The Law of Confusion- an essay

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby garuda » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:40 pm

Ananda,
I hate it when people like you present vague, indecisive, wishy-washy, middle-of-the-road opinions on what you think. Now tell us how you really feel ! :lol:

Seriously, your excellent, analytical presentation was quite pointed and exquisite. Nice work! You don’t leave much to the imagination. And I agree, sleepy (unconscious) populations can easily be seduced into adopting mind-game mechanisms to get what they only think they want. Mis-use may be more detrimental than helpful, when misunderstood. The sleepy ones may completely miss the point of any possible underlying mysticism behind any potential benefit LoA might offer. Potential benefits that Heidi alludes to.


Heidi,
I also agree with your open-mindedness. I’m constantly amazed at your always open and accepting attitude toward everything and everybody. Refreshing for many to see! But we gotta toughen you up a little or you won’t survive in the sandbox. (joking). And yes, I believe LoA potentially could have a positive outcome — IF the opening of the heart AND acceptance of “what is” is its byproduct, as you suggest. But I fear that more often than not, the actual practical result might be that a sleepy and largely egocentric population will mis-use the LoA for ego-gratification, selfish-gain, and self-deception — mostly in direct opposition to real spiritual growth or realization. But I hope you are right, for the sake of those who remain slumbering under the spell of LoA.

And also, I love your Freke (not freak) interpretation — excellent reminder that makes us smile in knowing.



Sighclone wrote:The key is lucidity, the rest is theater, but theater suffused with Big Love.

Andy


Andy,
Very nicely put. Straight to the heart!
Recognize present awareness......... rest in that awareness..........don’t become distracted.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby olive » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:39 am

Isn't LOA a modern name of a siddhi (Prākāmya) mentioned in Bhagavata Purana (11:15:4)?

I know that many Hindu and Bhuddism teachings consider siddhis to be a hindrance to spiritual progress, though they may come as by-products of the progress.
Realization must be amidst all the turmoils of life. ~Ramana Maharshi
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Sighclone » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:23 pm

olive -

That could easily be the case - could you post a translation of that for us?

Siddhi's are distractions, as are all "spiritual powers." Adya goes on and on about this, esp in his lengthy, wonderful 2002 interview with Bonnie Greenwell (Cafe Dharma, Audio Library Archive ID #64. Absolutely the best $10 you will spend this week!!)

My understanding of this siddhi is that it has or can have instantaeous "results," if it is the one I am dimly recalling.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby olive » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:11 am

Sighclone wrote:olive -

That could easily be the case - could you post a translation of that for us?

Siddhi's are distractions, as are all "spiritual powers." Adya goes on and on about this, esp in his lengthy, wonderful 2002 interview with Bonnie Greenwell (Cafe Dharma, Audio Library Archive ID #64. Absolutely the best $10 you will spend this week!!)

My understanding of this siddhi is that it has or can have instantaeous "results," if it is the one I am dimly recalling.

Andy


Andy,
I only saw one translation and I'm not satisfied with the quality. Thanks for mentioning Adya's interview. I listen to his live radio every time and I'll take a look at the archive.
Realization must be amidst all the turmoils of life. ~Ramana Maharshi
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Dan_ » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Hello Anand:
This is Dan. Glad to see you here. I read your essay on LoA and tend to agree with most part. The LOA misleads people because of mathematical probabilities. When you attempt to get something there is a 50% chance of it occurring and 50% chance of failing (if there are only 2 possible outcomes). Therefore, if it does occur 50% of the time, then those followers of LOA will be more firm in their belief that LOA works. For the 50% who fail they would blame themselves as not having sufficient faith or positive outlook.
However, I do believe in positive thinking and its benefits. Before going on stage to speak in front of a large crowd I psych myself with positive thoughts of success and visualize that the crowd is impressed with me and I have had success all the time. So our minds could be programed to succeed. Also if you program your mind in this manner, over a long period, I believe (there is some neurological evidence of this) that I could reconnect the synapses in brain differently so that I am more positive in times of stress and this may lead to higher success rate in life.
Have a great day.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:35 pm

Dan_ wrote:The LOA misleads people because of mathematical probabilities. When you attempt to get something there is a 50% chance of it occurring and 50% chance of failing (if there are only 2 possible outcomes). Therefore, if it does occur 50% of the time, then those followers of LOA will be more firm in their belief that LOA works. For the 50% who fail they would blame themselves as not having sufficient faith or positive outlook.


I have to question your premise here. This may be true if you're flipping a coin, but if you are attempting to accomplish some type of goal it does not follow. Yes, you may have only two possible outcomes but that is not the sole criteria for the likelihood of success. Consider a baseball player at bat. He can either hit a home run or not, but find just one who averages 1 home run for every 2 at bats over any significant number of attempts. A 50% probability simply does not apply. So, the LOA does not relate to mathematical probabilities in the way you cite - 50% chance of a desired outcome happening. Success is much more dependent on what it is that's desired and one's willingness to make it happen. There is much more to LOA than I mention, but I'll leave it to those who actually practice it to detail it.

