Why be born in the first place?

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:40 pm

Smileyjen, I don't have much time today so I am going to have to answer your wonderfully complex post later. I just wanted to say one thing about it being dangerous to think you are God. What I mean is people have trouble distinguishing their ego from their true Self. The ego gets a hold of that thought "I am God" and suddenly you have a messianic complex, and cult leaders like Charlie Manson (I believe he thought he was Jesus/God). That's why I like to say "there is nothing but God." That means me too, but I'm not attaching my "I" to God.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby SandyJoy » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:01 pm

I agree, we are not God. God is being all that I am and there is a big difference.

Jesus said (and I do believe that Jesus was always speaking his message from the view that God is All i.e. oneness-nonduality) Jesus said: I and my Father are one but my Father is greater than I. That says it right to me.

When we first understand that God is All, we quite naturally begin to equate our self with God; If all is God "then I must be God"---but this is a mistaken position, perhaps a necessary one--- and usually it won't last too long, we move along from there, realizing I am not God and cannot ever be God--A big relief, I am not responsible for all the suffering and sorrow in the world---God is responsible for it all and I am God's Child, ready and willing to do God's will and listening to My Heart and trusting My Soul and holding God's hand, I am free to Love Life just the way it is.

Released from guilt that I somehow am the cause of all I see-- I am not---and yet the mystery and magic is that when I let go and let God be All, my world is seen in a new light and all the sorrow and suffering are understood for the divine reasons the shadows exists---I am changed and my world is seen as Heavenly and Perfect. Not being God I am free in the Joy of being My Self and then, I can Live this Life with the simple, easy, Child's innocent Love and tender knowing.

And then the sweetest of all happens, Grace was given, Grace came to me--unmerited, unexpected, Grace came into my Heart. God's kindness is with me, a Grace that I did nothing to deserve. Grace, Sweet Miracle of Love, a gift from God unearned by me. Grace now divinely upholds me, leads me aright.

We find the Light and Life of our Self and we are resurrected, reborn to Live again, just as you are, just this simple, tender Child of God you are. Here I found the original self of me---My Heart and Soul, now, I am unbeholden to names and labels and words and ism's or instructions or rituals or practices of any kind-- be they spiritual, nondual, or otherwise ---Not being God is such a Joy, such a grand relief--- Blessed be God that I am free, just free,unbound, honest and faithful as the Child I Am.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:59 pm

SmileyJen wrote:
Taking quotes out of context and using them in isolation to support perspective is ... well just is, I guess
I remembered these quotes from having read the books fifteen years ago. I went back to read them again a year or so later to be sure it said what I remembered. I just can't imagine writing, "Hitler didn't inflict suffering, he ended it." I'm not sure how that can mean anything other than to be alive is to suffer so it's better to be dead. There is a philosopher who published a book recently to this point. "Better Never To Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence," by David Benatar, argues that because of the inevitability of suffering it’s better not to be born at all.

When I posted those quotes I wasn't trying to use them to support anything, I was asking to be corrected if I was misunderstanding what Walsch meant. I didn't see how the point of view expressed in those quotes reconciled with what karmarider had written about CWG: life is the grateful celebration of the opportunity to experience.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby far_eastofwest » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:16 pm

Yet what if I told you that what you call “death” is the greatest thing that could happen to anyone—what then? (CWG Book 2, p. 36)

The mistakes Hitler made did no harm or damage to those whose deaths he caused. Those souls were released from their earthly bondage, like butterflies emerging from a cocoon.
(CWG Book 2, p. 42)

So the first thing you have to understand—as I’ve already explained to you—is that Hitler didn’t hurt anyone. In a sense, he didn’t inflict suffering, he ended it. (CWG Book 2, p. 56)


well thats a load of shit isn't it?

the butterflies emerge from their cocoons to LIVE so its a pretty stupid analogy to start with.

honestly my pigeons are smarter than who ever writes this tat.... they seem to know how to manage life without having to read one book....

Male: find prospective partner, pursue diligently with lots of head bobby and cooing.... win partners heart over
mate with partner, follow partner around (I like this characteristic, lol) for a while, staying very close.
Collect building materials for nest, leave materials for female to arrange, share care of egg hatching in equal split shifts, share feeding and raising of young (both get time out), be happy with partner until one dies. Ask for needs to be met (watching pigeons, one grooms the others bits they can't reach, if the other doesn't reciprocate, second pigeon edges closer, gives a few nudges until pigeon A returns the favour).
Oh, and enjoy life, coo lots, cuddle lots, communicate, have bird baths.
If no partner (ie, neighbourhood cats decide to 'release the pigeons mate's soul from the 'suffering' of life,), well single pigeons just get on with it and come around for seed and care for themselves.

Life is to be lived and not to spend too much time trying to figure out something a simple pigeon has no difficulty with..... in fact googling 'pigeon facts' may bring much more enlightenment than reading tomes of stuff written from people who have so much trouble finding a bit of joy in life that when they finally do they need to tell everyone how smart they are at having worked out this simple thing and write a book with their great discovery.....

Look at the birds of the air....... (knew someone had noticed this before).

:-)
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Especially when there is no cat....
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:06 am

hehehe set the cat among the pigeons and watch the commotion :lol:

the butterflies emerge from their cocoons to LIVE so its a pretty stupid analogy to start with.

Actually, one would have to look at their definition of 'to live' from their perspective. To the other caterpillars their 'friend' has gone, their friend is no longer with them, Oh dear, what happened to them? They were here just the other day, we were walking on the path together, and now they are gone. Oh goodness I hope that doesn't happen to me..... oh maybe it happened to them because ...(insert whatever)... oh, I must be careful not to do / be that.

What would it be if there were one among them who said:
'Fear not my friends, our friend is now the most beautiful of all creatures, with wings of gorgeous filigree and lightness soaring within magnificent bodies, flying above and among us. They are not dead, they have just changed their form of being. Our friend's time as caterpillar is over, but their time as a butterfly has come!! Rejoice, do not despair! And when it comes time for you to be enclothed in the restraints of a cocoon, know that you will emerge as a beautiful butterfly! Look, see - there she is!!!


That's not her.
Yes it is.
Oh, I think she waved at me, maybe it is her.

The responses might be -
'Oh, okay...well I better munch as many of these yummy cabbage leaves as I can before I turn into a butterfly.'
'Load of shit, once you go into that cocoon that's it, it's all over red rover.'
'I wonder what it's like to fly free like that? She's so beautiful. Oh, I'm so dull and boring in this lumpy slow body.


:wink:
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:39 am

Kathleen said: I just wanted to say one thing about it being dangerous to think you are God. What I mean is people have trouble distinguishing their ego from their true Self. The ego gets a hold of that thought "I am God" and suddenly you have a messianic complex, and cult leaders like Charlie Manson (I believe he thought he was Jesus/God). That's why I like to say "there is nothing but God." That means me too, but I'm not attaching my "I" to God.


SandyJoy said: Jesus said (and I do believe that Jesus was always speaking his message from the view that God is All i.e. oneness-nonduality) Jesus said: I and my Father are one but my Father is greater than I. That says it right to me.


Forgive me I cannot help but layer the perceptions of 'dangerous' through these two - yes it was 'dangerous' for the mortal self of Jesus to argue the point, that wasn't the end of it though was it?

Dangerous - able to cause physical harm.


My thumb and me are one, but my thumb is not greater than me.

In context in CWG, or maybe it's in friendship with god there is a discussion about what idiot called me 'Father'? Don't they realise many people have punitive and dysfunctional understandings of relating with a father, and that will only turn them away more? It's all interpretation and perspective. ...god Is all interpretation and perspective, no thing excluded.

Kathleen said: When I posted those quotes I wasn't trying to use them to support anything, I was asking to be corrected if I was misunderstanding what Walsch meant. I didn't see how the point of view expressed in those quotes reconciled with what karmarider had written about CWG: life is the grateful celebration of the opportunity to experience.

A possible reason that you remembered those quotes and attributed them as a core resonance of the CWG books is because they likely butted up against your own perspective and were something you found difficult to accept (embrace) into your perception of life. Then when you 'met with' Karmarider's version of his perception of the books they were at a distance, and niggling against each other.

My point was not that you were distorting or misrepresenting anything, CWG does (I haven't gone back to look, I believe you) say those things, but they are said in the context of the whole conversations they don't come out of the blue without building blocks in understanding underneath them. Absolutely things will 'resonate' in love/acceptance or in fear/resistance and become memorable.

For instance, Karmarider 'heard' about CWG many many times before he 'accepted into himself' to read them. His resistance was the use of the word 'God', based on his experiences and perspectives of all the connotations of that word being used.
He's expressed his own surprise (difference in expectation - reality) as to what he found within the conversations. He's also agreed that some things resonated and some things didn't.

'What' resonates is the personal journey.

The misunderstanding that we all experience is not recognising when we are only viewing one 'angle' of the crystal/diamond, or when we are aware of two - opposing - angles/perspectives of a thing and think both that we have to 'choose' and/or that these are the only two options.

My point was in equilibrium - form collapsed - there are no angles, there is only the 'all' in perfection. And it would not be the 'all in perfection' without any element of it.

Equilibrium - the condition of a system in which all competing influences are balanced, in a wide variety of contexts.


We only 'notice' the influences - the perspectives, when they are highlighted separately from the whole.

We only know cold because we know hot etc
We only know love because we know fear
We only know life because we know death


You mention in your book about the effects of gossip - gossip is merely presenting one's own version of events, adding perspective and sharing it in that 'influence'/perspective - it's not the 'whole', it's not in equilibrium. In terms of how that spreads in either love/acceptance or fear/resistance as if it is a 'finite' thing when it's not, it's just a few lines from a very long conversation - all of which are still 'elements' within the equilibrium.

The way I see it, those passages have helped me release my fear of my inevitable death, and the fear of life, and has helped me put the death of loved ones in context. So I don't see it as a glorification of death. Neither do I see it as an invitation to die. But I can see the viewpoint which might interpret it in that way.


Holy cow! Walsh/God said that about Hitler!? So Hitler was a savior? Brain cannot compute.


well thats a load of shit isn't it?


If one were to 'collate' and collapse all of the perspectives of just those few quotes as they've spread from reader to reader to non reader to this forum and other platforms exponentially, none of those 'influences' are the whole thing. Only when they are all collapsed into one - equilibrium - are all the 'competing' influences balanced.

And in that there is no 'good' 'bad' by element or perspective there just is the totality of it.


The thing about whether we are God or not - is the same for me - there is only separation in perspective / influences, the totality is god and god is eternal equilibrium.

In that sense whoever you feel to be 'different' to you is just a different 'influence' 'perspective' while in form where separation and influences are seen / experienced in individuation.

In your book Kathleen (p53) you say "Shame and pride counterbalance one another.'
In equilibrium they collapse into the timeless white light in balance of all the competing influences, across all the wide variety of contexts, across all of eternity that we 'perceive' to be static and measurable time.


All shared in my humble perspective through and of my experiences in separation, being no more and no less than any other offered. hehehehe!
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby SandyJoy » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:55 am

The Truth includes it all; the simple, pure nature of the pigeons and the worms wondering where their friend went. Very cute, both stories are charming and hold a lot of Truth in them.

The one thing I have found is that when we find out for our self that there is no death and that knowing is real, not just speculation, but really see and know, then, at least for me, it makes Life so rich and full, we see it really is all Love.

Life then, has no end, and so we Love the whole vast Entirety of It---like, what's not love when death no longer exists as real.

Now, when we know there is no death, we see Life from a new view---the whole thing just opens up like a giant sphere without boarders or edges--just endless Life. Of course you'd not want to die, when nothing dies. It puts an end to notion and sweeps us up with Only Love

Like knowing that the sun really has not dropped off the edge of earth when it vanishes below the horizon. But, of course we know this. We are no longer fearful cave-men praying for the return of sun.

Only the cave-man perspective makes it seem as if the sun is gone and darkness rules.

Perspective, as Jen says, the cocoon is not the end but the time of transformation, and resurrection to New Life.

We can trust totally and always this All one big Life Force and Knowing Intelligence that never dies, that is being the very Perfect Identity we are.

Once we know there is no death, we are able to Live in Joy and Peace and Thankfulness.

To see there is no death allows for a 'new world' to be seen, right here in the same world we always were living--- that vision is given to us and we are transformed, our view is lifted up and Love is seen to be all there is, Love for this Sweet Mystery called Life.

