Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:49 am

I originally posted about this discovery in the Neuroscience for Beginners topic - but it's MORE, hence the new topic.
viewtopic.php?p=102902#p102902
viewtopic.php?p=102903#p102903

Flatline is not the end. And now we 'know' this clinically, scientifically - so now what?

That I chose to create this topic in Beyond the Physical section is maybe 'loose' connecting, but maybe not. What was once thought to be the end of consciousness and life - flat line - is now by this new discovery known not to be the 'end' at all. For me it has immense implications in terms of our acceptance and understanding of things that are personally known and experienced - nde, clair abilities, synchronicity and equilibrium and oneness awareness and all that beyond the physical 'stuff'.

This has both scientific and personal implications for all of us, and for the whole world and our planet and every thing - if we let it be.

It may well be that our capacity - our true capacity will be embraced by the opening of this door, and maybe allow us to open other doors. Or the door may be twisted and / or slammed shut again in fear - and so I tremble in anticipation of the unfolding of it.

And I have to say just absorbing it and the implications of it across multi-dimensional layers, made me again 'touch' the expanse experienced in the light - as 'home', and once again have to try and stuff that all back into my body and rebalance the joy of being here and the homesickness in a way. Be both full seeing and partly blind.

Ironically or maybe not as I shared the new discovery with my partner tears and heartfelt .... I do not have a word for it............ not distress, not joy, not hope, not totally relief, but that and all emotions of a thing being uncovered - a new door opening - albeit it is not a door that has (maybe) not been walked through before - I split apart all over again. (and then hurt my back so I do 'acutely know' that my consciousness is still in 'form').

I realise this could add fodder to both sides of the argument of whether consciousness is confined and created IN our brains, or if Consciousness is experienced BY our brains. I am still more leaning towards the latter - but if I'm wrong what a hilarious joke that will be. But then again even this would not explain post 'death' communication of 'new' information and the collapse of time and space in equilibrium still being experienced. So I'm still on the side of our brains being a more than we realise capacity to receive and transmit consciousness.

In which case this is still a wonderful discovery that what we knew of our brain's capacity is not finite, is not the totality of its true capacity.

In trying to explain to my partner why it has affected me so emotionally (I am mentally, physically, and emotionally overwhelmed and exhausted by it & the implications of it) I cannot do it justice - it's love for both 'here' and 'there', it's both acknowledging and accepting the physicality and limitations of 'here' and the opening the door again to the immenseness of 'there'. It's that I know that even beyond this door - the new knowledge - there are many paths that can be chosen in interpreting it. I know that it is one more piece in the puzzle from this side, that while it supports the capacity of the brain, - to me in experience - it also supports that what I experienced (and other nde'rs report of their experiences), that the data and the knowledge gained and absorbed into experiential wisdom was not delusional or a fabrication of imagination or hallucination, it was real. More real and more absorbed than any of the turned down knowledges and wisdoms of this 3 dimensional world.

And the arguments against it being real was its impossibility, which this discovery will now possibly bring into question.

Again as I have before I accept I was not irreversibly 'dead' in my experience albeit clinical indications were that I was more 'dead' than 'alive'. My point has always been that I was more alive and more conscious than I have ever been in 'life' as we know it and limit it to be.

In the Wizard of Oz it was not the point that the Wizard that they thought real and could transport them home and grant them their courage and their wisdom and their true heart that was important in the discovery that he could not - it was that they had that power within themselves all the time. They only had to accept and employ that, not look outside for it, look within for it.

I'm no scientist and I'm sure there will be limitations on the understanding of these 'Nu Complexes'. I do still smile that I wonder if it will open the door to an understanding of Omega Consciousness.

I also realise this will beyond many to digest, but I am hoping that those who have asked questions or made contributions to the many topics surrounding 'beyond the physical' and in neuroscience and consciousness will join in discussing it.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:15 am

smiileyjen101 wrote: it also supports that what I experienced (and other nde'rs report of their experiences)


I have some thoughts regarding this, what was your experience?
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:06 am

I'd love to hear your ideas Fore, and any others'.

