Suicide NDE

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...
Enlightened2B
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Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:25 pm

Read this today on Facebook and I know NDE's are not a hot topic on this forum. But, one of the few places I get to share these. So, I know there are a couple here who do enjoy these. The description of love, is so prominent here, in regards to what unconditional love truly is to me. I offer this to you all with love:
I continued for what seemed a very short time in elapsed time. I had a million thoughts as I went. Having time for so many thoughts made it seem like it should have been a longer time.

That I had thoughts confused me. I tried to understand what was happening to me. 'I' was still 'me.' I was, apparently, alive. I could not see myself. I could not raise my hand to look at it, but I was something - I still felt like 'myself.'

I was still thinking and feeling - but not in a body. I was moving without legs. I couldn't see any part of myself so I assumed I had no legs, no hands, no arms, no feet or anything you would normally look at to see if it was there. I felt surprise and wonder. I knew the meaning of those thoughts, too.
I floated 'higher' or further. I lack a better word for the sensation or the direction. Still, I knew I was moving to some place. There are no words that describe it well. I moved toward some other place from where I was. I was drawn there, not going there. It was not my power that moved me.
I was no longer in my body. I knew I was not on this planet. I knew that 'I' was not dead, not the way we mean the word. I was not un-alive, not unaware. I was 'dead,' had no body I could see, but I knew I lived. I just didn't know why or how. I couldn't figure it out.

I felt alive but I knew I was dead in our way of believing in death. I probably can't explain it better than that. To discover that I was not dead, when I had just killed myself, left me confused and amazed.
A thought came to me. For one moment, I was so sad my children and my mother would be grieved by my death. I regretted the pain my death would cause the family.

Then something changed in me. That sad thought faded away and I was overcome by a deeply peaceful joy. It was like I left all the cares and concerns that are so much a part of us with my body. They were gone from me.
It was a healing of my heart and a removal of my pain and grief so complete I felt it like a rock was lifted from me.
I was all done with the responsibilities we create here for the living. I had no fears, no shame, no pain, and no broken heart, nothing left to do. I was released. I didn't have to pay the bills or go to work ever again.

All the hurt I knew in life was gone from me. I had no responsibility toward others now. They would be loved and cared for still. I would always love them. I had no shame or sadness that I had hurt them. It was gone from me and I was filled with the comfort of knowing they would be cared for.
I was filled with joy by that knowing. It was a joy that was real. I could have danced it, sang it. I had NO emotional pain, no physical hurts. What I had seen as terrible pain, shame, grief and lack of love on this earth were no longer was hurting me. They had no effect on me anymore. I felt only the JOY of the release from the pain, the shame, the feeling that I could never take care of the ones I loved right. It was all lifted from me.
How much of my life's pain was of my creating and how much of it was from others didn't matter anymore. Not one thought of what I believed was bad in my life hurt me. I could not feel a pain anywhere. I tried to remember the things that made me chose death and could not feel the pain of them. Like setting down a heavy load after a time of holding it up, I was released from the pain of everything that ever hurt me. If I had had a way to do so, I would have cried with the joy of it. I was Free!

Even though I knew these things had happened, I had the memories, I could not feel any hurt or shame in myself. It was such a relief! That pure joy filled me up. I can't tell you how wonderful that feeling is with words. I can only repeat myself trying.
Bliss; It's a small word. I think it is one we only feel here like a shadow of what it really means. Anyone who has ever been hurt and had the medicine take effect to stop the pain knows the relief that 'absence of pain' can be. Something that many here on earth, are not even a reality to be lost, just the lack of pain, is a treasure to someone who hurts.
When I began this, I was in a deep, black heart hurt clear to my bones and now I was freed of that, and bliss is the only word that even whispers of the feeling in me as the pain not only was stopped, but removed. The pain was gone and all threat of pain in my heart or body was gone. No one could hurt me again, not even me! I could hurt no one again, ever! I was so comforted! I didn't hurt anymore. I was at peace in myself. Finally, I knew the meaning of peace in my heart. I believe it was the first touch of the Love and Grace reaching out to me.

