Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:54 pm

For those who may yet be skeptical of the reality of the near death experience (NDE) as being representative of a non-physical reality, and are genuinely open to truth whatever it may be, there is considerable evidence in support of it as I have stated on many occasions. This thread is for those, and also for those who wish to add to there current knowledge on the subject of non-physical evidence.

The evidence available is so extensive that it is difficult to present in a forum such as this other than snippets that do not properly address all the wide ranging research that has been done. The following is a link to a number of studies and accounts, with additional links within to still greater detail of the studies, for anyone who wants to know what evidence exists. There will likely be more, up to date, studies linked later. This however is a good start.

http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html#a1

Note: This is a thread intended to discuss or comment on the evidence for non-physical reality. Posts that simply cite studies of the materialistic perspective, or are critical without having actually read the material, will be removed. Feel free to start a unique thread exclusive to materialistic science if you wish. This thread is for those who wish to educate themselves on the state non-physical exploration from a more scientific perspective.

If you have knowledge of any good studies supporting non-physical realities, feel free to post a reference and a link.

WW
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby rideforever » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:52 pm

Even if I were to accept the evidence - what difference does it make to me ? I still have a million problems in my life.

Is your intention that after I accept the evidence - that's it, I am transformed ?

Or are you thinking that after accepting it, it would encourage me to meditate or do something further ?
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:29 am

rideforever wrote:what difference does it make to me ?

That's for you to decide. That's where freedom to choose comes in.

For me it brings more of a top-down perspective, a perspective not available through an exclusively physical life view. The view from on top of the hill reveals much of the terrain we may walk on the valley floor. We still may have to walk it but might choose a wiser course than one through obviously treacherous territory.

All those problems you cite showed up through a process - or so my perspective holds. Understanding the context of the problems that confront us from a broader view can improve our relationship with them and with life in general.

Let me offer an example from Natalie Sudman. She was nearly killed in a roadside bomb attack in Iraq. At the time of the explosion she had a near death experience. As a result of the expanded consciousness (relative to what she knew from her physical perspective) she saw her physical life experience (and all physical life experiencers) in a much greater, more universal, context,. When she awoke, badly injured in the Humvee she had been riding in, she couldn't see out of her right eye. Her thoughts, still much in the expanded perspective was "I might be blind in my right eye... that could be fun!!"

Her life view had undergone a shift in context to a top-down perspective. Life was now about experience - unique experience - that would increase the body of life experience to her greater consciousness. Instead of the fear of being blind, she was more interested in how the experience might unfold and what she could get out of it. There was no judgment or complaining, just consideration of the possibilities.

Maybe this does not interest some. That's okay. For me it helped garner a context for the unexpected in my life to be seen as opportunity rather than something to fear. Life is a much more fun experience when filled with opportunities rather than problems. The difference is a matter of choice. How do we perceive the events and conditions of our life? NDE's make clear the reality that all experience can be good. We just have to choose to see it as such.

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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:08 am

Webby said': Life is a much more fun experience when filled with opportunities rather than problems.

The difference is a matter of choice.

How do we perceive the events and conditions of our life?

NDE's make clear the reality that all experience can be good.

We just have to choose to see it as such.


Thank you for the thread, links and ^ Webby - :)

Any 'addition' to the perceived reality of our living is ... just new information.
What we do with that information is absolutely up to us.

Vicki Omipeg's story - blind from birth and trying to comprehend 'seeing' - words - has touched me

"This was," she said, "the only time I could ever relate to seeing and to what light was, because I experienced it."

Everybody there was made of light. And I was made of light. What the light conveyed was love. There was love everywhere. It was like love came from the grass, love came from the birds, love came from the trees.

I had a hard time relating to it (i.e., seeing). I had a real difficult time relating to it because I've never experienced it. And it was something very foreign to me ... Let's see, how can I put it into words? It was like hearing words and not being able to understand them, but knowing that they were words. And before you'd never heard anything. But it was something new, something you'd not been able to previously attach any meaning to.