Oh Jen, I was posting this the same time as you were---So, I just read your post--- I will say, yes, quite right, Jesus was killed by the powers in control who did not want the Truth revealed. That is correct, knowing there is no death, does not prevent our transition from this tangible world of time and body--that is very true, at least for how it appears from here. But knowing there is no death certainly makes Life here in this world a zillion times more wonderful and rich and exciting---- and it makes it a lot easier to go when the time is come.
Last edited by SandyJoy on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:14 am

Oh Jen, I was posting this the same time as you were---So, I just read your post--- I will say, yes, quite right, Jesus was killed by the powers in control who did not want the Truth revealed. That is correct, knowing there is no death, does not prevent our transition from this tangible world of time and body--that is very true, at least for how it appears from here. But knowing there is no death certainly makes Life here in this world a zillion times more wonderful and rich and exciting---- and it makes it a lot easier to go when the time is come.


:D :D :D :D :D :D

Yup!

I'd also add, neither does it stop us from experiencing all the possible reactions to it. Possibly projected worse when it is not happening to us (individual experiencing the 'thing' in context, one thing building upon another), and more when it gets intertwined with our projections and expectations of what should happen to others in their experiencing their individual perspectives.

I watched an interview with the parents of a boy killed in a 'senseless' outburst of violence (my 'higher self' accepts that violence is the change that throws us headlong into our future - change is the violence that throws us headlong into our future) my 'mother' persona feels the anguish and pain they are sharing and knows by experience some of the opportunities they will be presented with to choose love over fear; the mother expressed hatred for the 'perpetrator' and one part of me knows through experience that the hatred that is spewing from them is the same as the hatred that was spewing from the 'other', albeit 'restricted' by perspective and experience; and I had a 'collapsing' moment, knowing the mother could not see this yet, was cloaked from it.

I 'felt' love for all involved, compassion for all involved, understanding for all involved, and there too grace unfolds the cloaks of fear and separation.

And I 'noticed' hatred is the easiest choice in such a situation, but it is the hardest to heal. It hardens against healing.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby karmarider » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:27 am

Yet what if I told you that what you call “death” is the greatest thing that could happen to anyone—what then? (CWG Book 2, p. 36)

The mistakes Hitler made did no harm or damage to those whose deaths he caused. Those souls were released from their earthly bondage, like butterflies emerging from a cocoon.
(CWG Book 2, p. 42)

So the first thing you have to understand—as I’ve already explained to you—is that Hitler didn’t hurt anyone. In a sense, he didn’t inflict suffering, he ended it. (CWG Book 2, p. 56)


You have to read these quotations in context. The first is in the context of the paradigm that there is no such thing as death; that death is merely a transformation. The important thing being talked about in that context is not death; but actually life. Life is moment to moment experiencing and creating--and God (the soul, oneness, consciousness) does not interfere with the free choice.

Here's the summary of that chapter:

• There is no time but this time; there is no moment but this moment.

• Time is not a continuum. It is an aspect of Relativity that exists in an “up and down” paradigm, with “moments” or “events” stacked on top of each other, happening or occurring at the same “time.”

• We are constantly traveling between realities in this realm of time-no time-all time, usually in our sleep. “Déjà vu” is one way we are made aware of this.

• There has never been a time when we were “not”—nor will there ever be.

• The concept of “Age” as it relates to souls really has to do with levels of awareness, not length of “time.”

• There is no evil.

• We are Perfect, just as we are.

• “Wrong” is a conceptualization of the mind, based in Relative Experience.

• We are making up the rules as we go along, changing them to fit our Present Reality, and that’s perfectly all right. It’s as it should be, must be, if we are to be evolving beings.

• Hitler went to heaven(!)

• Everything that happens is God’s Will—everything. That includes not just hurricanes, tornadoes, and earthquakes, but Hitler as well. The secret of understanding is knowing the Purpose behind all events.

• There are no “punishments” after death, and all consequences exist only in Relative Experience, not in the Realm of the Absolute.

• Human theologies are mankind’s insane attempt to explain an insane God who does not exist.

• The only way human theologies make sense is if we accept a God who makes no sense at all.


