smiileyjen said - karmarider quoted: If however you have an understanding of universal order (as in of the balance of natural laws) you will see the human elements of going against the natural laws and the consequences.
karmarider said: Which is exactly the thing we see when people have an understanding of universal order as an external and judgmental God, or the very warped idea of karma, or heaven and hell, or science. There are many very-well developed theories of natural laws in probably every religion.
I'm not sure how other 'people' 'understand universal order as an external and judgmental God, or the very warped idea of karma, or heaven and hell, or science' but if the reference was the word use of 'consequences'... think of it no more or less than (and yes, I know this is in the domain of science etc) an apple falling downwards from a tree ..unless there are other forces of energy operating at that moment eg wind maybe, or a hand in it's path, it's likely to fall straight down.
Ignoring gravity doesn't make it go away. You can either accept the belief or test it and the results will predictably replicate. But lets go to greater understanding of it - through experience - noticing how other energy forms and environments interact with it - that's greater understanding.. surely?
eg: when I'm climbing a mountain there are obvious consequences if I'm not holding on. But when I'm 18m under the sea scuba-diving weighted down it's a whole other ball game.
Resisting reality is pretty pointless, going deeper into it - even though it may 'feel' counter to egoic instinct relies on suspending judgment and BEING in the moment. Playing with an undercurrent drift 'holding on' would tire my body energy and be a vast waste of my precious finite other energy source -oxygen. Playing within the drift is a hoot, until the sand pushed up from it gourging the seabed sticks in my regulator and blocks the flow of oxygen into my lungs. Then if I don't 'adjust' ...well, it's the same result as not holding on when I'm mountain climbing - I get a free ride to the world of no-gravity, no oxygen required.
Now, to say that one set of laws is more "natural" than others--is that an aid to fuller understanding? Or an obstacle?
I'm not comparing them to each other, I 'stand under' them, noticing what is within each, and also noticing the variants that might be within them, some in common, some not - this (maybe) leads to fuller understanding of each in their own measure/environment.
If you 'expect' 'justice' in a man-made court isn't that delusional?
What I have noticed through experience is that human-made laws are not universal in theory, application or outcome. Call the other type whatever you fancy if you have a problem with the word 'natural'. Human-made laws depend upon you being 'caught', the laws change, and 'punishment' for 'breaking' these laws is external to free flowing energy,
The other type just 'is' free flowing energy, as far as I can gather they are universal, they don't change depending on who you are or where you are, there is no 'punishment' there are only the hmmm how do I not use natural... results.. of energy meeting energy at different measures.
with the Rwanda thing.. I did say .. "at the very least" you would need to consider... but yes in all likelihood it may go back to the creation of mankind.
I'm still pondering the notion of comfort that this awareness gives to the mind as a panacea of delusion - if this were true why would so many resist it? And why try to I dunno replicate it in human form and kill others so it doesn't get out?
KR said: If you follow natural laws, you'll have good life; if you don't, you're doomed.
Is that what you think awareness means?
lol snowy!! trust you and me to get the a^se end of a thing!!
zenn man is probably very smiiley!!
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen