Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:54 am

Onceler said:
Speaking for myself, the older I get, the less certain I am about anything.....if I were to follow this trajectory, I can see a time in the not too distant future where I will be certain of nothing, or not much.....and not be the worse for it. In fact, there seems to be an inverse relationship with my certainty and my satisfaction with life.

I appreciate those lines in the 'human' part of being. Having (experiencing) perspectives from different angles and sources what is there to be 'dis-satisfied' with?

I too am curious about your Creation story Fore - there are many of them - versions etc and I have no issue with any of them. I can't say I stop and subscribe to any of them. (David Suzuki's book Wisdom of the Elders details many interesting ones from around the globe).

Fore said: There are those of us who's heads are in the clouds to much joy and pleasure dancing with form to begin to practice, and there are those in deep states of pain and depression, to much aversion towards form to practice.


Practice what?
Being human?
or
Being?

Being (for me) needs no practice, it's whatever/however being is.

Fore said: Human being is the only being that has the ability to look within, to know thyself. Human being can look back through time and cut through the countless layers, upon layers of our past conditions and experience the truth of ones being, the truth of God.

See now, who says?

Whose 'perspective' of the conditions and capacities of 'human' ness are holding this as if separate to all creation?
And who/what is judging according to their knowledge - not right or wrong but by experiential delineating both what it is and is not capable of, and in a broad sweep of its own arrogance what other beings are and are not capable of?
Time is a relative human-perspective construct.
And one only knows oneself in relation to excising all that it does not claim to be part of itself.

In terms of ability to separate layers and time - one can if one chooses to, absolutely, but if one is being without holding onto separating & separate perspectives then being collapses time and layers - in equilibrium.

When God is found one can then recognise God within.

ummm would you agree then that 'God' was never lost :? Layers of perception cloak the perfection of creation. The construct of time & layers & perspectives cloak 'god' (imho)

God is not a light being, or any vibrational formation in existence that science has yet to accept exist.

hmmm would it be fair to say that 'god' is existence - all vibrational form and formless energy eternal?

NDE's seem to allow those who experience them to experience form in a past state akin to light vibrations(very addictive and can have long lasting pleasant effects) but this is not God, the light from God is not God.

NDE in my experience collapsed past/present/future into equilibrium - all knowledge of experience, with less delineation of experiential perspective. That there is in many cases 'light' and 'lightness' for me is just the absence of cloaking 'what is'. The energy vibration is also in equilibrium - with far more subtle awareness of what is feeding into/out of creation in eternal collapsed motion.

I didn't see/feel/know the 'light' as 'god', in fact the notion of 'god' as I had been taught to view 'him' (separate from/to and more mighty and higher than) collapsed in/with the equilibrium. To put this in 'acceptable' language and have it understood in pure intention is difficult. I have at times (and 'irked' at the not this really) referred to 'heaven' but only in the sense of directing attention to that which would be understood - as in not 'earth-bound', as in not 'hell' - but 'heaven' is also a perceptual construct made by perspective and judgement holding onto a 'thing'.

I did however think of the light equilibrium as 'home', in a way that I also would struggle to express. Home in the relative sense encompasses all that you 'know' it denotes 'family', it denotes ancestry and progeny and all that you know and hold dear (love) all that is well in the fullness of 'time', the safe haven of experience from which we venture from and return to;

'home' in the light sense is this across all experience of all eternity in equilibrium - no exceptions, no exaltations, no 'mistakes', no fear through cloaked unawarenesses.

In the relative sense 'home' think how your dirt is okay, think how your loved ones' mistakes are more understood, more okay and more just learning, just experiencing; now think how 'others' dirt is not 'as okay', think how others' mistakes in the absence of understanding the experience / perspective is judged not 'as okay' as your own. In the big 'home' :lol: and yes I realise that that is probably even worse a labelling than 'heaven' ... (hang on better check the acceptable understandings of 'heaven' - maybe it's already been defined in a way I can share... - hahaha, that's funny - one synonym is listed as 'the great unknown' - nope the great all-known (sigh).

The notion of it being addictive.. .yes and no. It at once (for me) makes precious life in separation and appreciating the cloaking and the uncloaking in perspectives and at another level that all of it (combined / collapsed) is and is not important.

As I said earlier I don't need science to catch up, or undo might be more 'accurate', science and religion itself is unravelling itself of the cloaking it laid upon itself. And watching that unfolding is just kind of lovely - not judging just curiously and acceptingly observing. No different to a flower budding and blooming. No different to a child or a puppy or a lamb discovering itself, then losing itself then discovering itself all again and again and again and the me in all of them and the all of them in me being 'acknowledged' - in a 'namaste' sort of way, not imposing or limiting, nor embracing in order to hold or hold on to - just ... is.


We are continuously being reborn trillions of times a second (layers upon layers) it is extremely rare to be reborn as a human being with this delicate balance that enables one to practice to end the cycle of rebirth.

What then would you make of the notion that there is no end, there is no beginning? And no thing to 'practice'?

Now you think as many others do, I am a human being, but are you?

I think more I am BEing human. And I'm happy having my head in the clouds and my feet on the ground and my awareness wherever it is - I embrace being energy in form.

Thank you Fore, for allowing the expression of it.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:06 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:Practice what?
Being human?
or
Being?

Purification of the mind.


smiileyjen101 wrote:
Fore said: Human being is the only being that has the ability to look within, to know thyself. Human being can look back through time and cut through the countless layers, upon layers of our past conditions and experience the truth of ones being, the truth of God.

See now, who says?


I DO!! (claps of thunder in the background)


When God is found one can then recognise God within.

smiileyjen101 wrote:ummm would you agree then that 'God' was never lost :? Layers of perception cloak the perfection of creation. The construct of time & layers & perspectives cloak 'god' (imho)


Layers of ignorance shield God.

God is not a light being, or any vibrational formation in existence that science has yet to accept exist.

smiileyjen101 wrote: hmmm would it be fair to say that 'god' is existence - all vibrational form and formless energy eternal?

God is existence, but form and energy are impermanent not eternal, otherwise I would buy some energy and run my car forever.
smiileyjen101 wrote:
NDE in my experience collapsed past/present/future into equilibrium - all knowledge of experience, with less delineation of experiential perspective. That there is in many cases 'light' and 'lightness' for me is just the absence of cloaking 'what is'. The energy vibration is also in equilibrium - with far more subtle awareness of what is feeding into/out of creation in eternal collapsed motion.


Bottom line in NDE's all 6 senses are functional.

smiileyjen101 wrote: The notion of it being addictive.. .yes and no. It at once (for me) makes precious life in separation and appreciating the cloaking and the uncloaking in perspectives and at another level that all of it (combined / collapsed) is and is not important.


I'm not judging you Jen, I just wanted to point out the potential dangers of this, and that one could get lost for a very long time playing games with form.
smiileyjen101 wrote:
As I said earlier I don't need science to catch up, or undo might be more 'accurate', science and religion itself is unravelling itself of the cloaking it laid upon itself. And watching that unfolding is just kind of lovely


I am enjoying the unravelling also, nicely put.

smiileyjen101 wrote: What then would you make of the notion that there is no end, there is no beginning? And no thing to 'practice'?

Real peace and happyness

smiileyjen101 wrote: I think more I am BEing human. And I'm happy having my head in the clouds and my feet on the ground and my awareness wherever it is - I embrace being energy in form.

Thank you Fore, for allowing the expression of it.


Jen, you are truly an angel!
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:37 am

There's a couple of things that we're seeing 'different' sides of stuff here, and that's okay too. In terms of the uncloaking being discovered in the Nu Complexes experience, it is still within scientific constraints, and that's okay too.

The 'linking' in 'content' is not that I think it will be interpreted or mean anything in terms of nde etc, just an uncloaking of a previously held mis- take as to what constitutes 'human', what the capacity of the brain is, and what that means in terms of our being in the world, and our potential, or not. And maybe what we then think / are prepared to learn about the capacity of other species we share this existence with, and even less likely maybe .... more.

What I see of it is the potential in the here and now - if we choose to apply it - not the state detailed, but the knowledge that there are other states outside of our scientific acceptance.

The pathway in processing this as an important discovery / uncloaking - for me - is at the bump-into crossroads of science's understanding of capacity, and my own awareness and experience of capacity. The linking in this very minute instance is ... I'm not scientific so I'll just share where my mind went in linking... (and I don't have any scientific 'answers' or questions either...) I'm just noticing some 'pathways' - and cloaks along the way.

- the patient that this event happened to/with was put into a coma to flat line + given anti epileptic fit medication, which they've replicated in the cat experiments as being the 'combination' that brought brain activity to this beyond flat line state as recorded by EEG.

- Dr Eben Alexander was already in a coma - from bacterial meningitis and his brain severely affected, and he was occasionally fitting so was given anti epileptic fit medication to stop his body from having potentially (physically) harmful seizures. His EEG readings indicated his brain activity could not have 'supported' his experiential recall of what was happening in his 'nde' awareness state. He, as a neuroscientist determined that neuroscience needed to widen its 'view' of brain capacity, and what that means in relation to consciousness. He did so based on knowing that his neurological knowledge could not comprehend or support his experience. It never is that the experience is not real, or not happening, it's that science needs to widen its view to encompass the things that science in modern times agreed not to include - (Einstein's 'freaky physics' - not even sure if I am saying that right)

- the meditating monks and their EEG readings of strong gamma waves etc - oneness IS a frequency of experience ( :idea: :!: )
Lutz asked (monk) Ricard to meditate on "unconditional loving-kindness and compassion." He immediately noticed powerful gamma activity - brain waves oscillating at roughly 40 cycles per second -�indicating intensely focused thought. Gamma waves are usually weak and difficult to see. Those emanating from Ricard were easily visible, even in the raw EEG output. Moreover, oscillations from various parts of the cortex were synchronized - a phenomenon that sometimes occurs in patients under anesthesia. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.02/dalai.html


- previous and current EEG and electro magnetic results in terms of healing - hands on, energy and remote showing significant differences to 'normal' in the willing and knowing and conscious application of those energies flowing openly and targeted-ly.

The thing is we don't all run around with EEG's attached to our scalps :wink: so when something happens spontaneously we only have the experience of it, and if science doesn't accept the premise of the possibility of 'stuff' then there is no way to share the 'evidence' that disputes their cloaked and selective acceptance of 'what is'.

End of 'theory' musing. Below is ' personal experience musing' :wink:
Last edited by smiileyjen101 on Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:12 am

My interest / curiosity / hopefulness in this is not actually from my nde, but in connective oneness awareness that I can take myself into knowingly, or fall into 'accidentally' in extreme energetic flows.

And I wonder if this Nu Complexes has any bearing in understanding that, or if it goes in the opposite direction.

I 'know' the uninsulated, or less insulated frequency/state and can go into it at will. I recognise for instance (mostly, sometimes it overwhelms too quickly) what is 'mine' in physicality and what is not 'mine' but I'm experiencing it from/in the wider field of energy.

It can be as simple as recognising the onset - pre visible/knowable symptoms - of someone's blood sugar level falling rapidly, but with enough time to ready a comfortable seat and assistance when she will fall in the next few seconds, knowing someone's fear affecting their reactions / responses, feeling the taste/smell - metallic ick of someone else's brain firings in epileptic - whatever that is, and again being ready to attend, but it can also be being rushed to hospital as a teen, for my boyfriend's burst appendix - I didn't know that was possible then, now I do, now I 'check' is this mine -but regardless of whether it is 'mine' or not I can accept that I am / can experience the effects of it.

It may be opening to the answer when asked: 'where is Jean?' --- oh she's lying on her kitchen floor, having had a brain aneurysm - the truth is not cloaked. We in degrees insulate and cloak it.

This is how energy healers 'diagnose', and in return flow of energy this is how they heal. All energy - all experience is energy in motion. Just as electrical energy will flow through open pathways unless there is insulation or a 'break', a circuit breaker, it does flow eternally back to source and out again. So for me sometimes, if I'm open or have a 'link' it can and does occur like someone grabbing onto a live electrical wire and being a part of the conducting and flow of it. If science and medicine in particular could accept that, well life would just be so much easier.

Now that I do know that it can be that though, I sound like a mad woman in clinical / emergency room situations when with full 'visibility' and acceptance of the experiencing of the symptoms, I say, 'it's okay, just treat the symptoms, the cause isn't mine/me'. There is no way 'modern medicine' can accept that within its careful fearful theoretical application of 'medicine' because of the restrictions of what science will accept.

What I need in those situations is a circuit breaker, or insulation, and that may be to correct the initiating cause in another, or insulate me from it. In the case of my bf's burst appendix I was fine, if groggy after they'd removed his appendix. Removing 'mine' would have done me no good.

With more recent studies and awareness flowing into science/medicine the last time an extreme event of this nature happened I thought I would try being just absolutely honest and authentic - and failed miserably in the eyes of those treating me.

It was amid experiencing and expressing the full and OMG! painful effects of someone dear having a third of their stomach cut out - in this event I didn't know that was/would be happening at this time, had been 'open' to them in their recent experiencing of a serious illness, and was just sitting on my couch reading the paper and WHAM!!! holy crap!!! Can you imagine where the brain goes when you're sitting on the couch reading a paper and experiencing having stomach surgery :lol:

They were anaesthetised, but I wasn't and I hadn't 'strengthened' any cloak of separation/ insulation, as I would have had I known this was happening. I was just experiencing it raw, and contemplating the possibility that it (whatever it was) was killing me!

I did take time to 'check' - is this a heart attack? no, it's in my gut? Holy crap waves of acute agony!! Is this a stroke - the wooziness of it the omg 'alert stations' of every biological part of me freaking out? No, it's ... wtf is it? After trying to disengage from it myself, laying down and trying to breathe above it, rise above it, it was too strong in holding me, I couldn't disengage - I was the idiot holding onto a 240,000 volt flow! I broke down and cried out for help, I could not let go on my own. My vitals were way out of whack in response. I'd gone through my pain threshold in a big way.

Ridiculously, but not, I insisted my partner first call both my mother and my daughter to 'check' that they were okay, that it wasn't them, before I let him call the paramedics and got rushed to the hospital. They first did send me through cardiac, (negative), then abdo emergency teams (negative). I had a few 'nil result' tests come back before I also 'fully' accepted it really wasn't 'mine', that there was no 'within me clinical reasoning' that could be applied. But by that time medicos are focussed on 'me' and can't factor this in, within their knowledge, capacity and willingness...(so I'm kind of screwed/stuck with it.)

If we accept our potential this would be far more simple. It would be on my file as it really is - not as it is allowed to be - you have no idea how many 'symptoms presenting = this, query this - negative' stuff I have on my files that I can absolutely explain, but medicine / science is unwilling to allow it to be there in their hallowed, cloaked 'domain'. I spent longer in hospital being subjected to 'tests' for my bf's burst appendix than he did having it removed!!!

I also know I've been complicit in this. A while back I was having 'ice pick' headaches and wanted to check that it wasn't epilepsy (petit mal). The neurologist was going through my history and the clinical event that surrounded my nde (45 minutes of apnoea, spontaneous breathing recovery & even longer unexplained prolonged comatose state with spontaneous recovery), symptoms of this - test this - this negative all over the place.

But it kind of gets a neuro's attention :wink: so he asked me about it. I detailed the 'clinical / scientifically accepted' version that yes they 'had thought' that it had been a reaction to Scoline, but no, tests for Scoline reaction returned normal' - you have no idea how 'irky' it is to have to regurgitate that bullcrap within the cloaks of ignorance - but you do or it all goes to judgemental crap, which is worse. So he read a little more, raised his eyebrow but didn't even look at me while saying 'So, how did they explain it then?'

Honesty, compassion, brevity, openness, a little hopefulness without pushing him through a door if he didn't want to go through it... I steeled my gaze, opened my heart and said 'They,.. didn't'. He turned and looked at me - it was one of those moments where he felt like he would pee his pants - one of those absolute opportunities - what I 'felt' him considering in his response - this could be big vs he was late in his career, this might be a can of worms... shut down. He just nodded, said 'oh' ...when he knew he could have said - how did/do you explain it.... whole other world.

We can't drag the cloaks off of things, we can't drag folks into awareness, accepting that is also part of the journey.

When the parameters of what science would and would not accept into the field of what could be studied, they knew they were leaving a heap of stuff out. It's never been that this stuff wasn't here or wasn't real, it was just considered too tricky to define. The discussions between Jung & Freud (in the movie A Dangerous Method (2011) was like an exploding light bulb for me. Absolutely exploding - they knew it was there all the time, they just didn't know how to frame it without losing their 'credibility' within the confines of 'science'.

I went on to have an EEG to check for petit mal or any other 'abnormal' brain activity. I was doing everything the technician asked of me - because I did want to check about the source of the ice pick headaches - but I also happened upon the idea that I could maybe 'play' in the light state and see if that had any impact on the EEG - but didn't want the two to get confused.

I waited until the technician told me we only had five minutes more to go, and that everything was 'looking fine', and I went into open - oneness - white light beyond meditation frequency, up through the layers, and held it until the tech told me it was over. When I went back for the report the neuro was looking through my results - the lined thingy - just saying 'yes this is fine... yes, no problem... said there's no indication of epilepsy at all, as he scrolled through the length of it. Then just at the end (where I'd started 'playing') he started saying 'hmm, this is unusual... ' It felt like he didn't even have the questions for it. Just as he 'could have asked' about the nde, but didn't previously, I could have shared 'what' it was correlating to, and didn't. He again stated that I didn't have any epilepsy or abnormalities but because of this 'unusual' thing at the end he wanted me to have an mri - just to be sure. The mri came back 'perfectly normal' - but only because I behaved :wink:

While we live in this confined and role-playing version of our potential we all abdicate our .... (what?)

In the last 'big' shared but not accepted/understood by 'medicos' event I experienced / got accidentally caught up in, once I realised it I did tell them - it's okay, it's not 'mine', just treat the symptoms - the pain was gawd-awful and I have a really really high pain threshold. Even though I didn't at that time know what/whose it was, I knew it was not symptoms of something happening in my body, I was just feeling it, linked into the energy of it - imagine the 'screaming' and reaction, if you will, of all those neurons and everything being split apart from their biological place, cut into, brought into the cold atmosphere of an operating theatre - this energy is at cellular level experiencing. I tried to explain through sharing other experiences, yes it/they are/can be extreme, - only to be met with 'big imagination' and more testing to find things that were not and never were occurring in my body at the cellular level - they were occurring to someone else's body in another hospital in another part of the city and they were blissfully unaware of the pain and 'upset' of it because they were totally anaesthetised!!

In Scotland medicos do take 'fey' - oneness, into account - when my uncle was rushed to hospital with acute stomach pains that came and went, after a few clinical tests came back negative they actually asked him if his wife was pregnant - yes - near birth? - yes.. and called the maternity hospital only to find her there in labour, they gave him pain medication and sent him over to be with his wife, laughing while explaining to him that he was having/feeling/experiencing her labour. He has a mighty appreciation of women and birth :wink:

It's not just a selfish 'wish it were different'. I recognise and feel the pain of ignorance and arrogance for the other participants, reinforcing fear, reinforcing darkness, reinforcing separateness and fear of oneness. But, ironically, I can't tell them that - it would only make them fear me & their own potential more.

I see the possibilities of it in misunderstanding and misdiagnosis and mistreatment of all manner of experiences. Especially those that science and medicine pretend they understand as confined within limits of their imposing. They really cannot effectively diagnose and treat if they are cloaking these levels of energy interacting with the human form.

So this 'new level', 'new layer' just points to the fact that layers / levels outside of their previous accepted understanding are real, do exist. It's like when my daughter was diagnosed (on my instinct and observations and eventual recognition of variance of blood sugar level energy activity) we borrowed a friend's blood sugar monitor and it just registered 'HI' - off the scale of the capacity of the monitor to measure (even though we didn't know exactly what HI meant - on calling the hospital they said - it means get her here NOW!!!). With more sophisticated and arterial blood testing it could be recognised that she was waaaayyyy over 'normal' - by more than six times over normal, so then we could address it accurately within the relationship of insulin to sugar and seek to bring balance and harmony.

It does/doesn't matter, but it does/doesn't matter in terms of quality of life on an individual level, and in acceptance or resistance to what is on a universal level.

Again, what they do with it... :?:
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:17 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote: oneness IS a frequency of experience ( :idea: :!: )

No "it" is not. You are describing a past life.

The observer(awareness) of experience is eternal oneness.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:00 am

Okay so we maybe could share the nuances of perspective to increase clarity of understanding.

Fore said: The observer(awareness) of experience is eternal oneness.

In which case there is no need to 'purify the mind'. :?:
So why then advocate the 'practices' of purification of the mind, instead of being knowingly, willingly within relative capacity? Bridging, or straddling the awareness and the physical experiences.


smiileyjen101 wrote:
oneness IS a frequency of experience ( :idea: :!: )

Fore said: No "it" is not. You are describing a past life.

I said that in relation to the 'measuring' studies on the brain workings of monks meditating at a level of unconditional love and compassion, as noted in that study to fire and ignite and strengthen parts of the brain activity through which energy flows in a higher capacity than 'normal'. It's measurable in contrasts in brain / energy frequency. (albeit still funnelled & insulated and stepped down to suit).

I was illustrating it as an example of when science opens to possibilities it can (sometimes) have verifiable and significant 'results' that open doors in awareness without fear.

I would ask, if you are willing and as much as you are capable, to try to share your perspective, your experience of oneness whilst in form, or unrestrained by form if you have that experience knowingly.

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Fore said: Human being is the only being that has the ability to look within, to know thyself. Human being can look back through time and cut through the countless layers, upon layers of our past conditions and experience the truth of ones being, the truth of God.

See now, who says?

Fore said: I DO!! (claps of thunder in the background)


While I laughed at the thunder claps (they don't scare me :wink: ) the short, sharp, claim to authority of the separation of human experience being of god and other species / experience not being of, in and in awareness is, feels, forgive me pious and over-reaching of the kind sit down, shut up and just accept what I say, because I said so. And not just as an angel but as one who goes where many fear to tread - aka, just a very naughty little girl, I'm still likely to say - on what basis, on what proof, on what authority that you would be able to share?

Fore said: Layers of ignorance shield God.

Layers of arrogance project god as something more than everything in equilibrium. (and I mean arrogance as in asserting one view whilst dismissing others)


smiileyjen101 wrote:
hmmm would it be fair to say that 'god' is existence - all vibrational form and formless energy eternal?

Fore said: God is existence, but form and energy are impermanent not eternal, otherwise I would buy some energy and run my car forever.

That's interesting.
I'm not quite sure how to bridge that... if... means to an end in form.... in one sense yes you could, it would only mean regulating (stepping down and conversion), creating the conducting flow paths to 'employ' the energies, which is exactly what happens in form, that is already how you do run your car. That materialism has created a user pays system in the processing... just is. That we 'believe' that we need a car is a whole other level of stepping down our and everything's capacities.

But absolutely and not just in oil, or just to power cars, it's the same for powering 'life forms' of all varieties and 'powering' all experiences - we know this stepping down and separating into elements is part of the veiled 'game' created in form. (?)

In terms of the impermanence of everything, absolutely I agree, but it's not that the form or the energy disappears or dissipates, it's just that it changes form - it's infinite in capacity / potential and eternal in the sense of no beginning, no end. Eternal need not only be viewed in a linear sense.
smiileyjen101 wrote:
What then would you make of the notion that there is no end, there is no beginning? And no thing to 'practice'?

In your own words with acceptance of this there is
Real peace and happyness


There can - with awareness and acceptance of both the impermanent and the eternal aspects of experience in form be this playing in form and real peace and happiness simultaneously in awareness; and not being either lost nor found, for how can one ever be lost unless they think it so and experience that as energy in motion flowing back to its source?

There is no 'danger', there is only the perception of the experience of it in separated form.

I am an angel in the sense that I know I am both form and formless expression and that no thing can ever truly harm or injure, and at the same time I acknowledge the perceptions of that in form and how very scary that can feel.

Straddling... bridging.

I will only be playing in 'this form' for as long as the energy and the form are connecting / connected.

In terms of those who 'witness' or who participate in this dance of energies in their own connection and form, I know now, from the nde experience, how limitless the potentials are in either flowing freely in love, or in constricting in fear along the spiderweb connections.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby Fore » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:18 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:Okay so we maybe could share the nuances of perspective to increase clarity of understanding.

Fore said: The observer(awareness) of experience is eternal oneness.

In which case there is no need to 'purify the mind'. :?:
So why then advocate the 'practices' of purification of the mind, instead of being knowingly, willingly within relative capacity? Bridging, or straddling the awareness and the physical experiences.

Removing the veils of ignorance(purification of the mind) allows one to realize this awareness, just this awareness, free from the 6 senses. Without this realization of just awareness, one is experiencing reality with the concept of permanent self.


smiileyjen101 wrote:
if you are willing and as much as you are capable, to try to share your perspective, your experience of oneness whilst in form, or unrestrained by form if you have that experience knowingly.


Next time you have a NDE, die in it. I am not comfortable or capable of explaining what comes next.
smiileyjen101 wrote:

While I laughed at the thunder claps (they don't scare me :wink: ) the short, sharp, claim to authority of the separation of human experience being of god and other species / experience not being of, in and in awareness is, feels, forgive me pious and over-reaching of the kind sit down, shut up and just accept what I say, because I said so. And not just as an angel but as one who goes where many fear to tread - aka, just a very naughty little girl, I'm still likely to say - on what basis, on what proof, on what authority that you would be able to share?

