts. The ego matters.

I also have to say: The ego is not the Self.

The Secret is selling tools that supposedly fulfill wishes, dreams, desires. But WHOSE wishes? What LEVEL of desire? What DEPTH of dream?

Well, here's what sucks about The Secret: There are many levels of self, but only one which THINKS, and that's the Ego. Thinking, feeling, thinking, feeling, these two conductors are the hub for all The Secret espouses, and sadly thoughts and feelings (while important and valid) come from an extremely shallow dimension of the self. Because of this, the Secret deeply, sadly, entangles us further into suffering instead of liberating us from it. The source of suffering is delusion -the illusion of separateness. It gives rise to craving, longing, desire. It's the illusion that we lack something that sends us on the Odyssey of Acquisition.

The Secret gives us a cure that's worse than the disease.

The Secret speaks to materialism, narcissism, and other afflictions of self by sanctifying them, exalting them. Rather than liberate us from the Source of Suffering, The Secret reenforces it. It anchors us in the shallowest level of our self (the Ego) and consecrates its preferences, its fantasies.



In all fairness, I had to read Stuarts narrative and critique of "The Secret" more closely.
I find him to be insightful, but the jury of my ego is still out on weather or not the ego is an "astonishing miracle". My ego liked a lot of his thoughts though.
User avatar
Techguy
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:29 am
Location: Spanaway, WA, USA

Postby Now_in_CO » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 pm

I watched a friend's copy of the DVD (which around Boulder Colorado runs for about $35). Granted I only watched the DVD and have not read the book; maybe the book contains vital details about "the secret" that are missing in the DVD. I did my best to make lemonade from this lemon of a marketing gimmick: it did a great service for me, creating space for me to wonder: when is my appropriate "critical thinking" form (or formlessness?) engaged and when is my plain old "judging" and exclusionary thinking apparent? I judged from the nearly beginning - their idea that the robber barons of old had some great secret, visualization, and, boom, it explains their wealth. It seemed to extoll a game show message to me: behind (the secret ) door No. 1, this could be yours too! As if exploitation was a spiritual path. At least that is what they seemed to be implying by bringing up the robber barons and other tyrants and explaining how they got so much cool stuff. I recall a passage in the bible that says I am everything I need; I am. That to me seems like the real secret eluding our materialist culture which I'm apart of. I would have preferred a Secret that tell us how to enjoy a deep, joyous life with less, not more. That's the bigger secret to me: how do enjoy life with "less" when we are socialized from an early age to accumulate, to one-up our neighbors, to want more? The DVD, at least, appears to be dishonest in the conspiratorial proclamation of a "secret" (what evidence do they have that the Rockefellers and the like actually actively visualized their power, their vast wealth? At least, I didn't see or hear any convincing evidence in the secret DVD); and they are promoting an old idea (more is better) that absoluely needs to be reevaluated in light of our over-exploitation of our planet: how much is enough? The other opinion that arose is how first-world of them to mix God with material satisfaction when much of Africa can't get the rainfall they need to even live. I mean, if their idea is correct - just visualize, have a strong intention to "own it!" and you will receive - it just doesn't cover the realities of most of the third world, where simple survival is a daily struggle and concern. Sure, I feel that being positive is a great thing; for example, visualizing success in a public speech, is a great tool, a helpful approach to nervousness. This movie will help some people trapped in vicious thought cycles, no doubt. But to package a basic truth of Pysch 101 as "The Secret," and creating an illusory story behind it (wealthy people have secretly known about this for ages and now the truth is out!), and charging people a fair amount of money, seems, well, sad, especially sad in light of that there are other resources out there, free or nearly so, that say much more to the human condition and how to rise above it (starting with meditation... why not tap into our own Secrets?)
dan
Now_in_CO
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:44 am
Location: boulder

Postby Blenderhead » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:28 pm

Down with the secret! :twisted:
Blenderhead
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Denmark

Postby Blenderhead » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:33 am

...
Last edited by Blenderhead on Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blenderhead
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Denmark

Postby Blenderhead » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:35 am

...
Last edited by Blenderhead on Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blenderhead
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Denmark

Postby Blenderhead » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:35 am

...
Last edited by Blenderhead on Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blenderhead
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Denmark

Postby Ives » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Blenderhead wrote:Three words: Fuck the secret


Get to the point, will you?
Ives
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Tuscany, Italy

Postby Intel » Wed May 09, 2007 9:55 am

My mum gave me the secret book although after waiting for that tiresome 'secret' to be revealed I couldn't be bothered to read on. I read 'Ask And It Is Given' by Esther and Jerry Hicks before. She made a lot of money but virtually writing the same book they wrote, except adding various quotes from those highly regarded in history and religion to back up her statements.

My main concern with this book is that it doesn't address the problem of the incessant stream of thought. It encourages you to think more of pursuit of having the whole world if your thinking is in order. It is better to find inner peace and become free from your life suitation. You'll find that quite naturally through this you will attract more 'positive' experiences.

This will also free you from constantly looking to the next moment for your next desire to be fulfilled.
I would lick your feet, but is that the sickest move?
User avatar
Intel
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:34 pm
Location: Near wild heaven

Postby kiki » Wed May 09, 2007 12:37 pm

Intel wrote:My main concern with this book is that it doesn't address the problem of the incessant stream of thought. It encourages you to think more of pursuit of having the whole world if your thinking is in order. It is better to find inner peace and become free from your life suitation. You'll find that quite naturally through this you will attract more 'positive' experiences.

Yup. You've put your finger exactly on the dynamic that separates awakening from the idea that having every desire fulfilled will bring happiness.
User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Postby heidi » Wed May 09, 2007 3:53 pm

...the dynamic that separates awakening [is] the idea that having every desire fulfilled will bring happiness.


I'm thinking we might make a topic called Quotes from Kiki. Succinct and to the point. :)
Heidi
http://www.heidimayo.com
wonderment on the third wave
User avatar
heidi
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2703
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 am
Location: 42nd parallel, Massachusetts, USA

Postby too haht tzay » Fri May 11, 2007 12:20 am

...
Last edited by too haht tzay on Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
too haht tzay
 

PreviousNext

Return to Law of Attraction

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron