Why be born in the first place?

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Why be born in the first place?

Postby Clouded » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:18 am

If experiencing death brings so much peace, joy and clarity then why do we get to experience life when it is not as perfect? Why do we get to experience the physical and emotional pains of being human? Are we with God before we are physically born? If so, why are we taken away from God just to return to God? Is this human experience useful in the afterlife?
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby karmarider » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:00 am

There once was a soul who knew itself to be the light. This was a new soul, and so, anxious for experience. “I am the light,” it said. “I am the light.” Yet all the knowing of it and all the saying of it could not substitute for the experience of it. And in the realm from which this soul emerged, there was nothing but the light. Every soul was grand, every soul was magnificent, and every soul shone with the brilliance of My awesome light. And so the little soul in question was as a candle in the sun. In the midst of the grandest light —of which it was a part—it could not see itself, nor experience itself as Who and What it Really Is.

Now it came to pass that this soul yearned and yearned to know itself. And so great was its yearning that I one day said, “Do you know, Little One, what you must do to satisfy this yearning of yours?”

“Oh, what, God? What? I’ll do anything!” The little soul said.

“You must separate yourself from the rest, of us,” I answered, “and then you must call upon yourself the darkness.’

“What is the darkness, o Holy One?” the little soul asked.

“That which you are not,” I replied, and the soul understood.

And so this the soul did, removing itself from the All, yea, going even unto another realm. And in this realm the soul had the power to call into its experience all sorts of darkness. And this it did.

Yet in the midst of all the darkness did it cry out, “Father, Father, why hast Thou forsaken me?” Even as have you in your blackest times. Yet I have never forsaken you, but stand by you always, ready to remind you of Who You Really Are; ready, always ready, to call you home.

Therefore, be a light unto the darkness, and curse it not.

And forget not Who You Are in the moment of your encirclement by that which you are not. But do you praise to the creation, even as you seek to change it.

And know that what you do in the time of your greatest trial can be your greatest triumph. For the experience you create is a statement of Who You Are—and Who You Want to Be.


Conversation with God
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:22 pm

Then there's the matter of expansion, growth, evolution, and/or eternal newness. 75 or so years in eternity that will far out last the universe is but a blink. So from a soul perspective, a human life experience is but a short adventure to explore interesting possibilities that deepen and broaden the experience of being. The pain and suffering of life is mostly about resistance to certain experiences. From a clear conscious perspective, this is both educational and broadening.

The option we have is to regain our naturally clear perspective after we leave the physical body at the transition we call death, or to reconnect with that true clarity, our true nature, while yet still here. While either one is perfectly fine from the soul perspective, doing so while still in human form alleviates a lot of unnecessary suffering.

It's really about perspective. There is the perspective that we most all have of ego or thought identity, and there is the perspective of clear conscious being known in thought-free silence. While our sense of thought identity shifts throughout our lives, our underlying conscious being - our true nature - continues unaffected as loving observer as thoughts, emotions and experience flow through.

The further benefit of our natural state of conscious being is that it is the fertile ground of insight and inspiration into all our human conditions. When enjoying a rich connection with that clear state, life becomes more of a joyful dance than that of a trudging quagmire.

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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Fore » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:01 pm

Clouded wrote:If experiencing death brings so much peace, joy and clarity then why do we get to experience life when it is not as perfect? Why do we get to experience the physical and emotional pains of being human? Are we with God before we are physically born? If so, why are we taken away from God just to return to God? Is this human experience useful in the afterlife?


God cannot see/experience "itself", so God created you(a mirror) in which God can see "itself".

God is in you, look into the mirror. This is the purpose of your life, to evolve.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Onceler » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:49 pm

Clouded wrote:If experiencing death brings so much peace, joy and clarity then why do we get to experience life when it is not as perfect? Why do we get to experience the physical and emotional pains of being human? Are we with God before we are physically born? If so, why are we taken away from God just to return to God? Is this human experience useful in the afterlife?


I don't know that death brings joy and clarity. I do know that life can be miserable or satisfying. Or, perhaps, both. For a long, long time I was miserable. Now I'm satisfied. Go figure?

As I just noted in another thread, I have founded that this sort of speculation is painful for me. And I end up chasing my cosmic tail. What's real is what is here in front of me. Real and satisfying. Going headlong into life and leaving the meta stuff behind has simplified and clarified reality.

It also, ironically, makes it more mysterious.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby runstrails » Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:03 am

hey Clouded--love your picture.

clouded wrote:
Why be born in the first place?


What if I was to say you were never born in the first place :D.