As I said Jen, there is further to go down the rabbit hole. Perhaps in time I will share this with you in private as best I can. I really do feel from reading your posts that you are a trusting caring wonderful human being. An angel (I meant this). All I can ask is if you have a stitch of doubt about what God "is"? and if you do, work to realize this.

Then begin the second path....
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby runstrails » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:48 am

Hi,
I've not read the thread but Jen asked me to comment on the original study involving the Nu complexes. I read the original paper (its accessible to everyone since PloS One is an open access journal--so you can google it and read it if you want). It's a well done study. The results were really solid. They observed the phenomenon in a patient and then replicated it in cats. I think we'll see replications of the study pretty soon. So no doubts about the results.

Now to the interpretations! What on earth does it mean that deeper (than typical) coma reveals synchronized brain activity. The authors were really reaching here and didn't know what to make of it. It would have been interesting if that one patient had reported an some cognitive activity during the time that the Nu complex occurred but I did not see anything about that. And cats of course can't tell us much. Since the Nu complex on EEG is new--we don't know yet what it means with respect to cognitive activity. So, for now, all interpretations are possible.

Jen's interesting interpretation is that it might have to do with NDE experiences. But then we have to accept that cats have NDE's too and why not indeed :). On the other hand, we might find that Nu complexes may not correlate with much cognitive activity at all and we need to be open to that interpretation as well. Who knows, only time will tell. But that study has opened up a whole new area of research on death, coma and the brain and that's a wonderful thing! Thanks for bringing it to our attention, Jen :D.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:28 am

Wow, what a whole load of thinking went into that paper!! Thanks for contributing Trails.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0075257

Here's my absolute lay-person likely having no idea what I'm saying thoughts, for what they're worth. Some of the similarities with Dr Eben Alexander's case and with my own notions of arguments against clair experiences and beyond individuation 'states' of awareness, outside of time/place cognisance are .... niggling in excitement. It truly is like another door has been opened.

Two huge parts of this study 'hit' me, and I truly do not know what they are saying it means scientifically - one the synchronization of the hippocampal networks (shown at figure 7) being 'greater' during Nc (nu complex) than Delta --- I just LOVE this :D I can't really explain it, but what I see is in Delta, which is already described as a state of Samadhi (with yogis etc) is such a lovely base frequency, but I always knew there was a level (maybe more) beyond this, and that they can and do operate simultaneously in the sense of no separation in time /sense awareness collapsing (maybe 'physically' they can't happen simultaneously,) but the 'switch' can be that quick.

In the discussion I don't know if what they are saying is what I am thinking - above Fore mentioned that in nde there is still the six senses, and I wanted to 'dispute' that, (both in nde and clair experiences) but the difficulty is that you have to use the 'this' is 'this but not this' notions. Maybe it is why some return from similar states to say they experienced 'nothing' and others on one level were in this 'nothing' state and able to make discernments of the minutae of stimuli within it. The 'nothing' is the purity of undistinguished equilibrium of every thing - ? this peak of synchronisation - where all things 'collapse'?

- the 'senses' are a) not six individually (and six forgive me is pathetically underestimated both in depth (degrees) and width (capacity to label) but collapsed into 'sense' in the more abstract / intuitive way, it's not individuations or delineation in senses, or in interpreting and labelling stimuli at all - it's this synchronised and so lightening fast and not 'physical' - and by that I may just mean not filtered & organised through other slower, more fragmenting brain layers - it just IS the SENSE.

The 'white light' is everything collapsed in equilibrium.

In terms of both describing nde and bringing clair and empath 'stuff' into recognition by individual aspects of 'linear' or 'individuated' senses one first, one starts, the doors open, all things are, in this state - in this awareness, in this collapsed everything, and then by individuation - so I'm guessing holding both this 'level' and using other levels of (ack!!!! - I don't know how to describe it - it's upside down!!). In order for things to be noticed or 'made sense of' in separation one has to slow it down - but it's upside down - maybe it's the labelling that's upside down - in terms of hertz etc this state has been given a 'lower value', but it's kind of inversely proportional. For me the 'resonance', the 'speed', the 'frequency' is higher, not lower, even though it makes sense in the turn the parts that are individuated-human aspect 'down' in order to experience the oneness of everything. Bringing information from the SENSE (es sence?) into cognition and individuation is 'hard work' :wink: being essence is no work at all.