For me it's not just the 'experience', but 30 years of living 'post experience' with awareness that there are doors we can open, not 'no doors' as has been accepted and used as arguments against the validity of the knowledge gained - through those doors.

In part I detailed a nde and some of the 'post' nuances in this topic - viewtopic.php?f=47&t=8712 NDE, Clair (abilities) and synchronicity - titled that way because for me they all speak to the 'same' level of awareness/es and that was the subject matter of the movie being discussed The Hereafter.

I am highly empathic and clairvoyant/sentient/audial and am aware of a different 'level of consciousness' in through the 'veil' communication in terms of 'difference' in resonance / frequency as you put it in the other thread. I've had heaps of validated transfers of accurate information since I was a child (11) receiving information from my Granny from 12000 miles away in her passing. I felt like I inherited her 'sight', she was 'fey' and a healer so these things were not completely unknown to me - the nde 'state' was though, completely unknown. It was 1982 and I didn't learn of another's experience (except for me trying to figure out Jesus' ressurrection ;) until 7 years later.

I have participated in research studies etc in the last 10 years, as science has opened itself up a little more than it was at the time of my experience.

This 'revelation' of flatline not being the 'end' of brain activity... it 'feels' really important and for me opening a 'right' door, rather than many of the false paths some in science have taken in the past in order not to explain, but to distort and demonise and negate the experiences and with that totally ignore the validity of the information transferred through time/space etc that we are not 'supposed' to be able to do, and yet many do, and have all throughout human history.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:31 am

I saw the movie Hereafter, and the NDE that the woman had, reminded me of what I would interpret as a heavenly realm. A plane of existence with a very pleasant vibrational frequency.

We can spend all our time looking for things to bring us satisfaction, but due to the impermanent nature of things this is ultimately impossible. This includes NDE's, eventually they end, and so will the accompanying pleasant vibration. One may find that they need more NDE's or similar experiences to constantly feed this desire. I fear to that scientists looking outwardly at things will just find more things, interesting but not satisfying.

Understand that we are dying trillions of times per second and each death determines the next birth. Rebirth as a human being is extraordinarily rare. It is also extraordinarily precious, as its unique balance of pleasure and pain facilitates the development of virtue and wisdom to the degree necessary to set one free from the entire cycle of rebirths.

This is not a judgement towards you jen, as I have no idea of your level of practice. Just something you may or may not find interesting.

There was a book I read called The story of Mae Chee Kaew a Buddhist nun, she to had similar abilities as you. A great meditation master came to town and recognised her high level of concentration at a young age and started her on meditation. A time came that the master had to leave, and he forbid her from meditating or using her abilities while he was gone. He told her that a great teacher would come in the future to continue her teaching but until then she was not to practice.

She obeyed for some time but eventually took up the practice on her own, she fell into a deep pitfall on the path(she became lost in this other world, with no one to guide her). The great teacher eventually came into her life, and was able to pull her out of this pit. He redirected her use of this concentration and she soon reached full enlightenment.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:45 am

Fore thank you for that sharing, such a love-ly expression.

We can spend all our time looking for things to bring us satisfaction, but due to the impermanent nature of things this is ultimately impossible.

If we recognise the impermanent nature.. then is it looking for, or looking at/with satisfaction?

eg: having received your love filled communication, I took myself outside (as I tend to do) give my self space with it. I knelt (not prayer like, just bended knees) at a place where the energy is kinda nice and not too imposing. I was 'looking at' a space of about one feet by two feet on the ground level, two separate lady birds fluttering about their business and I feel their purpose and attention, a few large ants more 'boisterous' than the ladybirds, 'weeds' thriving and seasonally growing amid the grass, neither knowing one is 'prized' the other 'not'. A rock in the ground that would look like a mountain to them all, and one tiny little ant pushing his way up it with tenacity, arriving at the top and looking around, surveying the scene not unlike I was.
I turned and stood and the traffic on the road behind me was 'no different' to the scene I'd just been 'with' in my looking at. Satisfaction, for me is just being with, without resistance.

