Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philosophy

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby autumnsphere » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:44 am

Sighclone wrote:
conditioning our thoughts to unconsciously repeat patterns of positive perceptions will automatically bring more positive experience simply because there are many ways of perceiving any given event.


This concept of essentially "being good to yourself" is discussed at length in Buddha's Brain by Hanson and Mendius, with a firm foundation in modern neuroscience. This book is about changing your brain chemistry through habits and thinking -- feeding the "wolf of love" as opposed to the "wolf of hate." I highly recommend it to those who would like a scientific basis for much of what we talk about in this forum.

Andy


Sounds very interesting! Yes, that's what I've been saying - maybe the LoA is neuroscience after all.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Sighclone » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:10 pm

Ananda mentions this:
The two simply cannot be reconciled (nonduality and LoA), even if LoA were genuine, because nonduality
works at the very deepest levels of experience, and asks the very deepest questions one can
ever ask, (Who am I?).


And I agree with this -- they are separate vectors. The supposition that Source is tapped by correct application of the LoA is pretty hard to test.

OK. Webby -- you are on stage. You have eloquently defended the LoA. I've read most of your posts here and in other threads. Would you mind giving us personal examples from the past, or, even better, one goal or desire in the future to which you will be applying the LoA, and let us know how it works out?

Andy
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:02 pm

Sighclone wrote:OK. Webby -- you are on stage. You have eloquently defended the LoA. I've read most of your posts here and in other threads. Would you mind giving us personal examples from the past, or, even better, one goal or desire in the future to which you will be applying the LoA, and let us know how it works out?


What could I possibly report that would satisfy anyone? Some incident in the past one could just wave aside as a coincidence - or think I simply made it up. Something in the future could be seen the same way. I suspect, like all things spiritual, it's a matter of direct experience and what one is willing to attribute to a specified causation.

That being said, I'll give you an incident in my past that to me demonstrated the efficacy of LoA. It was 1983 and I was just back from a six month motorcycle trip around the western USA. It was more than a ride as I was deeply into spiritual pursuits and had a good deal of clarity for the time. At the end of the trip, literally the last day, I wrecked the bike and broke my wrist - along with a fair amount of asphalt rash. The wrist had to be pinned and the medical expenses cleaned out the rest of my savings.

After healing the wrist I went back looking for work and a new career. My history was as in law enforcement as a deputy sheriff, but I didn't want to continue that career path. So, needing money I went to work as a security officer at a hotel near Disney World. It didn't pay much, and I didn't like the work. Meanwhile I kept looking for something I liked that would pay more money. Being the spiritually aware person I was at the time, I started applying spiritual principles that were essentially the same thing as taught by Abraham-Hicks in LoA. It's not new as you know, having been around for a long long time. At the time I meditated regularly, so I began to incorporate my desires for better employment into my twice daily sessions.

Here's what I asked for/visualized: I wanted to make 30K per year in a field were I could continue my spiritual interests. Now, I didn't know what that might be exactly so I left the details up to Spirit. After a couple of weeks of focusing regularly, envisioning from as clear and centered a state as I could, I began to think I set my sights a bit too high financially. In my life at the time I had never made more than 17K in a year, so 30K was a fairly large step up. Remember this was 1983. Well, as I became more 'realistic', I reduced my chosen income level to 25K. Nothing like being reasonable huh? After a couple more weeks of this updated focus, I left it to the wind and began looking actively once again.

A friend, who was part of the threesome that took the motorcycle sojourn, came and talked me into signing on to a multilevel sales plan that we thought we could parlay into both a good income and actually do some good in the world. We were very idealistic back then. As luck would have it, it never panned out and ultimately fell flat. However, during my attempts to sign my friends to the program I ran across a fellow ex deputy sheriff who now worked at the Space Center on Florida's east coast. He told me security was hiring and that he would get me an application and put in a word for me if I wanted to come to work there. I agreed.

So I applied at the Cape (Canaveral), got hired and soon began making very good money for security work. The first full year I was there I made right at $29,800. The second year I made just over $25K. (It was actually several years later that I put together the amount I made with the numbers I had focused on. Frankly I was shocked.)

Further, as a new employee I had to start on the midnight shift, but it was the kind of job were I could sit in a guard shack on most nights and read all the spiritual books I wanted. On top of that, there were many who worked there interested in religious and spiritual issues, so long and interesting conversations were the norm as mobile and foot patrols stopped by to chat. In less than a year I was able to get off the mid shift and move to a 2 to 10pm shift, which made sleep deprivation no longer a problem, and after 4, when most workers went home, the opportunities to read an discuss/debate were even better. I worked there 13 years and after the 2nd year never made under 30K.

So, are you now convinced that LoA works as advertised? Does it prove anything? Didn't think so. But maybe you will consider allowing for the possibility. For me, it seems more important to understand why it must work rather that whether it does work. Getting stuff however, is such a side show as compared to getting clear. The practice of meditation, or the repetition of the Great Freedom teachings, is not so different than the LoA. It is the creation of a perspective that makes life more enjoyable. Adding stuff may be cool, but adding love and joy is what is going to make a real difference in one's experience.

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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:44 am

snowy asked about the LOA implications of a story in the nature topic .. viewtopic.php?p=75684#p75684
after replying I'd pop over here and see what's going on.

and saw this -
Ananda mentions this:
The two simply cannot be reconciled (nonduality and LoA), even if LoA were genuine, because nonduality
works at the very deepest levels of experience, and asks the very deepest questions one can
ever ask, (Who am I?).


If I may, let's break this down - non-duality works at the very deepest levels of experience, true, consciousness in action is a sweet, sweet thing. and so far nothing said makes it unreconcilable to 'ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find' etc as I see LOA
Albeit the materialisticness of some of it's press these days is/does not have to be the focus of what you are attracting - experiences, understanding - how better than through experiences?

The question Who am I? - I'm working on a production at the moment that discusses adolescence and it suggests within the stages of adolescence the 'stages' are characterised by a core question - 10-13 yrs Am I normal? 14-17 years 'Who am i?' and 17-21 'What is my place in the world?'

So, I would wonder, firstly what do you folks think about this as the step beyond Who am I? (i'm not my ego etc etc)...
Moving on to - What is my place in the world? (with this new understanding of oneness, etc etc)
And, of course how else can we truly know this except by experiencing it - which then leads back to the notion that non-duality works on the levels of experience.

For awhile there might be a space and time between asking a question (musing even) and the opportunity to experience it unfolding - which is why, be careful what you ask is (imho) incredibly powerful. In ET's stuff throwing off the coat of the ego, accepting oneness... well that gives us a whole heap of opportunities to experience things 'other' than what we thought we were.
Once you have this clear phew!! do the opportunities come thick and fast!! Maybe they were always there and we didn't always see them, or it took a lot for us to see them. But with the clarity of consciousness the opportunities are 'this-close'.

In that vein, and if everything is everything, how can LOA not be a part of the all?

I can pretty much pinpoint most major experiences in my life to questions or musing something I didn't understand, or didn't think I could handle, or were some of the more stubborn aspects of my sense of self that I didn't know how to reconcile with the 'all' 'consciousness' 'whatever'. The opportunity to experience is always 'perfect' to bring you to understanding, if a little uncomfortable as you do work through the experience.

For the more material aspects promoted with LOA there seems to be a way for the experience to hone that too - so you get a million dollars/whatever... the journey to and from it becomes the understanding that a million dollars is not going to bring you the happiness you seek at that deeper level. the important part of LOA is that you do become conscious of the 'opportunities' and the cause-effect along the way.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Sighclone » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:03 am

Thanks, Webby -- wonderful candid story. Something surely "clicked" for you, whether it was "visualizing" ( an early phrase for LoA, and surely part of the Amway spiel..."Think and grow rich"...etc.) or just blind dumb luck, we can't ever know. But, because of the "arrow of time" we can't replay those years and run them forward without WW and the LoA practices.

The power of thought is compelling. I don't know how many of you remember Art Bell -- he was a radio personality who had a late night show with lots of unconventional guests. He also ran an experiment with his listeners trying to get rain to fall in Atlanta about ten years ago. Wow did it rain. He tried it again, someplace else -- same result. Then he stopped because he got spooked.

So I'm agreeing that just because the specific causal mechanism is unknown doesn't mean there is not something "going on."

It is the interface with nonduality that concerns me. It is also related to "manifesting" which Nanci Danison (NDEer) talks about. I guess it has to do with what happens "after awakening," at best. On the other hand, what about the other 95% of us. Those who aren't continuously aligned with Source/Being. What will happen for us? If we are still hooked up with the ego-as-boss, then we get egoic desires in the driver's seat, and that has got to affect the outcome of LoA...(unless LoA only "works" if you are lined up with Source, or only "partly works" if you are still marching to the ego-drummer???) It's all very confusing.

And what about Eckhart telling us the universe will bring us what we need...doesn't sound like we need to do anything...

Andy
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:31 am

The old scripture "as ye sew, so shall ye reap" comes to mind as another early version of LoA.

