Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philosophy

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby hanss » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:30 am

Thank you. I got stuck with this sentence, a very important question imo. It stirred up things in me (a good thing...)
smiileyjen101 wrote:If we accept 'what you resist, persists' how can we not accept what you seek you shall find, or what you reap you shall sow, or what you so imagine you can create? What has ever been created that has not been imagined first?
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby karmarider » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:04 pm

Sighclone wrote:Kaushik -

Again, welcome back.


Thanks, Andy. This is a great place.

I have always enjoyed your entries, your website and your continued presence here, your engagement with ruthless-truthdom notwithstanding.


hehe, well, I notice the same problems with those guys that many have been mentioned here. But through all the "ego gone god" stuff, there is a valid technique. I don't go to their forum--it's full of noise-but I do occasionally engage some of those guys directly.

Jed Mckenna says that he doesn't see why it should take any more than two years to wake up, after the initial insight. If that is true, then we're all missing something very basic in going through all the bru-ha-ha that we go through, only to remain asleep, despite our arm-waving about advancement and understanding.

That's my interest in rt guys. Not that they have figured it--they haven't. But if there is a simpler way, I want to be open to everything.

Thank you for your wise comments in this last post regarding beliefs.

That said, failing to believe in obvious truths (brick falling on foot, serious consequences to punching your neighbor, etc.) results in repeated pain and suffering. And yes, perhaps "repeated pain and suffering" is required for some people to endure to evolve. But usually there comes a point where a lesson is finally learned from experience, and a belief formed, to wit (theoretical examples): I believe that if I keep fighting with people I will have no friends. I believe that if I spend my last dollar on beer, that I will be hungry tomorrow. I believe that if I do not study for a test I will fail it.

From personal experience, I have formed the following beliefs, among others:

I think and work more clearly in the morning.

If I do the hard things on my "to do" list first, the rest get easier and the universe shows up to help me.

If I do not sit down a a keyboard and begin typing, I will not finish my novel.

Exercise improves my body and mind.

Too much ice cream makes me fat and sluggish.

Continuing to do the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insane. (That one comes from Einstein.)

Kaushik is a delightful and wonderful person.



I have the same beliefs. Except maybe the last.

Every word is a belief.

We use beliefs to learn and navigate life. Most of these beliefs are based on cause-and-effect. A has led to B so A leads to B becomes a belief, a law. In the PON, where ET is explaining why only the present is important, someone says that we need the past to learn, for example so we know not to touch a hot stove. ET says you only need common sense not to touch a hot stove.

So we use beliefs in the mind for the common stuff, and it works. But we also extend cause-and-effect to the larger patterns of life. For 45 years I held the belief "I am my body and thoughts and emotions." The belief was so obvious and unassailable that I never even bothered to look at it. ET opened my eyes to that.

I don't even know if it's possible to jettison all beliefs. But if the goal is to know the truth of existence, I don't see how it's helpful to look to any belief.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Sighclone » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:29 pm

I'm big on lila in maya...play in the field of dreams. I think simple beliefs help us, and are part of the fabric of the relative world. But they break down when applied to our true identity, as you experienced.

So how do we deal with this?:

Question to Ramana Maharshi: What is the end of the path of knowledge (jnana) or Vedanta?

His answer:
It is to know the truth that the "i" is not different from the Lord (Isvara) and to be free from the feeling of being the doer (kartrtva, ahamkara).


Having not experienced that, but just now reading it in a book, I have to decide if I believe it, if I don't believe it, or if I simply leave it there as a possibility.

I can drop a brick on my foot (although warned by my mother that it will hurt.) But I have to grind away on lots more learning (in various ways) to test this assertion by Ramana.

However, it is clear that he has that belief...or at least is comfortable, as an acknowledged and trusted guru in stating it as the truth of existence.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby karmarider » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:18 pm

Sighclone wrote:...
Question to Ramana Maharshi: What is the end of the path of knowledge (jnana) or Vedanta?

His answer:
It is to know the truth that the "i" is not different from the Lord (Isvara) and to be free from the feeling of being the doer (kartrtva, ahamkara).

However, it is clear that he has that belief...
Andy


Is it a belief? Or is it his recognition?

If it's a recognition, is a belief it required to enable the recognition? Is knowledge required? Can belief and knowledge be an obstacle to that recognition?

I now know that the "I" in my thoughts does not refer to anything real. I didn't need any belief or theories to recognize that. What it took was a direct looking.

I don't know the answers. I'm posing the question. What is the nature of direct inquiry? Does it require beliefs and knowledge?
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Ralph » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:42 pm

karmarider wrote:
I don't know the answers. I'm posing the question. What is the nature of direct inquiry? Does it require beliefs and knowledge?


.. isn't it funny how we all keep asking questions and seeking answers and continue to repeat this cycle endlessly with no end in sight ? We do this over and over and over again but for some strange reason , we refuse or ignore to look at the only question that needs asking, and that question is "who is this "I" that I take myself to be? . We skip this crucial part and start the search immediately after we utter the word "I".
This is also like when you speak to people about God and they talk about God endlessly without ever asking themselves " but who is this God that I believe in and speak about" ?

What if "this I" and "God " is the same . What then ? Where do you go from there ?
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby karmarider » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:22 pm

Ralph wrote:
karmarider wrote:
I don't know the answers. I'm posing the question. What is the nature of direct inquiry? Does it require beliefs and knowledge?


.. isn't it funny how we all keep asking questions and seeking answers and continue to repeat this cycle endlessly with no end in sight ? We do this over and over and over again but for some strange reason , we refuse or ignore to look at the only question that needs asking, and that question is "who is this "I" that I take myself to be? . We skip this crucial part and start the search immediately after we utter the word "I".


Yes, that's understood. I've seen that the I I took myself to be does not refer to anything. There is no more seeking around that, and no questions, and even if I had questions, nobody can really help, because each must do the work of looking directly.

That's not what we were talking about.

We were talking about the paradox that we need some beliefs to navigate conventional life, and yet when it comes to larger questions, and in particular the largest question, "Who am I", beliefs get in the way.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Ralph » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:20 am

karmarider wrote:
That's not what we were talking about.


:oops:

... but that's what I was talking about . :)
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby karmarider » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:24 am

That's cool. :D
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:46 am

Hanss wrote: Thank you. I got stuck with this sentence, a very important question imo. It stirred up things in me (a good thing...)

smiileyjen101 wrote:
If we accept 'what you resist, persists' how can we not accept what you seek you shall find, or what you reap you shall sow, or what you so imagine you can create? What has ever been created that has not been imagined first?


Glad you 'noticed' that Hanss.

In your 'noticing' that it had an impact the energy 'stirred' things in you. Even more YAY! for your consciousness of it.

Have you read webby's latest nde account? It may make the humungousness of the okayness of everything co-existing make a little more sense.

If the 'notion' of anything has been imagined, or noticed, it has already been created in Source and is already a part of the humungous dance of energies having an impact.

Whether you are aware of lets say an electricity grid, or not. It is there.
Whether you understand it or not, it is there.
Whether you employ it or not, it is there.
By it's being there it already 'affects' the whole whether or not it's noticed, understood or employed.
If you keep bumping into it not realising how it works, you 'may' get zapped, or not, you 'may' be unknowingly wearing insulating 'clothing'.
If you do employ it some things will change, some won't depending on the way in which you use it within the framework of its own possibilities.

The electricity grid or any conduit of 'power/energy' can be tapped into or to a degree muted depending on how it is channeled.

Before 'electricity' was understood, as an energy source we didn't understand the complex intracacies of the 'laws' that would allow us to harness it or that would create 'problems' if ignored.

Source is infinite energy expressing itself through conduits. Many of these conduits are 'pathways' that may be thought of as 'natural laws' because they are what keeps the whole shebang manifesting.

(forgot to say.. in my humble opinion through experience lol!! ....wanders off to the shelf in the dark at the back of the warehouse in trepidation of possibly being misunderstood :wink: )
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:37 am

Ralph wrote:What if "this I" and "God " is the same . What then ? Where do you go from there ?

I would go in search of greater understanding. I would wonder why it is that I am unaware, or at least unclear, of my God essence. Once it's realized that 'I' am not the things I thought I was from the egoic point of view, and that the next likely possibility is that I am God/Source/Essence/Etc expressed, I would consider why it is that I took this plunge into limited human unconsciousness. Why the seeming separation from the other co-expressions - my fellow humans? If I, as God/Source/Etc, thought it was a good plan, what might be My purpose? How do I reclaim My clarity. Is there more to this human expression that I have yet to understand? If I am God expressed, who's running the rest of the universe? Where do I find insight and clarity?

Maybe until one knows these answers through direct experience, the best one can do is explore the pointers available from whatever sources that inspire within us a sense of insight. No one can answer for another, but we can explore the pointers that bring us greater clarity than we currently possess. If our quest is genuine, and we are ever willing to give up what we now hold true in favor of greater possibilities born of inspiration, we can ask no more.

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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Sighclone » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:30 am

Lovely, Webby -- thanks.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby snowheight » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:39 am

Ralph wrote:What if "this I" and "God " is the same . What then ? Where do you go from there ?


