Suicide NDE

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...
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turiya
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by turiya » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:17 am

(But I guess, technically, if one hasn't wasted any opportunity at all... then he/she hasn't wasted the opportunity of opportunity wasting.... :mrgreen: )
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:38 pm

:lol: turiya
Webby said: If one cannot waste time, can they waste opportunity? Are some experiences more valuable than others toward the evolution of consciousness? The question of 'waste' then, if it is at all possible, must be related to the ability to choose.
hmm we're getting very close to that old topic about the Tolle article where he says when people assume there is free will, they don't recognise the things that are not 'free will'; and when they realise that there is no free will, then there is :wink:

As a verb - use or expend carelessly, extravagantly, or to no purpose - to waste... sounds yum to me :) guessing I do it all the time - surely that's just 'being'?

The conditional in the quote though webby is ... are some experiences more valuable than others toward the evolution of consciousness?

I would ask, do you think consciousness cares? :wink:

If we're talking about our own levels of consciousness, it's a mute point. If we're not conscious enough to recognise an opportunity, or not capable enough to both recognise and fall into the opportunity, then willingness is mute - therefore no choice has been made -unless it has. And if a choice has been made, it is still within our own awareness, capacity and willingness.

If we're talking about eternal consciousness, it's a mute point. It just is, whether we manifest an experience out of it or not.

I don't think I buy into the idea that consciousness is growing, or even needs to grow. Maybe I think about it as infinite already. Maybe that's why the idea of expending it carelessly, extravagantly, for no purpose (outside of the pure experience of 'expending' it) is all just fine.
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Webwanderer
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:57 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:38 pm
I would ask, do you think consciousness cares?
Thanks for twisting my head into a pretzel in your post Jen. :? :D
To answer your question I would ask, do you care? About anything? If so, where did you get that capacity? Can you express something that is beyond the innate capacity of the Infinite? Is Love not caring? Appreciation?
Is creation not intentional?
I don't think I buy into the idea that consciousness is growing, or even needs to grow.
What is life if not a growing? Is there an end to infinity? Is there an end to expansion? To potential? Does new have a limit? How does consciousness explore/experience limitlessness?

Just some fun considerations.

WW

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm

ww said: Just some fun considerations.
:lol: am still trying to picture your head as a pretzel webby :lol:

Answering a question with a question, is not answering the question, but deflecting. :wink:

I'd agree that 'caring' is an equal to everything else part / expression within the all. But like everything, it does/does not matter. It's here, as an expression or experience, and then it's not.

But if we're getting down to the source of the query about being able to 'waste' experiences, or opportunities...
Is creation not intentional?
is a pause creator.

And a good question. But what we all interpret of it, as a pure creation from you to the page, may be different. Your creation of it may have been intentional. And yet sometimes creation is just the natural consequences of cause and effect. Could it be intentional? Maybe and yes, sometimes - but intention usually has a end in mind, a result, a goal. Creation as and of itself if limitless and eternal can only have the experience of itself, not an end goal.

Therefore, I would still say, regardless of what is experienced, in purpose, in accident, in consciousness or unconsciousness, as an intention or as a consequence, it's all just experience/d of the 'all'. Therefore, whatever one deems to be a 'waste' is still an experience or an expression.

The thing is,we 'judge' or value one thing above another. Not consciousness itself.

For me, equilibrium accepts, absorbs, balances and is, all parts and aspects of everything - and consciousness is merely the experience of that. When we focus on a particular part or aspect (and no choice is wrong, it just brings a different experience) it's our focus that's changed, not the totality.

When that totality is eternal, to - use or expend carelessly, extravagantly, or to no purpose - to waste... is just being. It's being without judgement on the elements of it.

A daydream is as sweet as the experience of the finish of a marathon.

I can only recall how my consciousness, free of the bounds of the physical body - pondered purposefully in the scenario that the nurse was putting ever more doonas on my body and rubbing my body's wrist saying they had to warm me up, that I was so cold. But the 'mis-take' of that was gently, beautifully, innocently, funny - 'I' was the perfect blend of all temperatures, which made, in equilibrium - no sense of temperature except the perfection of all the temperatures... and that's the only sort of guess I can make at how 'consciousness explores /experiences limitlessness.
Does it know that in some forms temperatures are a physical experience of differentiation? I don't know, if it does, then only by focusing on individual experiences. Can 'it' do that? I have no idea :wink:

Can we do that? Only within our awareness and capacity to do so. I could recall the concept of being cold, but at that time I could not 'feel' it or experience it as the nurse seemed to think that I was/could. I was just this sublimely perfect - perfection of all temperatures, which negated any individualised experience of any of the potentials within the 'all' of temperatures.

It just seems to me that the individualised experience, is a physical matter thing, not a consciousness thing. And, that it is experienced only at the slower, heavier (denser), vibrations.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Webwanderer
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:23 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm
Answering a question with a question, is not answering the question, but deflecting.
Not if the question brings understanding to the initial question by enlarging the context. The thing is, can the question be definitively answered at all from the human mind perspective? Or is it just opinion based on accumulated belief systems? Aren't all our opinions just our best guess? Do limitations in understanding matter? If so, how?
But like everything, it does/does not matter.
Maybe you could define what you mean by 'matter'. Could be apples and oranges.
Could it be intentional? Maybe and yes, sometimes - but intention usually has a end in mind, a result, a goal.
Is exploration intentional? What is it's goal? What is being explored?

What role does pain play? We don't seem to like it, so why does it exist? Even if it's just a misunderstood energy, it effects our perspective... More so, if we don't understand it.
Therefore, I would still say, regardless of what is experienced, in purpose, in accident, in consciousness or unconsciousness, as an intention or as a consequence, it's all just experience/d of the 'all'. Therefore, whatever one deems to be a 'waste' is still an experience or an expression.
Agreed. But why experience at all? :D

WW

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:43 am

turiya wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:10 am
I wonder... if one never wastes a single opportunity in his/her life, then would he/she be wasting the opportunity to explore the experience of opportunity wasting?

:D
I think you're on to something :idea:
I don't think I buy into the idea that consciousness is growing, or even needs to grow. Maybe I think about it as infinite already. Maybe that's why the idea of expending it carelessly, extravagantly, for no purpose (outside of the pure experience of 'expending' it) is all just fine.

Love this Jenn.
Creation as and of itself if limitless and eternal can only have the experience of itself, not an end goal.
Yes, and this is the dilemma for me. I just can't wrap my limited human mind around the idea that we're here; we're creators....but yet....there IS no goal, other than to be here, in this very experience. But, yet, deep inside, I know it feels 'right' to me.

WW and Jenn, both of you have made such awesome points in this thread. Thank you both.

Maybe, for consideration, it's just a game of sorts. Like WW says, yes, there is an intention of choice to be here, in THIS body, as opposed to THAT body. Maybe THIS body; THIS experience is a perspective I wanted to explore, a theme of sorts.

But, like Natalie Sudman said, in her NDE when she saw the gruesome injuries she endured in the road side bombing, from the larger perspective of the non physical, she was just curious and excited to see what this experience would lead to, rather than anything else. She saw the injuries as an opportunity of sorts like "oh, this is interesting, i wonder where this will lead to".

Yet, if there was a true goal that we had to 'get somewhere' within a human life, as part of some spiritual goal, I don't think the experience of 'curiosity' would ever be possible in a larger sense, because we'd always be judging ourselves on whether we accomplished that goal.

And yet, while we are here, we don't HAVE to suffer. But, suffering too is a perfectly valid perspective.

Since All That Is is simply a love of inclusion and approaches everything from curiosity, then it would make sense that the more we (as a microcosm in our human bodies) get curious about our own every day experiences; our own emotions; the more we approach ourselves with acceptance and love, the easier our lives get. But, not because this choice was the 'right choice', and murder, rape, was the wrong choice, but simply because, we came equipped in this human life knowing that, no matter how tough life got for us, there's always that guidance, within our own capacity and willingness (as Jenn likes to say) to connect home.