All the while your words and your intention in them no different to the warm breezes caressing my skin and warming from the outside in. IN this moment (forgive me I did not mean to shout, the caps stayed on and I had to go back to reflect on the value of them), in this moment all things are, in harmony even if we judge it otherwise.

Within miniscule difference in time (before I saw your post) I had just been reflecting on an Anais Nin quote -
Life is so fluid that one can only hope to capture the living moment, to capture it alive and fresh ... without destroying that moment.

Capture then is not to hold onto, but to be held in.

In relation to this 'new' discovery that science has uncloaked, the living moment, is so much more than we give credit to, and to what we give credit to ourselves to know, and to be with/in.

In terms of the Hereafter, the movie, the synchronicity of it, the denials of 'facts' in the face of 'facts', the sensitivity and awarenesses of Matt Damon's character sharing the absolute ethics and response abilities of it - these things that were touched on will be issues that will be flushed up in those that understand or seek to understand what the new discovery is pointing towards. For many that will be a revolution in itself, with all the perspective-(perceptualising)-conceptualising (?!) of a revolution.

I cannot see 'full enlightenment' as an individual pursuit, how could it be when to 'find it' is to lose oneself and realise that what is was merely cloaked by the unknowing of it all, into perspective? Noticing however the folly of human arrogance that a thing known by perspective is the be all and end all of it, well that's in motion all the time. The awakening is shared.

I do appreciate and understand the tale of Mae Chee, my granny sat me at her knee as a child and shared many of her wisdoms that I had to grow into / experience, to appreciate. Through my own choices and fears and distortions of both religions and sciences (and life), I turned away from her wisdoms and 'it' the awarenesses. The nde sort of brought me back to it, but in a very human and funny (Scarlett O'Hara - I can't think of this now, I'll think about it tomorrow) sort of a way. Then yes in the face of indisputable truth and living proof of the accuracy of the information available butting up against the denial of it, I turned back towards it, and did so in the care of 'elders'. I took maybe five or six years answering my own perceptual questions and learning to balance, in acceptance of both the knowing and the unknowing, both the willing and the unwilling, both the blindness and the seeing, across a myriad of perspectives etc

Where I am now, is here.

In some ways I have been watching for this 'discovery' in science because my Granny told me it would be in the time for me. I haven't been waiting for me to use and learn and employ it, I've been waiting for others to stop fearing those that can and do, based on the false perceptions of both religions and sciences. Until they uncover the falsenesses of their 'bounding' life, they will not be able to comprehend, or utilise, the boundlessness of it.

Fey as my folks call 'this', merely means 'fenceless'.

In this discovery, one of the fences previously blinding folks from what was beyond it, has just fallen over :D
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:33 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:I cannot see 'full enlightenment' as an individual pursuit,


I would like you to reflect on the Ego(what is it?) in relation to this fenceless world.

Past lives, evolution, These thoughts you are so vividly experiencing require liberation.

It is not important that science acknowledges and bridges this gap, it is important that you do.

I hope this does not come off a preachy, I wish I had some more time to respond this morning.

There is "something" that the hereafter is missing or overlooking.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:13 am

I'm happy to wait until you do have time Fore :D

I don't really understand the context / level of your question Ego (what is it?) so I'd be shotgunning to answer it.

In terms of how do I accept / acknowledge etc Ego's existence and its 'purpose', on/in the deeper level of awareness the answer for me is that it's part of what is contained and cloaked within the 'physical' lower vibrational energies in motion that allow us to experience individuation in experience. Kind of no different to skin and bones and all that stuff is. If folks take their skin and bones to be who they really are they are more likely to concentrate their sense of 'self' in the physical, bounded by their skin and bones and physical experiences.

Awareness of 'more' falls kind of within the does / doesn't matter for 'self', and does/doesn't matter for the all.
Kind of like the 'difference' when you first read A New Earth and said
From the first page I knew that this was the truth(God) I had been shielded from experiencing. Completion of this book gave me the understanding of how the ego functions, it also gave God back to me in a way I could accept.

My 'awareness' if you like embraces the taking away of a 'shield' that has long hidden the truth in terms of brain activity.

It is not important that science acknowledges and bridges this gap, it is important that you do.

Again at what 'level'? Surrounded by my own 'folk' there is no gap :wink: In and of my own experiences there isn't either, there are 'nuances' and levels of awareness, but the 'gap' is more in relation to others who don't even realise there is a 'gap' in our understandings.

It's kind of more like a different language creating confusions in meaning and intention, and yet absolutely based in the difference in premise of what it is to be human.

I don't mean that to sound as if I do not absolutely receive and fall into your wisdom in the energy of generosity and gratitude, I do and it is absolutely knowingly sage and sound and just and yum, thank you, I have taken it into me.
And yes it has been and is a journey, bridging and bridged in acceptance of our separatedness in physical form providing the opportunities in experience, and, acceptance of the 'wider' - not about 'me' - evolving by all our experiences. I like the 'feel' of the word 'bridge' in this context, I tend/ed to think of it as 'straddling'.
Last edited by smiileyjen101 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:16 am

:idea: The 'thing' of this new discovery - this doorway that has been opened, is that it may well allow things to be 'bridged' rather than 'straddled' :D (thanks for the inspiration Fore!!)


I've highlighted the 'important' parts for me in science realising just in this passage about it... I could only hazard a guess at what it is that they are realising. Central is the notion that intelligence and consciousness is generated by the parts of the brain that separate us from other species and 'make us human', and all of the subjective prescriptions for the lives of others and on the lives and capacities of other species etc have in recent history been based on these knowledges that will now have to be relooked at, having been 'shielded' all this time and applied as an imposition on others.

Using anesthetic drugs, the researchers recreated the patient's state in cats. When the cats reached the flat-line coma stage, the researchers increased the anesthetic's dose, and observed brain activity re-emerging in cats.

It is still unclear how the activity in neurons in the hippocampus can spread throughout the brain, the researcher said. One possible scenario is that silencing the brain even more may ease the control over neurons in the hippocampus that other brain areas normally maintain.

"The more the brain is unconscious, the less this activity is disturbed," Amzica said. The activity in the hippocampus then has more potential to become strong enough to spread into other areas, he said.


In the topic discussing Dr Eben Alexander's book Proof of Heaven
I made this observation in 'weighing' up the presented evidence
We have to accept on the weight of evidence that our brains, in some states are able to access eternal 'now-oneness' (eternal as in not confined in notions of beginning, middle and end - past present and future), and interpret all perspectives of a 'thing' without bias - instantly. When I used to hear that humans only use 10% of their brain capacity I used to wonder what on earth the other 90% was doing :wink:

What if instead of the brain being 'diminished' in capacity, it is 'heightened' in capacity? A 'niggle' in Dr Alexander's telling is his lack of testing the theory of the properties and abilities of the 'lower' functions of the brain when the higher 'human' properties are switched off (as his were) or compromised as many others are in validated reports of this experience.


I don't know if what has been 'discovered' in this Nu Complexes state will embrace this or not. No doubt, it is all unfolding as it should and yes/no it does/does not matter, and yes/no the awareness of it unfolding does/does not matter. And I can only bridge these aspects with/through the wisdom of my own experiencing - experiencing thus far 'outside' of what science accepted as possible, and 'outside' what religions (for the most part) 'allow for' / accept', in the normal human experience.

And yes, that doesn't stop 'little me' being 'overwhelmed' by it, and 'big me' grinning like an idiot, if that makes sense.
Am I aware that little me & my ego are 'preferencing' things about it, absolutely!! Oh what joy it will be 'when/if' we realise/accept we don't need EEG's (at the very least of my joys!!) and never actually did!! - except to bring us to the realisation that we actually didn't (mwhahaha!!)
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:34 am

TD said: Whether science acknowledges this or that, it will be what it be. Yes, it would be amazing if the field can move forward in some areas previously deemed false, inappropriate or even "ridiculous". Yet there is a nagging sense that in hoping or desiring that science do move forward, it is like giving away one's authority, waiting for science's authentication to validate one's experiences.


In bridging / straddling dimensions and perspectives it may look as if we (the all) abdicate our knowledge, or our 'power', we don't/didn't, we were being it all the time. We merely allow things to unfold as they are, aware that they ARE unfolding, if that makes sense.

So yes, in a sense it is giving up / giving away one's authority, and knowing that's okay too, the 'authority' is just another false cloak of individuation :D

I wonder if what you are feeling in the 'nagging' sense, is agitation 'between' the process and the content of what you've just said?
Where ET has helped me enormously in this 'nagging' is while I have no attachment to the process or the outcome I am aware of the process and the unlimited potentiality of it - and my 'feel' on it is more along the lines of acceptance (of what was and what has passed and brought us to this point), enjoyment - singing the praises, of the pouring love into and letting go of the previous resistances, and enthusiasm that this particular arrow is flowing along this particular path in its journey.

When one cracks open an egg there is first resistance, then cracking, which brings relief to the tension of resistance, then the pouring out of the contents. No matter how many eggs you crack, there are always more eggs to crack :wink: That doesn't make the cracking of any particular egg any more or less 'important' to the omelette., even if it seems so to the individual eggs.


**** Edit: Sorry TD, did you delete your post, or did I just dream it? hahaha!
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby TemporalDissonance » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:08 am

smilley, I did delete the post as I saw you had already posted a few responses which I hadn't read before posting mine and noticed you touched on similar sentiments I was highlighting. :)

smiileyjen101 wrote:So yes, in a sense it is giving up / giving away one's authority, and knowing that's okay too, the 'authority' is just another false cloak of individuation :D

I wonder if what you are feeling in the 'nagging' sense, is agitation 'between' the process and the content of what you've just said?
Where ET has helped me enormously in this 'nagging' is while I have no attachment to the process or the outcome I am aware of the process and the unlimited potentiality of it - and my 'feel' on it is more along the lines of acceptance (of what was and what has passed and brought us to this point), enjoyment - singing the praises, of the pouring love into and letting go of the previous resistances, and enthusiasm that this particular arrow is flowing along this particular path in its journey.

When one cracks open an egg there is first resistance, then cracking, which brings relief to the tension of resistance, then the pouring out of the contents. No matter how many eggs you crack, there are always more eggs to crack :wink: That doesn't make the cracking of any particular egg any more or less 'important' to the omelette., even if it seems so to the individual eggs.


HAha there are always more eggs to crack yes. :) Perhaps, my "nagging" has to do with the knowing that "science" is an illusion and construction itself. It is great at what it does and have done many great things for humanity. But it isn't as "solid" or "correct" or "right" as what many of us have led to believe, including myself. It isn't a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" situation either but an understanding that perhaps, even with such a discovery as Nu Complexes, science may not have that catalyst it needs or will to venture into an area that will shine light in the undiscovered yet. Perhaps, I am taking a "is that so?" approach like the Zen monk with the baby story. Only time will tell. Who knows, this may be the seed it needs. :)

I do wonder though, despite the scientists' reassurance that past "flatlined" patients are "dead", how are they so sure now? :)
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:31 am

TD said: I do wonder though, despite the scientists' reassurance that past "flatlined" patients are "dead", how are they so sure now? :)



Image
mwhahaha!!

Sorry :oops:

Yep, we are cracking eggs all over the joint!!

TD said: Perhaps, I am taking a "is that so?" approach like the Zen monk with the baby story.

Sure, I can appreciate that, and I have to 'limit' my enthusiasm in the myriad of 'potentials' of it. For me it is just one door that was closed, that is now blown wide open that 'science' will be able to peek its head through with less fear of / and condemnation.

Whether or not, or what or not, others make of it, absolutely it will be just a journey of discoveries, and perspectives of it.