The other two quotations are similary out of context. I would say you'd have to read the chapter 3 and 4 to see that these quotations are not as bizarre as they sound taken out of the context: http://www.universe-people.com/english/ ... _god_2.htm

The central message of the CWG, the way I have interpreted it, is that of the purpose of life. It is the freedom to enjoy life in celebration and gratitude. The universe is your playground, your moment-to-moment opportunity to experience who you are.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:38 pm

I think there are two ideas here and that’s making for a little confusion. Certainly there is a higher plane from which to view the events of human life. Death is a transformation into another form, it is not the end. Time is an illusion. Everything that happens is perfect. This, as karmarider said, makes life much more enjoyable because it removes some of the fear of death. From this understanding Hitler was not evil. I am in complete accord with this concept, and the points that karmarider brings out from the chapters surrounding the quotes I mentioned certainly resonate with my experience.

The other point, though, is that there seems to be a subtle devaluing of life, in my opinion. This is what I was saying when I pulled out Clouded’s questions about spirituality being equated with death, for example, “So to be God is to want to DIE/leave this world!?”

I went to the link karmarider gave for CWG, and found this passage near the end of chapter 4 that includes one of the sentences I quoted earlier. It seems to me the fuller passage in context only amplifies the message that "life is suffering":

Walsch: I still don’t understand how Hitler could have gone to heaven; how he could have been rewarded for what he did?
God: First, understand that death is not an end, but a beginning; not a horror, but a joy. It is not a closing down, but an opening up.
The happiest moment of your life will be the moment it ends.
That’s because it doesn’t end but only goes on in ways so magnificent, so full of peace and wisdom and joy, as to make it difficult to describe and impossible for you to comprehend.
So the first thing you have to understand—as I’ve already explained to you—is that Hitler didn’t hurt anyone. In a sense, he didn’t inflict suffering, he ended it.
It was the Buddha who said “Life is suffering.” The Buddha was right.


Sandy Joy wrote:
“To see there is no death allows for a 'new world' to be seen, right here in the same world we always were living--- that vision is given to us and we are transformed, our view is lifted up and Love is seen to be all there is, Love for this Sweet Mystery called Life.”

This is what I am talking about. Spiritual consciousness--Love--brought into the world and transforming life here and now. No waiting until after death.

I think life exists for a divine purpose. We suffer when we misunderstand the purpose. When you do understand it, life is magnificent and you enjoy all the ways that the divine purpose unfolds--including those things which before you called suffering.

I imagine the universe being like a video game. Nobody would play a game in which they won on the first level, or second, or tenth. When you’re playing a videogame, the point isn’t really to win. It’s to master the various levels. You lose countless times. You are killed over and over. You fail constantly. But you aren’t suffering, you're experiencing pleasure, because you understand that failure and loss are an essential part of mastering the game. If the game was so easy you mastered it the first time there would be no challenge, learning, discovery, growth; the game would be completely boring.

So in life: death is an illusion, loss is an illusion, failure is an illusion, suffering is an illusion. Within the game it appears very real, so we struggle to survive as if our lives depend on it, making the game very interesting. But from the vantage point of the Player, all that suffering and loss is revealed to be a mirage. The Player doesn’t want the Game to be over in a blink of an eye. There are many, many levels to traverse and master before we get Home. I, for one, am celebrating all the levels, not trying to rush through them.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby kutto » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:30 am

KB wrote:
What I see in many spiritual practices is the implication that life sucks. The goal is to get out.


I think that is true, initially, as a message and goal for many who enter spiritual practice - the irony is if the spiritual practices and awareness keep growing those same people may well find themselves finding why they found the 'get out' message so attractive, smile and realise the 'getting out' was a way of 'getting back in' (to life)' and all part of their growth process. Reentering with new perspective on the growth that was actually taking place all the time.

Thats the beautiful thing about continued spiritual practice and observation - Every experience leads to lessons and new beginnings. Everything loops around on itself growing and changing all the time. Though it does not often feel this way - at first....
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:46 am

Kutto said:

smile and realise the 'getting out' was a way of 'getting back in' (to life)'


That is gorgeous Kutto. In a sense maybe ET's dying to your self before you die. (?)

The 'suffering' is in the false notion of good/bad, separation etc that we grow into believing, and then discard.
Man's fall from grace - the 'knowledge' of good and evil.
Is not that there is good and evil standing outside of 'all creation', more that man distinguishes and therefore experiences it to be so.

It was the Buddha who said “Life is suffering.” The Buddha was right.

Life is experiencing the 'elements' in isolation that are not in isolation at all, they just appear to be so.