But, we don't HAVE to connect home. Maybe it's like coming into a life, going down a water slide with your eyes closed and then waking up and saying....shit that was fun! Now I wanna try it again....but this time with my eyes open! If I can't remember to open my eyes, it's all good either way. It's still a fascinating, enriching experience.

I still don't understand this. But, the only thing that makes any sense to me, is that all experiences are absolutely perfect.....once we die and regain our larger focus, that is, and each of those experiences, add to the infinite expansion of whatever it is that we truly are. I don't know. Thanks for the great convo everyone. Keep it going. I'll be a spectator from here on out.

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:15 pm

I enjoyed your post E2B :D A spectator? (shakes head gently) I hope not.

You both know I live 'here' in the little flawed oh so humanly limited mind and body, but, with the memory of the 'larger focus' (nice term E2B).
Sh*t if there's supposed to be some 'purpose' outside of awareness and presence, I've screwed up really badly :lol:
webby said: Agreed. But why experience at all? :D
We choose what we experience, whether we're aware of it or not.

There are many potential experiences I now recognise in the energy of expressing my own ignorance or arrogance giving rise to an opportunity to stand under it, in it, so that I might truly understand that which I am missing in my awareness.

Sometime that 're-cognition' is enough.
With that awareness, love and compassion come flooding through, and it is enough then to just accept and re-member the things that were not within my awareness, and accept that they are obviously not within my awareness in these cases, and to bow to the experiencer.

I don't have to experience all of them. That's funny, because maybe I had to go through my last/recent experience to understand that. I'm only now realising that it's equally okay to say 'no thank you', as it is to say yes to life.

Natalie Sudman said: "She saw the injuries as an opportunity of sorts like "oh, this is interesting, i wonder where this will lead to".

While I 'get' that, and can smile. Once a thing has already happened, oops, too late, nothing but to hold curiosity and as much grace as one can muster.

At some point if an opportunity presents itself for more pain, judiciousness - wisdom borne of experience - can step in and say, yep, that would likely be very interesting, but think I'll pass this time. Not out of unawareness or fear - but out of that aware free will ET spoke of. And in an energy of love ad compassion, no harm is done.
ww said: Maybe you could define what you mean by 'matter'. Could be apples and oranges.
What I mean by 'matter' (in 'does/does not matter') is pure physics. For a temporary time energy composes itself into 'matter' density - - actions moving energy, thoughts, emotions, so yes in a moment the expression of that energy was (whatever), so it does come into 'matter', but it doesn't stay in that composition or density. What is left of it is a ghost of our re-creation, and by the time we're even breathing out - it's gone and composed itself into something else - and always, always in equilibrium in the larger perspective. So it does and does not (in the grand scheme of things) stand out as a thing of matter as permanent as we might believe it to be, or hold on to it as if it 'is'.
Is exploration intentional? What is it's goal? What is being explored?
Usually understanding or seeking what is unknown is the intention of exploration.

I can only say, at the bottom of every rabbit hole there is only one answer, to every question once you bury down to the root cause.

'(With) love and compassion' / or through lack of.

Once you truly accept that, the shortcuts get a little easier - not saying the experience/s get/s any easier, because as simple as it is, our awareness, capacity and willingness hinder us from getting to that realisation.

I still say that "the idea of expending it carelessly, extravagantly, for no purpose (outside of the pure experience of 'expending' it) is all just fine."

If Einstein was right, and energy just changes form - then ...
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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turiya
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by turiya » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:44 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:23 pm
But why experience at all?
Great question. :D

To me, that question is answered by answering this question: "Why is there duality?"

And, I love Swami Sarvapriyananda's answer in this video (at ~1hr 16min 30s into it):

https://youtu.be/YTMj2N3D898?t=1h16m30s
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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turiya
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by turiya » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:13 pm

I agree with Rupert Spira in this video when he says that the greatest, most profound experience possible in this seeming Duality is the "Awareness of Awareness" experience ( 49m15s in):

https://youtu.be/iGZ_CfLGDW0?t=49m15s

:wink:
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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