The 'thing' for me though is that the door now IS open in 'scientific' terms and many such questions - like yours above - will now be asked, and in the asking, answered. There is no thing known that we have not first imagined, questioned and answered.

Prior to that door being opened, the basis of scientific research - the premise - if you like, could not query or question that which it had no 'acceptance' of in terms of what is life, what is death etc. Yes sure for some it was a fear thing keeping the door shut, but for many it was not fear, but adherence to their own criteria of 'dependable' evidence of things.

For me that and many other doors already ARE open, it just helps in terms of communicating and exploring 'stuff' on the shared platforms of life - experience, science, religions etc

eg: we no longer have to go back as far as 'the earth was thought to be flat, until it was discovered that it wasn't', and that sort of 'stuff'. Until we found something that required the 'n' of the Greek alphabet to name it scientifically, we had no idea we ever would, or what it would be, if that makes sense.

In terms of the flatliners and whether their bodies were dead or not, it only relatively does/does not matter, if that makes sense, and by the expression of your awakenedness, encompassing the awarenesses of the does/does not matter -
has to do with the knowing that "science" is an illusion and construction itself. It is great at what it does and have done many great things for humanity. But it isn't as "solid" or "correct" or "right" as what many of us have led to believe, including myself. It isn't a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" situation either but an understanding that perhaps, even with such a discovery as Nu Complexes, science may not have that catalyst it needs or will to venture into an area that will shine light in the undiscovered yet.
.
Yep! and that's okay too.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:16 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:I don't really understand the context / level of your question Ego (what is it?) so I'd be shotgunning to answer it.


In the beginning there was God/Nibbana/awareness/presence, many words to describe the indescribable. God, all seeing, all knowing, desired to experience "its self" but like an eye looking out cannot see or know the eye, the universe was created.
Layer upon layer of darkness began to cover God, and then God said let there be light, the evolution of form in the simple vibration of a light wave was created. Layers upon layers of light began to cover God, light evolved into minerals, more layers, minerals evolved into vegetation, more layers, vegetation evolved into insects/animals, more layers. Finally, evolution created a human being with this delicate balance of pain and pleasure.

Now you think as many others do, I am a human being, but are you?

There are those of us who's heads are in the clouds to much joy and pleasure dancing with form to begin to practice, and there are those in deep states of pain and depression, to much aversion towards form to practice. We are continuously being reborn trillions of times a second (layers upon layers) it is extremely rare to be reborn as a human being with this delicate balance that enables one to practice to end the cycle of rebirth.

Human being is the only being that has the ability to look within, to know thyself. Human being can look back through time and cut through the countless layers, upon layers of our past conditions and experience the truth of ones being, the truth of God.

We are not meant to go look for a particular experience of past forms, we observe them if they arise in our reality and accept them, make peace with them, let go of them. Choiceless observation.

“"Whatever you accept you go beyond. That's a miracle. If you fight it, you're stuck with it" ”
—Eckhart Tolle

When God is found one can then recognise God within. God is not a light being, or any vibrational formation in existence that science has yet to accept exist. NDE's seem to allow those who experience them to experience form in a past state akin to light vibrations(very addictive and can have long lasting pleasant effects) but this is not God, the light from God is not God.

Ego(self) is an accumulation of our past stock of layers of existence, a highly evolved mirror for God to look deeply into and see a reflection. When you observe the self who do you really think is looking?
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Onceler » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:51 pm

Fore,

You sound certain about what you are saying. I'm curious about how you know this.....trust, experience, faith?

Speaking for myself, the older I get, the less certain I am about anything.....if I were to follow this trajectory, I can see a time in the not too distant future where I will be certain of nothing, or not much.....and not be the worse for it. In fact, there seems to be an inverse relationship with my certainty and my satisfaction with life.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:55 am

Onceler wrote:Fore,

You sound certain about what you are saying. I'm curious about how you know this.....trust, experience, faith?



I'm God silly :D
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Onceler » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:16 am

Haw! Works for me!
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