The Secret vs. Ekchart???

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Postby Intel » Mon May 14, 2007 10:34 pm

Dude, the universe doesn't quite work that way. Cast a desire to fly(which almost every human has had at least once) and see if it manifests in your life.
I would lick your feet, but is that the sickest move?
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THE SECRET

Postby esobral » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:53 am

I just watched the secret the sequence and read all of our writings. It was very enlighten to me to see your thoughts it is great but do you think that Eckhart sometimes is too simple regarding the laws of the universe!!!
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Postby kiki » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:52 am

esobral wrote:but do you think that Eckhart sometimes is too simple regarding the laws of the universe!!!


One should be wary of equating tapping into the "laws of the universe" for some sort of gain with waking up. The thrust of ET and other similar teachers is to point the way to awaken out of identification with the egoic sense. Any "law of the universe" is within the provence of manifestation, the abode of the mind and egoic sense, while awakening is the transcendence of manifestation to consciously embrace one's unmanifest nature. To take advantage of any so called "laws" may indeed require mental manipulation of varying degrees of complexity, but the awakened state needs no complex mental manipulation in order to be realized. Indeed, any use of manipulation of any sort only obscures awakening.

So the question is "What do I really want?" If you want to have your desires fulfilled then explore the "laws of the universe". On the other hand, if awakening is what's important then find that which is most simple, and in the finding of that there will be found no manipulation of anything.

Edited to add: Welcome to the board, esobral
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Postby lucy » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:27 pm

So Kiki are you saying that having fulfilment of desires and awakening are mutally exclusive? I thought awakening led to realizing that there is no one who desires anything other than what is. In turn, what you want and "What is" merge so there is no more desire.
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Postby too haht tzay » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:42 pm

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Last edited by too haht tzay on Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kiki » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:20 am

lucy wrote:So Kiki are you saying that having fulfilment of desires and awakening are mutally exclusive? I thought awakening led to realizing that there is no one who desires anything other than what is. In turn, what you want and "What is" merge so there is no more desire.


Awakening leads to the discovery that there is nobody "here" to begin with; therefore, "desires" are fictional as well - they are creations of the fictional me. The fictional me thinks that by fulfilling desires happiness, wholeness, and fulfillment will be found. It is this thinking that leads to suffering and continued searching.

When awake there there is no one desiring anything, not even desiring what is becaue nobody is here. What is found is just "what is" - there isn't anyone here to even desire that - everything is simply seen as it is by nobody in particular. Desire has nothing to take root in and propel a search for anything "more".

Should desire make an appearance it is seen for what it is, the re-appearance of the fictional me. In the seeing of that the fictional me no longer creates a trap to get lost in. That fictional me is just witnessed as an arising within consciousness/You, but that fictional me no longer has the capacity to generate unconsciousness of one's essential nature anymore. In other words, You are free of delusion.
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Thanks!

Postby TolleFan » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:24 pm

Wow, did I go up and down and around reading this thread! Thanks for the ride posters!

In the end I had to agree with Kiki. It all comes down to what you desire.

And no desire is "superior" to the other. Only preferred by the individual, or not.

And overall, what I desire is more along the lines of what ET preaches, as opposed to The Secret.

Then again, there are times when I desire material things, and those times are all part of the experience - not something to be cursed.
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Cancer?

Postby TolleFan » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:31 pm

By the way, I wonder where something like "manifesting cancer out of your body" falls?

Or rather, manifesting a spontaneous remission.
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not compatable

Postby radioclash911 » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:20 am

hello,

i honestly think the two views are not compatable.... what if you wish for eternal life.. that is... not to die.....??? that is resisting life... to resist what is ...in eckhart's philosophy is the cause of suffering....

life is not what we want it to be...... life is bigger than our ego desires...

at least that's how it seems to me....

:D
peace be with you
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the secret vs tolle

Postby proudlybeing » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:36 am

My eyes are watering from the length of this thread, !! he he

I just wonder, (having seen the 'secret, and read the book', it seems that there is a lot of discussion here about the 'thoughts become things' aspect
of 'the secret'. and the obvious conatation of being tied to the form, egoic fullfilment. but 'the secret' also talks of 'feeling as though you already have it'
I just wonder if the 'feeling' here becomes a portal, because my particular slant on this was that I imagined what I really wanted, and if you take the 'supermarket of the universe analogy' It's a bit like as a child being set loose in a lollyshop and being told you can have anything that you want, no limits, suddenly you feel , the thrill has gone, there's only so much that will really interest you if there are no limits. So the whole thing for me was to in fact bring me back to what was important, really important to me, so I in fact desire less but 'feel'
more. I would say that because of a certain amount of commercialism
involved with' the secret', it may indeed be a little 'hyped up' oh ok a lot,
but i do find that it works. the reference to negativity is very real from my point of view, I have no doubt that the negative attracts more negative. (this line is from a song i wrote recently) Some people spend their lives looking for negativity, so it should be no surprise , that negatives are all that they can see .
bless you all P.B
My heart (and being) felt thanks to the force(es) than bring me to share this site and journey with you all.
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Re: The Secret vs. Ekchart???

Postby Slyder » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:47 pm

I would recommend "living a life of inner peace" by Eckhart, for anyone who is interested in the secret/law of attraction.

It is a very funny talk, and he mentions playing with the world of form, and getting things like houses and cars.

I just love this talk!
http://www.eckharttolle.com/store/index ... 0&parent=2
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Re: The Secret vs. Ekchart???

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:50 pm

Thanks for the link Slyder. :)
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Re: The Secret vs. Ekchart???

Postby theophilus41 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:49 am

Hello All,
I am new to this site and to Tolle, but U.S. Andersen speaks to our being the Observer of our thoughts and also that our thoughts become things and circumstances in our lives. He wrote a book in 1954 called, Three Magic Words. I think it combines the ideas expressed in the Power of Now and A New Earth with the ancient idea that thoughts are creative. I don't see these two things as contradictory. It is also my current understanding that my ego isn't wrong or bad---it just isn't conscious. I believe that my thoughts coupled with desire manifest as forms and situations in my life. Andersen suggests that the only real responsibility that we have in life is to be aware of being the Observer of our thoughts and dwell only thoughts that are positive and loving.

-Theo
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Re: The Secret vs. Ekchart???

Postby theophilus41 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:57 am

Oh I don't know? A desire to fly preceeded the invention of airplanes. Also, there are stories about a guy who was supposedly able to walk on water. Just because only a handful of folks have as yet mastered their thoughts and desires so as to be able to perform what the rest of us would see as miraculous, doesn't mean that the universe doesn't work that way.

-Theo
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Re: The Secret vs. Ekchart???

Postby ninjin » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:13 am

The secret is if you want something you have to work for it. Everyone featured in the movie as I remember has worked hard to get where they are. Affirmations might get you off your ass and do something but it won't do anything else.
There is no such thing as the Law of Attraction.
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