But seriously, if you're asking why does Maya exist--no one really knows---so any explanation is as good as another. Or conversely, no explanation will be satisfactory. What a mystery, huh? Can you *be* it--instead of trying to fathom it? :D.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Clouded » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:27 am

I know that no human being can give me a definitive answer to my questions, I was just curious to know what your interpretations/beliefs are so I can get some inspiration for mine. :) I have a huge interest in all things that cannot be tested so easily with our technology and I sometimes wonder what it is like to be God and know everything that there is to know about the Universe and all of it's dimensions. I started reading Conversations with God (I'm at p.76) and there's one thing that I find hard to believe and that is my being equal to God and that I was put on this Earth for one purpose and that is to remember that I AM God. What? I can understand that I am also a creator because God gave me the will and power to create (my thoughts/emotions/actions all produce energy) but I always saw myself as seperate from God, God being far more powerful than I will ever be because He can do anything imaginable an unimaginable. I guess I can be an incredibly tiny part of God but not all parts of God. How can a tiny part be equal to all parts + that tiny part? One is not equal to infinity plus one! I think that's insulting God, I can't create life in a blink of an eye. Also God said that there are Sponsored thoughts, thoughts that do not come from Him but from people who influence your thinking. So the ability to judge right from wrong does not come from God? I thought God created polarity so He can have something to compare Himself with in order to recognize Himself. He talks about Sponsered thoughts as though not Him but mankind is responsible for its existence but isn't He the one who created fear and all that is not Him? Hope my questions make sense. Btw, it's a very interesting book!
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:55 am

:) Can you see clouded, how your responses, reactions, thoughts, emotions etc already ARE answering your own questions :wink: You already and always are CREATING and the CREATION together as one.

Being 'put on this Earth to remember that you are God', when you realise that you are not separate to anything you will see the wonder-ful nature of experiencing 'aspects' of your self in individuation.

God being far more powerful than I will ever be because He can do anything imaginable an unimaginable.


What's stopping you? Seriously.... what do you 'think' is stopping you?

I guess I can be an incredibly tiny part of God but not all parts of God. How can a tiny part be equal to all parts + that tiny part?
Because in this 'light' you are only aware of experiencing parts of who you are, not the totality all at once as is experienced in the light.

I think that's insulting God,

I kind of agree with you on this one... in insulting your self, in denying your innate capacity to be all that you are, it is kinda insulting to God :wink: hehehe hmm somewhere in those CWG books there is a wonderful discussion about how 'we' turn 'him' down - how we minimise and resist and downplay our real potential to BE all that we really are, in concrete physical examples, I'd love to know how you feel when you've read that part and how many aspects of turning the GOD in you down, I have no idea where in the books it is, but it is wonderful! If you do come across it, please post it.

I can't create life in a blink of an eye. Also God said that there are Sponsored thoughts, thoughts that do not come from Him but from people who influence your thinking. So the ability to judge right from wrong does not come from God? I thought God created polarity so He can have something to compare Himself with in order to recognize Himself
.
WHOAH.... hmm I probably need to go gentle here.

1. You
do
create life - as you experience it, as you know it and as interplays with others creating - in the blink of an eye and in every blink of an eye.

2. Judgements of right or wrong are these 'sponsored thoughts'. As you mentioned above if God is the 'all' -
then all things within the polarities are god. Judging them in separation and understanding the nuances / perspectives of them, are experienced by the human part of you being human - that is, god having your human experience as you create it.

3. On polarities - There are only experiences of the things within the 'space' between the polarities that are known as if in isolation, but they are not really 'in isolation', except in our perspective of experience blocking out the rest of the 'field'.

He talks about Sponsered thoughts as though not Him but mankind is responsible for its existence but isn't He the one who created fear and all that is not Him?

We can focus on any of the 'detail' within any and all experiences of any and all time, place, space, etc in our individuation. Collapsed hot/cold is just perfect warm - but we can focus and 'judge' anywhere within the range of hot-cold 'too ....' we can decide to call them in situational experience 'right' or 'wrong', but they are none of these things they just 'are'. In the collapsing of all perspectives / experiences it is just perfect temperature. The same can be said for any experience of experience.

Fear is just a cloak we pull around us to afford us ignorance of that which we are not seeing / experiencing, or are choosing not to see / experience, in order to experience individuated elements of / in 'separation'.

Btw, it's a very interesting book!

It does tend to cut through a lot of the 'mis-takes'.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby karmarider » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:13 am

Clouded wrote:... started reading Conversations with God (I'm at p.76) ...


