Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby rideforever » Sat May 25, 2013 9:43 pm

Again, you say you are not content with this ... but you reveal nothing. If there is something you are not content with, what is it and why ?

But ... to reveal something is to become vulnerable to a new understanding. The ego must avoid this at all costs.


You know that thread on your website about Meditation not being necessary ... can't remember the title exactly. And then mid-way through the comments, you say ... oh well I was hasty and take it back. Well both entries there that you wrote were concerned with other people's opinions, do you see that ?

I think you mention J K in that entry.

His kind of total freedom is to just cut through the whole thing. Of course one would want to do that. But how ... well we can look at what we say, because it reveals a lot. And actually in a single statement is the whole operation of the veil.

One statement uttered and observed is truly enough to cut through. So much opportunity !

The reliance on other people's views, the worrying about them, expectation, playing to them ... about what you think your image is in their minds ... this is the ego in its epitome. Cut through that, I don't think there's anything left. Opportunity here.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby treasuretheday » Sun May 26, 2013 3:15 am

rideforever wrote:I am the pause between two breaths (isn't that Rilke, just bought one of his books).
I adore Rilke. Enjoy your new book.

I am the rest between two notes,
which are somehow always in discord


I Am the Rest between Two Notes

My life is not this steeply sloping hour,
in which you see me hurrying.
Much stands behind me: I stand before it like a tree:
But I am only one of many mouths
and at that, the one that will be still the soonest.
I am the rest between two notes,
which are somehow always in discord
because death’s note wants to climb over –
but in the dark interval, reconciled,
They stay here trembling.

And the song goes on, beautiful.
Life itself is the proper binge.
-Julia Child
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Sun May 26, 2013 6:32 am

rideforever wrote:You know that thread on your website about Meditation not being necessary ... can't remember the title exactly. And then mid-way through the comments, you say ... oh well I was hasty and take it back. Well both entries there that you wrote were concerned with other people's opinions, do you see that ?

I think you mention J K in that entry.

I'm sure you make a good case for whatever your point is. You should know however, that I do not have a web site, and I have never quoted J K - I would guess that J K is J Krishnamurti and I have never been attracted to his work. It seems you have attacked me by attributing to me someone else's statements.

Let's agree to disagree and move on to more useful venues for our attention.

WW
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby rideforever » Sun May 26, 2013 6:41 am

If that is a mistaken identity, I am sorry about that.

I wasn't attacking you, but I see that this conversation is part of my past.
I have reassured myself that correctly understanding certain things is enough.
But it is not.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby rideforever » Sun May 26, 2013 7:49 am

I clear my Heart to The North, The South, The East and The West. To the Upper and the Lower.
I invite the Highest Light to enter into me for my Good, and the Good of All That Is.

This is the opening from Rilke's book :

I live my life in widening rings
which spread over earth and sky.
I may not ever complete the last one,
but that is what I will try.

I circle around God, the primordial tower,
and I circle ten thousand years long;
and I still don't know if I'm a falcon, a storm,
or an unfinished song.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby jimmyrich » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:29 pm

By "evidence" I assume you mean concrete proof but I have none - just my own personal experiences and observations of certain friends and relatives that I communicated with after their physical death. My stories could take up a lot of pages here so all I can offer is that these "dead" individuals were and still are very much alive in the other, non-physical dimension beyond death. I am not a psychic like my wife is and have no idea where those "dead" individuals go from now on but am quite satisfied that
1. there is no death and
2. life is TERRIFIC over there!
jim 8)
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:03 am

jimmyrich wrote:By "evidence" I assume you mean concrete proof


I mean no such thing. Evidence can take many forms. Proof is often just a belief. There has been much in the past that was considered 'proof' that is no longer considered as such. No doubt there is still much 'proof' in the present that will one day be found wanting. What is considered proof by one is often folly to another. So it goes.

The point of this thread it to report and explore any information that points to conscious life beyond this physical form. Anecdotal reports are one type of evidence if genuinely experienced. If you have had contact with friends and relatives that have passed on, or a conscious experience beyond your physical body, feel free to share it/them. Here in this thread is an opportunity to explore greater perspectives.

WW
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Fore » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:20 am

Webwanderer wrote:The point of this thread is to report and explore any information that points to conscious life beyond this physical form. Anecdotal reports are one type of evidence if genuinely experienced. If you have had contact with friends and relatives that have passed on, or a conscious experience beyond your physical body, feel free to share it/them. Here in this thread is an opportunity to explore greater perspectives.

WW


Participating in some Buddhist and meditation based forums, it is generally discouraged to discuss personal experiences of this nature.