Arrival
As this feeling passed through me I saw, off to my right, a golden glow, a light in the darkness, like a city's lights on the night sky. It lit the way for me. The light was shining, just over there from me.
I say 'I saw' but I had no eyes. I have problems explaining in words and concepts. I could see the golden light. It was like a candle behind a gauze curtain. Muted, but against the darkness, showing a vivid brightness.
I turned to face it but I had no face. I had no body I could turn. I did what felt like turning to face it.
I looked toward it, wanting to be there and not alone in the dark. I was moved. Instead of feeling like I was moving toward it all of a sudden I was just there. Like the transporter on Star Trek; first, you are here, then you are there. I arrived.
The curtain effect was gone. The light was crisp and bright now. I felt like I belonged. I was in the right place now. Whatever this place was, it was where I was supposed to be. There was no fear, only curiosity and yearning.

In front of me was an opening in a barrier built of golden light. The opening appeared to be a low wall that ran in front of me. It seemed to be built of glowing, golden rocks. Like a stonewall with a small opening for a gate it seemed to me. It was a border, not a defensive wall, it seemed. Too low for protection it just marked the boundary of whatever place this was.
I was aware of another, smaller 'glow' behind me and to my left, on the same side of the barrier as I was. It stood between me and the dark I had come from. I didn't know what it was. It felt like a protector is the closest I can come. The being who stood behind me felt like it had my back, if I had one still. I never saw this one very well. It wasn't much larger than I was, but it felt bigger and stronger.
Beyond the opening and over the top of that barrier I could see an immense, golden, glowing globe shape that seemed 'way over there.' I don't think it was a far distance but I had no way to measure. I just knew it was 'over there' and I was 'over here.' It was golden and white with the light it gave off. It seemed huge, yet far away.

There were more glowing globes with the smaller ones giving off their light in the distance. There were some at the rear of the base of the large one, in a cluster or group. They were right up next to it but not part of it.
I saw some more 'glowing globe shapes' off to my left. It was like a line of them approaching the largest sphere. They appeared to be different sizes, but that could have been distance. There was no way for me to know that, either. I had no concept of my own size except in relation to things appearing smaller or larger than I seemed to be. All these words are comparative, not absolutes. I had no way to judge.
It felt as if I remained by the place I call the gate for a short moment, taking it all in and processing it. Suddenly, I changed position. Again, I did not feel the movement of the change, only that the power that moved me was not mine. I went from where I was to another position without willing it myself. Something besides me moved me. I can't think of a better way to say it.
Think of picking up a caterpillar and displaying it on your hand in front of your face. Now be the caterpillar. It was something like that, I think.

The Meeting
I wasn't by the barrier any more. I could not see it anywhere. I had a feeling it was to my right and lost in the distance. All I could see was the huge, brilliant light now directly in front of me. I felt examined. I looked right at it, in curiosity.
I was right in front of and dead center (sorry, pun accidental) of the largest glowing globe of light, I had seen. What I learned next amazed me. I discovered that the glowing, golden globe of light was alive. It was a 'self.' It was a living, aware, loving being.
We were the same! We were both living beings. It was huge, loving and powerful, strong and gentle all at the same time. I felt small and confused but I knew it was alive. It knew 'self and other' the same way I did still. I wasn't dead, it wasn't dead, but it didn't look 'human.' It felt human to me.
I was aware that this being of light was aware of itself as alive and living. It was aware of me in the same way. It was strange to look at something I thought of as so different from me and find out it was not different. This felt like a surprising discovery; Kind of a 'Hey, it's another soul!' Not so much that it was 'human' and had been living on earth but I recognized it was another living, aware self.

Communion
I knew that other self was what held me where I was. It was who had drawn me closer. Now I learned it knew me. It knew me in all I was, in all my life, in all my truth. I could not hide anything from it. I had no desire to hide anything. I felt no fear or shame that it 'saw' all of me. Then it dawned on me. I got the first hint of truly understanding the meaning of the word 'grace.'