Is this the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

This realization seems to be an unbalanced pointer of a sort by any definition of God that might be concocted, for while it can be seen that a perspective is complete and nothing is lacking from within, there are the senses to consider.

The inner divinity of a perspective is true of all perspectives but it is impossible to communicate this between them.

As we look up into the night sky, our senses report back the same sort of information that language conveys, and either source of information can induce the sense of awe and wonder and joy that confirms to us exactly who we are.

It is all in here, and it is all out there and none of it is anywhere.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby xxx » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:09 pm

hanss wrote:This my personal confused questioning and babble but I write it here anyway. Just ignore. What if awakening is not the important work. Where does that come from? Some book or teacher? What is the important work in my own experience? What if we are here to live as humans? Call it manifested forms, extension of the source or whatever. What if the existence of the real you, ego and all that is totally irrelevent. Maybe the reason we are humans is that we should live as humans, not try to be God (universe, I'm that etc.) That our main purpose is to live life, have experiences and create. That desires is natural for this human form and should be fulfilled, not seen as something bad or "in the way of awakening". Maybe we are here to really live, to get in the "flow" and enjoy it (not worry about it). Not sit and meditate and read spiritual books. Maybe we should skip all the self enguiry and questions like "who am I?", "who is doing the seeing?" and "is there awareness already?". Substitute it all with one simple question: "Am I living life or am I denying it?" Yes or No in every moment.


you kind of thread-jacked but I have to respond :)

When I was young, 20 or so, I was bent on discovering the truth and the purpose of things. Then one night, maybe I'd been watching too much Monte Python-- who knows, but I was lying there very quietly in bed, and one of my first moments of stillness came to me and it hit me like a ton of bricks. It's all right there in the Holy Grail --"Get on wif it!" To me this felt like a message from God it was so powerful. The purpose of life is to live; it's really quite that simple, I'm certain. You can choose to live well, and be content and happy, or you can choose to be miserable and ambitious. Either way, you get what you want. By being aware of our own mortality, we are essentially Schrodinger's cat-- dead and alive at the same time.

As for children and shoes-- I do not have answers for those who have no choices about their lives, those enslaved or virtually enslaved. To me, this is a great flaw in all things. I don't really get the God playing hide and seek thing. This would suggest an escape would be possible by consciousness, and I don't think this plays out. I mean even Jesus could not escape the cross. Many religions answer this by playing the 'devil' card, even ET-- but he calls it the egoic mind, aka monkey brain. Greed, selfishness, aggression.. my guess is that these were necessary for evolutionary development of life as we know it, and their byproducts will continue to exist until a tipping point is reached where consciousness is the norm, and the egoic mind is harnessed to manifest our survival. It's the great tragedy and the great hope simultaneously.
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby Sighclone » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:55 am

Ok, I accept the "gotcha" that "little me" is the one who suffers which the brick hits my foot. Which highlights the "both/and" paradox of Tim Freke. Both "little me" and Big Love coexist.

And that brought up this:
What if we are here to live as humans? Call it manifested forms, extension of the source or whatever. What if the existence of the real you, ego and all that is totally irrelevent. Maybe the reason we are humans is that we should live as humans, not try to be God (universe, I'm that etc.) That our main purpose is to live life, have experiences and create.


I think that is true. That we are here to live as humans, and not try to be God (universe, etc.)......

For some people. But what about the others? Those who are drawn to ET, Advaita, Zen, etc. Those who read and write here in hundreds of thousands of posts. Perhaps for us, more is needed, deeper questions answered. Ever handed ANE or PON to someone who read a few pages and tossed it aside, or read it all and said "mumbo-jumbo" (that would be the reviewer for the New York Times?)

Surely there are those who are not interested. To each his/her own tastes. We are a tiny minority...those who care deeply about "Who am I?" And that is fine, too.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Combining E. Tolle and Law of Attraction into one philos

Postby hanss » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:07 am

Thank you, now I got more questioning and thinking going on. Good for me. "To stay open" and not get stuck. "Those who are drawn to ET, Advaita, Zen, etc." have the spiritual disease as Adya says. And there is only one cure... But what I have seen (with limited experience perhaps) is that I and many others use this spiritual disease/calling from the Source/urge as a way to avoid life, instead of merging it with the daily life. Fear, resistance is still there... just covered up with "sincere spiritual seeking".

One of the things I like with LOA is the attitude and message "Life should be fun". I have changed that to "Life should and can be enjoyed". It's funny how this mind works. I have listened to many old Satsang recordings with Adya and very often he ends them with "Enjoy yourselves". I have never "heard" it if you understand what I mean. Now I do. Next week, I don't know :)
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)
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