The logic is simply there is no way to back up a claim made by someone, and those that make claims as such end up setting themselves up for deep scrutiny by the disbelievers and spend an enormous amount of time defending their positions. If I were to say that I had full access to all the below dimensions and could communicate with the angels in the heavenly realms, how would that be helpful for anyone to come out of their suffering.

My understanding is yes there are other dimensions beyond form:

1.Dimension of Infinite Space - In this dimension the following qualities are "ferreted out":[2] "the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention".[2]
2.Dimension of Infinite Consciousness - In this dimension the following qualities are "ferreted out":[2] "the perception of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, unification of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention".[2]
3.Dimension of Nothingness - In this dimension the following qualities are "ferreted out":[2] "the perception of the dimension of nothingness, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention"
4.Dimension of Neither Perception nor Non-Perception No qualities to be "ferreted out" are being mentioned for this dimension.

These 4 dimensions involve mind.

Beyond mind and matter is "cessation of feelings and perceptions" only highly evolved beings have full access to this dimension. I believe Eckhart's books and speech is birthed from this dimension.


I am taught:

"In the practice of insight meditation one has to explore the reality within oneself—the material structure and the mental structure, the combination of which one keeps calling "I, me, mine." One generates a tremendous amount of attachment to this material and mental structure, and as a result becomes miserable. To practise we must observe the truth of mind and matter. Their basic characteristics should be directly experienced by the meditator. This results in wisdom."

This experiential wisdom allows us to break free from the grip of the ego. We are not advised to practice outside of mind/body as no liberative wisdom can be gained from this.

It is said that special powers can be gained in these states of mind: telepathy, levitation, mind-reading etc.... and I am sure that people with these special gifts have access to these dimensions.

Sorry if this was covered in one of the past posts, or is not helpful, I only briefly scanned through this thread.

I would just like to add that I have only briefly touched these dimensions, but do possess the ability to read your minds. :shock:

Just kidding, sorta :wink:
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:44 am

Fore said: If I were to say that I had full access to all the below dimensions and could communicate with the angels in the heavenly realms, how would that be helpful for anyone to come out of their suffering.

It may not be helpful if you state it, but it could be helpful if you employ it.

Because the truth is illuminating.

Fore said: I would just like to add that I have only briefly touched these dimensions, but do possess the ability to read your minds. :shock:

Just kidding, sorta :wink:

Humility or fear?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:22 am

Fore wrote:I am taught:

I have not found your post to be particularly interesting. It's certainly possible that someone else may. The problem is that it reads like "I am taught", or a series of quotes from a structured teaching. I'm not suggesting that structured teachings are not useful, but second hand they tend to lose some context to a greater message.

For what it's worth, I am far more interested in your own understanding that comes from both teaching and personal experience. For this you must have a 'sense' of what the teachings point to. If you have to remember what was taught, then you really don't have a true vision of it. This is not a criticism as we all have to get up to speed with whatever teaching we explore and the evidence there is to support it.

The logic is simply there is no way to back up a claim made by someone, and those that make claims as such end up setting themselves up for deep scrutiny by the disbelievers and spend an enormous amount of time defending their positions.

For any individual claim this may be true. In mass numbers, with supporting experience, it becomes much clearer that something in a greater reality exists beyond this physical expression. Indeed there are now many who are so clear on their own direct experience as to be unconcerned as to the opinions of those with no experience in the matter.

If I were to say that I had full access to all the below dimensions and could communicate with the angels in the heavenly realms, how would that be helpful for anyone to come out of their suffering.

Saying it of course does not make it so. But for those who genuinely report their experience, or of a clear understanding of the full spectrum of evidence of life beyond this world, it can relieve a great deal of suffering.

Fear of death and oblivion, or of hell and damnation can be the cause of great suffering - whether it be concerns for their own death, or for that of a loved one. Quality information about the survival of being and the return to a natural loving realm from which this one flows can point the way to a perspective that relieves the fear of a lifetime. No fairy tails are necessary. Only a fair sense of our relationship to eternity.

WW
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Fore » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:59 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:It may not be helpful if you state it, but it could be helpful if you employ it.


Agreed.


smiileyjen101 wrote:Humility or fear?


Humour :)
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Fore » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:07 pm

Webwanderer wrote:I have not found your post to be particularly interesting. It's certainly possible that someone else may. The problem is that it reads like "I am taught", or a series of quotes from a structured teaching. I'm not suggesting that structured teachings are not useful, but second hand they tend to lose some context to a greater message.