Sighclone wrote:On the other hand, what about the other 95% of us. Those who aren't continuously aligned with Source/Being. What will happen for us? If we are still hooked up with the ego-as-boss, then we get egoic desires in the driver's seat, and that has got to affect the outcome of LoA...(unless LoA only "works" if you are lined up with Source, or only "partly works" if you are still marching to the ego-drummer???) It's all very confusing.

I think LoA is in effect at all times. The thing is the mind is so helter-skelter that it's difficult to see how life unfolds conditions as a result of our thinking. But anyone who has lived in depression knows the consistency of negative thoughts that fuels the experience. Breaking the cycle is difficult, but knowledge of the principles of LoA can be key in creating a new direction and experience. The methodology of LoA is more about focus, not only of thoughts, but of alignment. Presence awareness is paramount in creating a new perspective that sucks its own wind.

As to the question of measurable results, who can say the effectiveness of one's efforts if there is no way for anyone to know the internal dialog, nor the clarity of one's presence, when attempting to apply LoA principles. And of course if one is skeptical of the process it pretty much guarantees poor results. Genuine belief in the process and the desired result it would seem, is the unconscious mechanism which continues the energetic alignment when the mind moves on to other issues.

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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Rick » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:08 am

Sighclone wrote:
And what about Eckhart telling us the universe will bring us what we need...doesn't sound like we need to do anything...




Funny you say this. I wonder if being present in the Now is required in order to cooperate with the Universe? To be frank, I have learned about words, terms and phrases I've never heard of before coming here. The law of attraction, form, pointer, duality, non-duality, self-inquiry etc. All new to me. But the LoA got me pondering today. Tonight I asked a neighbor what the term law of attraction meant to him. He, being an old techie kinda guy said..."well, to me it means that opposites attract, like positive attracting negative". Hmmm. A light went on and I asked "you mean like the fulfillment of need?...Need being the negative and fulfillment being the positive response?" His eyes glazed over and he mumbled something about dark matter and black holes...and then he asked if I liked the smell of the brined chicken on the barbecue. Oh well, you can only go so far with some people.

Anyway, the idea of having a legitimate need and the Universe answering seems to me to be at least one aspect of the law of attraction. In this context I am emphasizing legitimate need as opposed to wants, desire and craving. I recall this story I posted here as my first post. I would venture to say that this story could be another example of how the law of attraction can be the Universe fulfilling a need as Andy suggests. A need I didn't even know I had at first but only in grateful hindsight. Others might call it a miracle.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:36 am

From Rick's linked post: Awareness is extremely Protective.

I love that ^^ My Granny had the 'sight' and during WW2 she saved many lives with her 'awareness' and yes, I do believe it is just connection to, and awareness of, source.

See how it kind of bends into all things though ... precognition may have been 'somewhere' - think about it, you're going on a long, lazy walk - why 'carry' a stick and add weight to your journey?

I wonder if being present in the Now is required in order to cooperate with the Universe?

^ there is also the 'willingness' notion. And the perfection of it... it's not 'coincidence' because it unfolds too perfectly once something is in motion, everything lining up and a greater 'awareness' unfolding.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Sighclone » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:19 am

Thanks, Webby, again, and Rick. Eckhart maintains through both of his books that our main "job" is to awaken. I agree. To the extent that the LoA offers a technique to do anything else, it appeals to egos. So maybe it is a "stand-alone independent causality engine," available to all who discover it. The guy in the movie "The Secret" actually ended up buying the house that was his picture on his "wishing wall." Why did I get the sense he was still asleep?!?!?!?

Which takes me back to Ananda's claim that they are totally unrelated. And yes, you can feed and deepen depression by grinding on negative thoughts. Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is another behavior-mod technique to reverse that...perhaps actvating the same "law" of attraction.

Back to the thread title, perhaps the LoA can be a "tool" for awakening? Oops, the LoA needs the mind and awakening is nonmental...transcends the mental. So I'm still wondering. I've never liked pure faith. If I have to "believe" in something before it will work, it kind of sounds like pixie dust...(read the wikipedia section on "Peter Pan" under "Abilities"). Which is why I asked Webby to try something in the present, his fine example from his past experience notwithstanding. And yes, if the LoA needs me to believe and believe and believe before it will work, is that also true of awakening? Eckhart and Jac O'Keeffe had absolutely no clue about Advaita until they had their stunning breakthroughs. Moreover, Adya, who was very familiar with "enlightenment," conceptually, spent fifteen years getting nowhere -- fully "believing" in it but not making any progress.

Seems like they come from different cloth.