I generally prefer to read rather than listen but the audio rendition of this book is particularly good and absorbing. So for this work, I prefer the audio version. It's all on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc1nAQpusLg.

Onceler points out that maybe a lot of this metaphysical stuff is not really relevant to human life. I see that. The CWG does have some metaphysical stuff in it, and yet I see it as an imminently practical approach.

Often, when people come to spirituality or the idea of awakening, there is a lot of confusion about practicality of awakening. How spirituality is actually applicable to our life of drama and suffering and bills and wants and needs and disappointment--is not always cleared up through techniques or practice. I've found the CWG has nicely bridged this gap for me. But I can't always explain why I see what I see.

Clouded wrote:...and there's one thing that I find hard to believe and that is my being equal to God and that I was put on this Earth for one purpose and that is to remember that I AM God. What?


Yes. If there's anything you find hard to believe, you do not have to believe. I have a very practical approach and I have come to see that the journey which many people take here to be a natural human being (to remember who you are), is a practical journey with practical solutions.

I can understand that I am also a creator because God gave me the will and power to create (my thoughts/emotions/actions all produce energy) but I always saw myself as seperate from God..


Fear is the separation.

Also God said that there are Sponsored thoughts, thoughts that do not come from Him but from people who influence your thinking.


The book talks about "sponsoring" thoughts. These are the thoughts behind the thoughts; thoughts which you may not be fully aware of.

It's not hard to see "sponsored" thoughts. Most of our thinking is influenced by others. This is what spirituality is--when you decide to check things for yourself. Which is what you're doing.

So the ability to judge right from wrong does not come from God?


There is no right or wrong. Right and wrong are value judgments--opinion we overlay on experience and people.

There is no absolute right or wrong--and yet, it's perfectly okay to have your values. Values help you navigate. Have your values; be willing to change them easily when they no longer serve.

[/quote]I thought God created polarity so He can have something to compare Himself with in order to recognize Himself. He talks about Sponsered thoughts as though not Him but mankind is responsible for its existence but isn't He the one who created fear and all that is not Him? [/quote]

Yes. We all did. You are love. Fear exists so that love can be thing which can be experienced. (paraphrasing)

Hope my questions make sense.


They do. A lot of questions will come up as you read. I've listened to the work many times over again, and I still always find something new to consider.

Btw, it's a very interesting book!
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby karmarider » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:26 am

smiileyjen101 wrote::) Can you see clouded, how your responses, reactions, thoughts, emotions etc already ARE answering your own questions :wink: You already and always are CREATING and the CREATION together as one.


Well said!
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Clouded » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:58 am

What's stopping you? Seriously.... what do you 'think' is stopping you?


The fact that I am (or think I am) trapped inside a human body, made out of human genes coding for a human brain that allows me to have human senses and human senses only? Now that I think about it, there was a short period in my life when I wondered if God has answered my "prayers" because it seemed too good to be true. I'm kinda embarrassed to share this story, but here goes: when I was 16 I had a HUGE celebrity crush on actor Zac Efron. I had a poster of him, and I would spend days staring at it WISHING WITH ALL MY HEART that one day I could meet him. And one day, it did happen! Out of nowhere, I saw a guy that looked so much like Zac Efron, I could have sworn it was him! And I was not alone to witness him, my friends saw him passing too and they thought he looked like Zac Efron without me pointing it out to them. It's one thing to look like him, but the strangest thing is that it looked like he had the same hairstyle and the same sweater as he did in my poster! I was in awe, it was unreal, what is Zac Efron doing here? Was this a coincidence? Did God summon Zac Efron or a look-a-like for me? Did I summon him? I will never know, all I do know is that I REALLY wanted this to happen to me and it did! :shock: (EDIT: I also think that somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew that it will happen to me because I pictured it happening to me so many times.)

Fear is the separation.

Let's say that I truly am as powerful as God. To be honest, I am afraid of God because God is unpredictable. I would be afraid to be God because I wouldn't want to mess with reality (and mess with other Beings' perception of reality) and make mistakes (even if there is no such thing as a Godly mistake) that leads to fear and suffering (especially to me!). I am afraid of the unknown, I am afraid of what I will do next and what will happen when I do it. I doubt that God is afraid of Himself, He already knows everything so what is there to be afraid of?
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Fore » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:06 pm

Clouded wrote:I know that no human being can give me a definitive answer to my questions, I was just curious to know what your interpretations/beliefs are so I can get some inspiration for mine. :) I have a huge interest in all things that cannot be tested so easily with our technology and I sometimes wonder what it is like to be God and know everything that there is to know about the Universe and all of it's dimensions.