Yes, the "I am taught" was my attempt to quote one of my teachers edited words without trying to come across as those words being my own or shoving this particular tradition down every ones throat. I posted this purely for informational value, if some find it worth exploring or it resonates in some way, then it may have benefit and be worth exploring.
Webwanderer wrote:For what it's worth, I am far more interested in your own understanding that comes from both teaching and personal experience.


My understanding is an understanding of a depth to which I have walked the path(liberated my sufferings), as is yours. The food that I have eaten will not satisfy your hunger, no matter how well I am able to describe it. We all must seek out our own food and eat it. At best I can only point to the food sources I have found on this journey.

Webwanderer wrote: In mass numbers, with supporting experience, it becomes much clearer that something in a greater reality exists beyond this physical expression. Indeed there are now many who are so clear on their own direct experience as to be unconcerned as to the opinions of those with no experience in the matter.


Exactly, once you have tasted the food for yourself it becomes a truth for you, then you can recognise and be with the truth in this reality.


Webwanderer wrote:But for those who genuinely report their experience, or of a clear understanding of the full spectrum of evidence of life beyond this world, it can relieve a great deal of suffering.


It may very well give temporary relief of some suffering at the surface level, but this will not cut the roots of our defilements and liberate one from suffering. You can mow down the weeds but unless you remove the roots they will return.

Webwanderer wrote:Fear of death and oblivion, or of hell and damnation can be the cause of great suffering - whether it be concerns for their own death, or for that of a loved one. Quality information about the survival of being and the return to a natural loving realm from which this one flows can point the way to a perspective that relieves the fear of a lifetime. No fairy tails are necessary. Only a fair sense of our relationship to eternity.


Desire is the cause of suffering, the desire for things to be different from the way they are at this moment. Moment to moment we die and moment to moment we are reborn, our past lives will shape this life.

What you are talking about is a Band-Aid, intellectual knowledge cannot liberate one from suffering.
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:55 pm

Here's my take: All teachings are intellectual knowledge, including what you and I are offering. That is just the nature of having to use mind and words for communication. Pointing, and example, are the best we can offer in helping one another find more clarity in life. It is of course, up to the individual what he or she does with that pointing and with the example lived. It can be an inspiration to personal exploration, or it can be rejected without consideration. We each choose our own way.

When it comes to desire, it is a natural part of life in this world. You came here as a result of a desire of some type - both into this forum and into the world as a whole. There is no need to make an enemy of desire, but merely to understand its purpose and function. While desire may seem to be the cause of suffering, it is only a catalyst. Desire could just as well lead to clarity and joy. It depends on the focus of that desire and the perspective one has on its unfolding (or lack there of). You desire clarity and awakening do you not? Do you not follow the teachings you point to because you desire their fruits?

It is the judgment we lay upon the un-fulfillment of those desires that brings suffering. That judgment creates beliefs in victimhood, envy, jealousy and the whole host of human ills that cause suffering.

Suffering is born of judgment more so than desire. And judgement is the result of living in and through a conditioned mind rather than thought-free presence of being. But life is a path of conscious expansion and in the greater reality of being, every experience and life has value. Even our judgment, pain, and suffering, add to the evolution of consciousness.

WW
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby treasuretheday » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:17 pm

Beautifully said, WW!

Fore wrote:Desire is the cause of suffering
Our relationship to desire can feel troubling. We can dismiss desire as something that diminishes us, makes us too vulnerable. But we can't receive what we are not open to wanting, so we do ourselves a disservice to repress this energy. The energy is there: consciously deal with it or not. Being in touch with our longing gets us in touch with our self, with others, with the Divine.

This connection is not to be confused with obsessing over what some external thing or person can bestow upon you. It's about taking a look at what is happening inside of you; to allow yourself to enter into undiscovered territory that offers a taste of the depth of your being.

Our desire goes well beyond a finite object, experience or person. Our desire arises from the infinite within us. So, it's never just this person I love, this thing I want, or this experience I crave. The beloved person, the delightful experience, open my heart to the magic and mystery of Life, and to the love within myself.
Life itself is the proper binge.
-Julia Child
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Re: Evidence Of Non-Physical Realities

Postby runstrails » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:02 pm

I can see validity in both perspectives (Fore's and WW/TTDs).
To me its simply a matter of perspective.
From the perspective of your true self: There is obviously nothing to desire since you are it--the whole enchalada. This lack of desire is a form of the peace beyond understanding.
From the perspective of small self: Desire is natural to human beings and makes their world go around. It's how this world keeps moving forward for better or for worse. It can be fulfilling and a major cause of suffering.
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