She even, in remembering the sense of it used the words 'Let's see... how can I put it into words? :D

She's not alone in that notion :shock:


In a way Webby, that's what you're saying above - when 'new' information / experiences arise they have no meaning yet, until we give it meaning. In the light ... love is the meaning and the knowing simultaneously... (words!!)

... It's like the place was the knowing.


I didn't 'know' Carl Jung had an NDE - although... I get more this notion of ... oh, they KNOW... from many of our greatest thinkers.

And then it gets squashed!!!

This from Mellen-Thomas...
"It turns out that I was exactly right. I helped decode a genetic disease and the information was very accurate. Everybody thanked me and I went away. Then about three months later, I started getting letters and calls saying, 'My God, you hit it right on the head! This is astounding. There is no way you could have had this information in advance.' I did a fair number of projects like that and a fair number of think tanks, all of which you have to sign nondisclosures and promise to never talk about. I worked in a lot of think tanks with some very impressive world class scientists over the next ten years until I retired from all that in 1995."


Why do we have to sign non-disclosures? Why keep this stuff 'secret' until it's 'proven' by someone else?

Like Vicki's story, ...let's see, how can I put it into words?....(and not upset everybody!!!)
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:02 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:In a way Webby, that's what you're saying above - when 'new' information / experiences arise they have no meaning yet, until we give it meaning. In the light ... love is the meaning and the knowing simultaneously... (words!!)

I hadn't thought of it quite like that but yes, that seems to be the case. At least experience of events have no meaning from the physical human context until we apply some. Our conditioning is so prevalent that meaning is nearly automatic and shows up through our emotional response. But if we step back and look at our experiences and how we relate to them we can see that our judgment, positive, negative or neutral, is often already active from a conditioned or previously adopted thought structure. Good call.

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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby SandyJoy » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:31 pm

Hey Webby,

Your words sound exactly right to me---It is wonderful when we realize 'we' are not the body and not limited to this world of matter and form---It is about freedom from the limited concepts of or about Identity and It is about understanding who we are---If we know who we are, then it changes everything about how we live and be here in this world of time--we know where the Value is and we can let go the fear---and fear is the opposite of Love---

Anyway, your post reminded me of this brilliant little piece by William Samuel:

http://www.williamsamuel.com/07-25-07-G ... yramid.htm

And as an added support to you---I am among those who have seen the 'other side' which we call 'death' and It is not death--nothing dies, no one dies, we are not the body--- Once you see it, it is so very clear and obvious---all things are made new right here in this world of time---we see this world from the top-down and we stand atop Da Shan while yet still here with great Love and a deeper understanding the Good and Marvelous and Perfect reasons for this world appearing the way it is.
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:13 pm

Thanks for the link Sandy. I have always loved Williams' great insight and his way with words. And thanks for your diligence in keeping his excellent works available. Somehow I sense Williams' love holding you close.

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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:06 pm

Sandy said: -I am among those who have seen the 'other side' which we call 'death' and It is not death--nothing dies, no one dies, we are not the body---


The 'evidence' and enthusiasm of your joy is omnipotently obvious.

Did you sign a non-disclosure statement? :wink: would you care to share a little or point me to it if you already have?
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby rideforever » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:32 pm

Webwanderer wrote:For me it brings more of a top-down perspective ....Life is a much more fun experience when filled with opportunities rather than problems.

Perhaps it is time to take the jump into the unknown, that leap of faith you talk about in the other thread.

Perspective, fun, opportunities, life ... these are words of the identified mind. These are words that come from an understanding that is only conceptual.

The need to find more evidence etc... more theories, more testimony ... likewise.

See that you are waiting, waiting, waiting.

Stop waiting.

Jump
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:21 am

rideforever wrote:Perhaps it is time to take the jump into the unknown, that leap of faith you talk about in the other thread.

What is this leap of faith you perceive I suggest? Or is it one you are suggesting I take that I merely talked about? Forgive my confusion. I certainly don't wish leap blindly. God only knows where I mind end up. :wink:

Perspective, fun, opportunities, life ... these are words of the identified mind. These are words that come from an understanding that is only conceptual.