I agree realising this in form and embracing the 'nuances' with awareness is wonder-full and well worth the journey.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby karmarider » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:17 am

KathleenBrugger wrote:I think there are two ideas here and that’s making for a little confusion. Certainly there is a higher plane from which to view the events of human life. Death is a transformation into another form, it is not the end. Time is an illusion. Everything that happens is perfect. This, as karmarider said, makes life much more enjoyable because it removes some of the fear of death. From this understanding Hitler was not evil. I am in complete accord with this concept, and the points that karmarider brings out from the chapters surrounding the quotes I mentioned certainly resonate with my experience.

The other point, though, is that there seems to be a subtle devaluing of life, in my opinion. This is what I was saying when I pulled out Clouded’s questions about spirituality being equated with death, for example, “So to be God is to want to DIE/leave this world!?”


We're both looking at the same passages and coming up with two different impressions. The impression you have is that CWG is minimizing life and glorifying after-life. The impression I have is the CWG is minimizing death to glorify life.

You say that the devaluing of life is subtle, but it actually isn't subtle at all. It's expressed pretty strongly in the quotations you point out and in other places in the CWG. But still, in a sense, the devaluing of life is what glorifies it.

As you say further down, you see life as a video game. I do too (well, there are the times I forget and then I suffer). You say: for the video game to be useful, it must be challenging, with increasing levels of awareness, with death and killing and failing, and if you're aware of who you really are, then you don't suffer through it, and still gain the experience.

And it's all about experience--the knowledge part is small and unintersting and a sterile noun. When really you know who you are--you want the knowing to be a dynamic verb, and that is experience.

And so, possibly, the disconnect, if there is any, is the concern that some people might interpret these passages as an invitation to die, or to give up on life, because there is something better waiting for them.

It can't be denied that that may be the case. I see these passages as giving life a purpose. I am very gratefull for the moment-to-moment opportunity to experience who I am. I could not do that were it not for the relativity of this world. If there is something better waiting for me--well, that's a bonus! But what I care about is this life, human life, right here and now.

And so these passages, as bizzare as they may sound in the conventional context. do make sense. I don't tend towards esoterics. Generally, to ideas around after-life and NDE and oneness, I do have a perspective, and it's close to the CWG and the Hindu point of view of consciousness, but mostly I can comfortably say I don't know, and for the most part it is not relevant to my human life. But in testing out the pardigm that who I am is eternal and my human life is my glorious opportunity to experience who I am in relativity, it has made a great deal of sense and given deep resonance to my life. And so I stay with. Until it no longer serves me.
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby KathleenBrugger » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:23 pm

Yes karmarider, I do think some people will take from these passages that life isn't worth living. There's the sense that the spiritual is "better" than the physical, when they are in fact the same. And I'm not picking on CWG (it was just what was being discussed in this thread); the attitude that you need to retreat from life in order to pursue spirituality is not uncommon.

There is also the pursuit of spirituality in order to escape any future reincarnations: I know someone who has been studying with a guru in India and meditating 14 hours a day for 12 years with the explicit goal of never returning to this life. Her goal is to "escape the wheel of death and rebirth." This is what I was getting at in the video game analogy--there's the implication that she will jump straight from being a human being to complete and total reunification with the One. I hope there's a lot more to the Game than that.
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
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Re: Why be born in the first place?

Postby SandyJoy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:09 pm

Yes, when I realized that Life is One Presence, always Spiritual, all things existing because Life, Mind, Consciousness is God's Alone and all that we see is the direct knowing that God Is Here---the world of we see that appears to be "out there" is really and can only and always be Here as Presence of Godhead the All in all.

Nothing is "out there" . Nothing is beyond All That Is. Everything we see is made of pure Love, living Spirit, Infinite Idea, Unbound Mind, Ever Present Existence----Life is God Itself--There is no separation, we are the sons of God, the Child of God, the Light of God, the Awareness of God---and no time we are Not Being God's Living Light so no where to get and no where to go. We cannot escape Life, we are That and All Is That, you cannot 'go beyond' This. What we all 'death' is seeing that Soul move to another dimension that is Right Here and Now, but we don't see it ---someday it will be revealed so everyone will know.

And Here is the Real Wonder of It; Nothing can keep us from this Living Presence, not even 14 years of trying to escape, we are always and forever Here and Now This Living Presence of God, whether we know it or not.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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