So what I see in that 'picture' of increased synchronization is blending equilibrium. In some ways yes it's similar to 'right brain', but it's more. Right brain still has a sense of separation an awareness of 'self' in the picture. In pure white light synchronisation / equilibrium there is no separation, there is no self. Maybe that's what Fore was pointing to? Am I aware of that - that beyond that which I try to explain of it in experience there is this? Then absolutely, no argument.
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:01 am

Second yum following. From http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0075257

'Trails and others with scientific knowledge, can you tag with me on this please, I have questions.

2) In our view, the progression toward the νC state emphasizes the following concept related to brain mechanisms: wakefulness, as a state that hosts conscious processes and the domination of willful action is characterized by a predominance of neocortical activity. As these functions fade at the onset of unconsciousness, the orchestrating powers are relinquished to more basic structures such as the thalamus (in the case of sleep) or the limbic system (present data). When these structures are released from neocortical influence, they begin to pursue activity patterns on their own and proceed to impose these patterns on other brain regions including the neocortex.

Most of these activity patterns are already present throughout consciousness and unconsciousness. For example, hippocampal oscillations in the theta range in rodents are associated with sensory processing and the control of exploratory behaviors [44]. In our preparation, hippocampal theta oscillations were present during transient isoelectric episodes of BS. The oscillatory frequency then continuously decreased in parallel with the deepening of the coma. This was further paralleled by the slowing of intrinsically generated oscillations as a function of membrane polarization. Thus, the oscillatory frequency is not simply switched from one particular predetermined frequency band (e.g. theta) to another (e.g. delta) but rather displays a continuous evolution modulated by the depth of coma.

Can I ask... are they both saying that these activity patterns are in normal every day life AND that one needs to be in a coma to experience these different states? It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you have to be a coma and linked to an eeg in order for them to 'acknowledge' it or to discern it in isolation to other simultaneous (or near enough to in terms of no time) frequency activity. (?) But, I guess my 'thing' is that you don't have to be in a coma, you just have to be able to shut down the individuation sensing. For me the individuation sense is fear - separation - judgement etc

....

3) The presence of these oscillatory activities in the hippocampus raises some intriguing questions as to their possible involvement in mechanisms of plasticity related to learning and memory processes. The preparation itself and the easy reversibility from νC coma may prove particularly suitable for the testing of the role of hippocampal ripples either in their triggering of sharp waves as a mechanism of reinforcing memory circuits [31], or in downsizing the strength of neuronal connectivity for the purpose of synaptic homeostasis [45].


I am yumming all over this!! Similar but 'more' than right brain sans left brain interference there is no 'end' or 'boundary' to what can be known - is known, and what can be brought into other levels of awareness.

Is this what the quote above is pointing to? If we 'get out of our own way' sort of thing?

If so, I'm very excited!!

In terms of other species, other 'forms' of life - can we then accept that our 'measuring' of intelligence and what consciousness is, is based on our limiting perspectives and therefore we may also have that all 'upside down' too?

Trails said: It would have been interesting if that one patient had reported an some cognitive activity during the time that the Nu complex occurred but I did not see anything about that.

It certainly would be interesting - is there any way we can set up an interview with them?
As mentioned above though I would even find the state of 'nothing' interesting if they didn't bring it back to the other levels of awareness. What also, and what I find more interesting, even in those who report 'nothing' there is a post-experience difference, a resonant difference once that 'door' has been opened - and that can be in terms of energy healing, linking through another, clair experiences, precognition experiences, empath experiences, nde with recall through the 'layers' and near death only with recall of 'nothing' and those that achieve it in states of meditation.

It's recognisable, it's palpable - it may not be explainable, but it is real in terms of recognisable.
And it is recognisable in other species & 'life' forms - at the cellular and person-ality levels. And in expression of those 'beyond the veil'.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Nu Complexes - beyond flatline

Postby runstrails » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:26 pm

jen asked: Can I ask... are they both saying that these activity patterns are in normal every day life AND that one needs to be in a coma to experience these different states?


Hi Jen,
No they are saying that they have seen many kinds of patterns of oscillations and evolution and changes of those oscillations in the awake state--and in a coma there appears to be a pattern as well by which brain acitivity shuts down, then hippocampus then oscillates at a certain (Nu) rate in very deep coma and that is radiated to neo-cortex. So patterns and evolution are happening while awake and in coma--just different trajectories and paths.

You can comment on thier paper on the PloS website. Perhaps they'll respond :)
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