Words are pointers, the only way we have to interact in this forum, and identification is not that big an issue when one is aware of such. I would suggest that you look into my eyes, but well... :shock:

Concepts are to a large degree the beliefs we live through. They don't have to be permanent, only a working relationship until a clearer understanding is gleaned. We all have concepts helping to guide our way. So long as our understanding is limited, and it likely will be while in this human experience, concepts provide a familiar structure through which to explore possibilities in experience. When they no longer serve, replace them.

The need to find more evidence etc... more theories, more testimony ... likewise.

Well maybe. I'm not sure I concur with the 'need' part. I'm certainly interested and curious as to how much clarity I can gain through a more inclusive perspective on life. No doubt I like where it has taken me to this point.

And as you probably know, I was recently accused of not providing any evidence of a non-physical reality that I routinely pointed to. So as it is way too cumbersome to constantly restate the same thing over and over in sufficient quantity and quality to make my case to the materialists that say I'm delusional, it seemed practical to create this thread as a stockpile of the evidence some say does not exist.
See that you are waiting, waiting, waiting.

Stop waiting.

Jump

Remind me again, what exactly am I waiting for? And to where am I jumping?

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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby rideforever » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:30 am

You talk a lot.

I certainly don't wish to leap blindly

As long as you know where you are going, you aren't going anywhere.
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby SandyJoy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:28 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:Did you sign a non-disclosure statement? would you care to share a little or point me to it if you already have?




Sweet Jen,

Maybe someday---Maybe, if Something tells me it is time and then the angels are willing to help me do it --then maybe.

Now that you mention it, I think I did sign a non-disclosure statement---not with the scientists-- but between me and my guardian angels.

Meanwhile, I will keep finding ways to sing my little song as best I can ----that's about all I can do.
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby SandyJoy » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:31 am

Webwanderer wrote:Thanks for the link Sandy. I have always loved Williams' great insight and his way with words. And thanks for your diligence in keeping his excellent works available. Somehow I sense Williams' love holding you close.

WW


Thank you too Webby-- <3 xoxo
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:12 am

Webby, can you define the parameters or definition of 'non physical realities' that you would like to share and discuss in this thread.

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross' book Life after death is as interesting in the stories she tells, and the stories the reviewers here tell.

http://www.amazon.com/On-Life-after-Dea ... Descending


I've also added this link to the split off topic - it's ET discussing the eternal essence - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FCNGxto-8c


I had to smile... maybe there is a 'universal non-disclosure statement' Sandy... the absolute 'proofs' are so personal they probably do have to be experienced. It reminds me of the absolute belief I used to have that I would NEVER kiss a boy and behave all silly and think they were the bees knees etc etc and that my older brother and sister had just gone totally mad in their minds and behaviors the way they were 'carrying on' around and after puberty.

And then it 'hits us' - like a wallop from a lump of cold, wet meat around the head, and we 'come to our (new) senses' - even though I thought that was what my older brother and sister 'needed' to bring them to theirs :lol:
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:06 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:Webby, can you define the parameters or definition of 'non physical realities' that you would like to share and discuss in this thread.

Primarily it's about evidence, both scientific and anecdotal, of the viability, continuance and existence of conscious being irrespective of the human body. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, or restricting access from those who may wish to point out contributors delusion as some might imagine in their righteous outrage. It's about a focused discussion of the wide ranging evidence, accounts, and studies pertaining uniquely to the subject of evidence; and not just denial that such evidence exists as well as condescension toward those who have actual knowledge of such evidentiary material or personal experience with non-physical consciousness. This could be their own NDE, OBE, ADC, or first hand knowledge of those that have.

I also welcome genuine interest from those who may be curious but unsure of what evidence is available. I envision an educational thread that can be referenced when such issues arise in other threads. Here one can place their personal story, or scientific research, or corresponding study of which they are familiar without having to wade through attacks from those who are more interested in changing the subject to favor their own ideology that excludes the subject of this thread.

No doubt some will be offended by the restrictions. Hopefully they will get over it and respect the integrity of this thread, and maybe, eventually, see the value in it. They are, of course, free to make their complaints known in other threads, so long as it's done within the forum rules, and anyone interested can discuss them there.

Hopefully this helps clarify the intent of this particular topic. Thanks for your interest and contributions.

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