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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Dan_ » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:44 am

I said 50% probability when there are only 2 outcomes. If there are more outcomes say 4 then we will have different probabilities. They may not be success and failure as outcomes only. But success, failure, and 2 other outcomes that are partial successes. That means 25 % chance of success, 25% for failure and 2 other outcomes (partial successes) each having 25% chance of occurring. I took one example, but there could be many examples with total number of outcomes other than 2. It would be impossible to cover all scenario. One example is sufficient to make the point that success and failure could be probabalistic in nature.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Dan_ » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:25 am

Sorry I posted the above before I was done.
Probabilities are assigned to indicate that there would be varying degrees of successes. Success would depend on effort and circumstances and obstacles that each individual would encounter and may not follow the probability percents. I used a very simplistic model of 2 outcomes. You are correct life is more complex.

So if 100 people have a goal of becoming a millionaire, then we could look at it in a simplistic way that they would either succeed or fail. Or we could say that he would either succeed, fail or have partial success. There would always be a certain percentage successful, and certain percent not successful. These percents may not follow the probability percents. The point I was making was that those who succeed would be more firm in their belief in LoA, Those who do not succeed would probably think that they lacked sufficient positive outlook or they failed in the "art of allowing", which is the important 3rd step in LoA. Sorry that my response is so wordy.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby enigma » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:29 am

Probabilities are not determined by number of possible outcomes alone, but by the actual..... probability of those outcomes. :|
The probability of a coin toss being heads is 50%, not because it has to be one or the other, but because it is equally probable that it CAN be either. Given the possible outcome of being run over by a bus today, or not, the probability is far greater that you will not, not because there are lots of 'degrees of success' involved, but simply because being run over by a bus is highly improbable.

In the context of LOA, getting what you deeply desire and work hard to accomplish, is probably very probable. Hehe.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby enigma » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:34 am

BTW, I just remembered, I knew a lady a few years ago who needed a new computer and asked the forum we were on to help her manifest one. One day, she excitedly informed us that her manifestation was a success! When i asked her how that manifestation came about, she said she went to the computer store and bought it. Hehe.

I asked, is that like manifesting a loaf of bread at the grocery store with $2 from your pocket? :lol:
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:04 pm

enigma wrote:The probability of a coin toss being heads is 50%, not because it has to be one or the other, but because it is equally probable that it CAN be either.

Not necessarily so. The 'possibility' of it being heads is 50%. The probability changes with each toss of the coin. In 1000 tosses heads should be roughly 500 of the tosses. However, if you have 5,6,7 or more heads in a row, with all other conditions being equal, the probability of a tails increases. The law of averages requires that it will eventually equal out, so probability increases to the degree that equanimity is out of balance.

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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby enigma » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:02 am

I meant one coin toss. The probability of any one coin toss being heads is always 50%.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Sighclone » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:14 pm

A "two" (or "Aces" or "Snake-eyes") has a probability of occurring once in every 36 rolls on the craps table. If you look at 50,000 rolls at a given table, one in about 36 will be a "two." The same is true for every possible number from 2-12, with, of course varying probablities of appearance.

I have spent far too many hours watching dice bounce around at casinos. But I have observed that the likelihood of 50 rolls without a two is low. Is there any higher probability that the 51st roll will be a two, than the first? The formal answer is no, same probability, one in thirty-six. However, if you look at the 50,000 rolls, how many consecutive groupings of 51 rolls are there without a two? How about consecutive groupings of 52 rolls, etc? As you continue the "two-is-absent" streak, the number of such streaks, in actual observed sets of data decreases, over all tables.

Does this change the probability for the "next" roll? Not a whit.

But....my observations support the "law of large numbers" data over a long periods...after a while a "two" seems to be "due." I have been successful watching a table over time, and when a two or twelve has "gone missing" for a long period, I will begin steady bets on it -- yes it only pays 30-1 (true odds would be 36-1) so it is a horrible bet, but I've hit it profitably more than once.

My 2 cents...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:48 pm

Andy, would you bet $1000 that a 2 would come up in the next 36 rolls? Would you bet $1000 that a 2 would come up in the next 360 rolls? How about in the next 3600 rolls? Probability is linked to context.

Dan_'s original statement:
The LOA misleads people because of mathematical probabilities. When you attempt to get something there is a 50% chance of it occurring and 50% chance of failing (if there are only 2 possible outcomes).

This is inaccurate in that it doesn't allow for context nor influence. Success and failure are not always so simple as tossing a coin. In this case the quality of one's effort and the magnitude of one's goal affects the probability of success. Simply recognizing the possible number of outcomes as a percentage is insufficient to determine the probability of success or failure.

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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby arel » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:41 am

Well of course it is not 50/50. You got knowledge of how to achieve things that skews the probability.
If I knew how to toss the coin just right I'd get head all the time.
What I say is only my viewpoint.
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