No blind belief is necessary, and you are the technology to know God, the universe, and all of it's dimensions. Nothing more than you is necessary.

When your time comes take a look, perhaps you need to suffer a bit more, another birth or two perhaps. :wink:
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Clouded » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:13 pm

If it weren't for technology (the Internet) I would have probably never discovered Eckhart Tolle. This forum to me is a ladder to enlightment. Where would I be without people like that to guide me? I would probably still be depressed. I can't do it on my own, I need somebody to give me an idea on how to do it. I guess I need to experience being God in order to know that I am God.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby Fore » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:46 am

Clouded wrote:Where would I be without people like that to guide me? I would probably still be depressed.


You will still experience depressed states, if you want people to pump you up you can find them everywhere, this is not the teachings.

Clouded wrote: I can't do it on my own, I need somebody to give me an idea on how to do it.


This is where Eckharts teachings fell short for me as well, he is unavailable to teach, he does not have a training centre, and you will get all kinds of info on the net, some good, some questionable.

Clouded wrote:
I guess I need to experience being God in order to know that I am God.


Sort of, you need to be taught how to experience this teaching and put it into practice in daily life. You need to physically enter the water to learn to swim.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:51 am

I guess I need to experience being God in order to know that I am God.


Goodness me Clouded, you are so beautiful, so gorgeous in your authentic sharing, you brought tears to my eyes and make me want to hug you to within an inch of your earthly life, in joy!! (my girls would call this the 'squeeeezzy hug' - consider yourself squeezed in delight! :o )

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to BE here every creation / creator in the universe is BEING its own experience, expression of God. Your BEING is gorgeous in expression / creation as you.


Clouded said: (in response to what's stopping you?)
The fact that I am (or think I am) trapped inside a human body, made out of human genes coding for a human brain that allows me to have human senses and human senses only? Now that I think about it...

Watching you answer your own questions is delightful! Yes the forum and our interactions / relationships with others, experiences in our perspectives, are all a 'sounding board', an opportunity to BE all that we truly are and to know this, be this, NOW.. (that I think about it)...that clarity that all things are possible within our creating. Every moment experienced in NOWness, an opportunity to realise that we are creating our own experiences, we are creation creating these individuated experiences.

It's why the Power of NOW is a pretty good pointer.

In presence experiencing the fullness of NOW, you realise you are not 'trapped' inside a human body, you are love creating life, the experiences, the growth and the awareness of all creation through this vehicle - amazing vehicle for its own purpose really, just like every other vehicle in the universe, - no less than the trees and the stars...

And you are doing this willingly, you are not a prisoner of your body or your life, you are the creator and the creation of it.

Let's say that I truly am as powerful as God.

Let us say that you are :D
- the 'insights' manifest - are created by you in the energy of this acceptance...
To be honest, I am afraid of God because God is unpredictable.


Honesty is the highest form of love, in the expressing of it one knows our true power in action.

Yes all aspects of god are unpredictable, and that's okay too! - that's how we come to 'know' what previously has not been 'known'. Predictability of anything is an assumption, not a reality of the experience of all the perspectives and nuances of a 'thing'. You are only response able for your perspective /creation of it, others will / create their own.

I would be afraid to be God because I wouldn't want to mess with reality (and mess with other Beings' perception of reality) and make mistakes


Again, in honesty, in love, you have answered your own 'fear' - cloaked awareness
even if there is no such thing as a Godly mistake that leads to fear and suffering (especially to me!).

The fear and suffering is a perspective - a choice of how to 'view', whether or not to accept the 'okayness' of everything created and creating.

I am afraid of the unknown, I am afraid of what I will do next and what will happen when I do it. I doubt that God is afraid of Himself,

Umm... if you are experiencing fear... it follows that god / creation is experiencing an element of fear... is there a need for fear? or is it just a perception - an 'angle' a choosing, a creation?

The power of love is so 'more', so incredibly 'more' than we believe ourselves capable of handling / experiencing. It shakes the boots of our physical form. If we have cloaked ourselves in fear of the 'unknown', if we have turned the 'power' down, letting it flow can feel pretty scary, responses from others can influence us in terms of 'allowing'.

He already knows everything so what is there to be afraid of?

When you stop separating 'him' from 'you' the cloak of fear will be known for what it really is.


Karmarider said: But I can't always explain why I see what I see.

Yum! Yum! Yum!

Fore said: perhaps you need to suffer a bit more, another birth or two perhaps. :wink:

Every moment is an opportunity to rebirth, but suffering in it is optional. Suffering is only experiencing the resistance to what is.
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