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:01 am

Andy, I've never seen the movie 'The Secret', so I can't comment on it, and it is not directly from Abraham-Hicks, which appears to be the primary source of information on LoA in its current incarnation. It is true however, that many who come to the LoA workshops are mostly interested in the 'getting stuff' aspect of LoA. But what they get is the more significant focus of connection to Source, or being in the Vortex as this is what is required to manifest recognizable results. I highly recommend rereading Eric's posts on the subject as he has an exceptionally clear take on LoA as presented by Abraham, certainly more so than me.

As to your suggestion that I apply the principles to something in the present, I hardly think it would make much difference to the discussion. Just as my past experience is easily brushed aside, so too could any current efforts. Besides, I'm not all that interested in conjuring up some 'stuff' just to prove a point that wouldn't prove anything. That being said, I'm currently aligning some energy with an area of interest. But what is the time frame that would make it pass the authentic experience test? The last one was a couple of months before I got the job I mentioned, and it was two years before the numbers played out, and it was even a couple of years beyond that before I recognized the connection to my focused meditation. So it's not likely the question will so easily be resolved.

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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby xxx » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:58 pm

Rick wrote:
Sighclone wrote:
And what about Eckhart telling us the universe will bring us what we need...doesn't sound like we need to do anything...



Anyway, the idea of having a legitimate need and the Universe answering seems to me to be at least one aspect of the law of attraction. In this context I am emphasizing legitimate need as opposed to wants, desire and craving.



I don't know. No one would ever die of starvation if this were the case. It just doesn't pan out.

Also, I have heard a few of you mix Presence with LOA, but the idea of visualization seems to be completely at odds with this. Tell me how you reconcile these?

My thoughts are that contentment is key for both philosophies. Be satisfied, be happy, be now-- and there you have everything you could ever want or hope for. Discard the thought circles that create misery. Whether thoughts become reality or not, thoughts do have the capacity to make you miserable, and so both philosophies show you a method and a reason to stop doing it. Whether LOA or ET is real or not, if the end result is a decrease in misery, or an increase in happiness and contentment, does it really matter how you get there? That's why religions work too, afterall. Being alive should not be wasted- it should be enjoyed, both philosophies tell you that-- and so do all religions. Connect to the universe/source/god/being, whatever it's the same. From every direction, the same end.

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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby snowheight » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:09 pm

Webwanderer wrote:. It is true however, that many who come to the LoA workshops are mostly interested in the 'getting stuff' aspect of LoA.


Wanderer, erict: Is it a misconception to interpret the LoA as imposing some sort of symmetry on the concept of karma?

An explanation of why the Golden Rule or the power of positive thinking have the results that they do is probably not required by anyone ... but is a basic premise of the LoA one of cause and effect?

Is there some sort of hidden assumption in the premise that the LoA indicates that the desires of an individual (cause), shall, if applied correctly, result in the manifestation of those desires (effect)?
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Rick » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:23 pm

xxx wrote:I don't know. No one would ever die of starvation if this were the case. It just doesn't pan out.




Not to sound cruel but are you so sure that dying of starvation isn't part of the Big Picture? I mean, after all, horrible things have been happening throughout human history. From the human perspective we do not live in a perfect or just world, or is it? Check out this little essay by Alan Watts and what he says about bad things here.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby xxx » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:43 pm

Rick wrote:
xxx wrote:I don't know. No one would ever die of starvation if this were the case. It just doesn't pan out.




Not to sound cruel but are you so sure that dying of starvation isn't part of the Big Picture? I mean, after all, horrible things have been happening throughout human history. From the human perspective we do not live in a perfect or just world, or is it? Check out this little essay by Alan Watts and what he says about bad things here.



Yes, I am certain. I am certain that children in Southeast Asia who labor to make my shoes should not die of starvation while I feast. To me, this is all a manifestation of human kind losing something very basic, and that is our connection to each other. I think Tolle asked if the Zebra is angry to be eaten by the Lion or something like this. And in a natural sense, starvation is not bad. Starvation in the face of plenty is appalling. But since the advent of agriculture, we have had the capacity to deny people food, cutting off their natural right to forage and hunt. This is a very basic ... lets use the current vernacular-- lack of symmetry. Upon connection with being, you see that you are the same as that child-- one with him, his troubles are yours. Starvation because of a lack of food is natural, it's a population check. Starvation in our current system is a result of hoarding.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Rick » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:25 pm

xxx wrote:

I am certain that children in Southeast Asia who labor to make my shoes should not die of starvation while I feast.



Well, I can hardly disagree with that.

Though I have a heart that too has ached at the suffering of a fellow human being or other creature, I find some comfort in this quote by Watts that goes a long way in explaining the Bigger Picture IMHO:

"God also likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, he has no one but himself to play with. But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear...You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself."
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