That being knew all of everything I ever was and loved me. Not just loved me but everything that defined me as myself, unique from any other bit of creation, was wonderful to it. It loved the way I was made, it loved that we were meeting, it loved me with all the love it had in it. Its love overpowered me. I knew that I was precious to it and treasured by it. I was perfectly what I was supposed to be and it loved me just that way.
If I was a diamond, I was flawless, perfectly cut, beyond beautiful. I could not be loved more by that being. Not one thing in me needed to be changed for that being to love me. I was perfect - in its eyes - as I was made. I felt it think at me, 'As I made you, I did you perfectly!' With joy, it loved me, as I was, completely.

That Being loved me so deeply that it would never hurt me. It only wanted my complete, loving self to be all the 'me' that I was created to be. I did not have to change. That which is my true and ever-living self is perfect. I didn't have to be anything but just me. Truth lies there. Unconditional love sees only the beauty of the truth of love in each living spirit.
We began to communicate when I understood it was 'speaking' to me. Then I knew it could 'hear' what I wanted to share with it. It was not with spoken words but more like with complete thoughts with no possibility of misunderstanding. It was a true communication of perfect understanding between two spirits.

I would 'ask' then would 'know' the answer from the golden, glowing, loving being. I had no lips to speak and no ears to hear but I heard and spoke somehow. So did it. I reveled in that complete, pure, communication. There was no possibility of misunderstandings or evasions. There were no words to confuse the issue, only the truth of learning and knowing each other between us.
This is how we were supposed to communicate and understand between two people. It's that 'heart to heart' talk taken to the ultimate level. I feel the lack of it here. Words are so bulky and awkward compared to just 'showing' you how I feel or what I think. In every sentence I write here, I feel the weight and awkwardness of these words.

I have little memory of all that passed between us. We 'talked' for a time, in loving joy at being together. I was small and asking questions. It was 'answering' me, giving me what I felt a need to know as fast as I could conceive the question in my thoughts. I didn't have to ask some things, they were just showed or told to me.

I 'knew' (was told?) that being loved me just as I was. I did not need to change one thing to be perfect. I was perfect to it. I knew it felt a true joy in being with me. I felt like it was just bursting with happiness because I was there. It was beyond glad to see me; it loved me. It thought I was just perfectly made and was thrilled that we were together. I repeat this because it amazed me.
Then I was looking back at it again, shining down on me. There was another feeling of change. I felt like I was moved closer to that being. I have tried to tell people how it appeared to me but words are inadequate. Still I attempt it.
Imagine a large, round, globe shaped zinnia. It's deep golden in the center and composed of many tiny petals. Starting at the center a small circle of golden petals appeared to come out from inside the being itself. There were four petals in this first circle. See each tiny petal as a moving, golden flame going outward from an ever-refilled center.
Each petal seemed to stay the same size but each row of petals magically multiplied to increase the circle it was part of, to a size that kept covered that rings area of the globe.

They were not expelled from it, like waste, but becoming, being created, from the power of the love within that Being. Creation as love made real, manifested. I believe each living thing has been created by the Power that is the Divine Love.
As the rows of petals or flames traveled to reach the visible edge of the 'body' of that Being, the color intensified. Each petal changed from the golden hue it had at the center to a glowing white-hot shade. The being was radiating an aura around itself so pure the color can't be named.
Yet the center never stopped putting out new circles of flaming petal shapes. The glow I saw around it I felt as a radiation of love on me. Like the sunlight on a hot day touches your skin, love touched me.

The whole being never moved, yet its apparent surface was constantly in motion. That is the closest I can get to explaining its physical appearing self.
It did not have to let me see it so closely that I could see the tiny circle of four petals burst forth from the center. It was an intimate detail of itself that it shared with me, a very close up view. I believe it not only loved me but it wanted me to know it, all of it, as it knew me.
That was the greatest gift it gave me. It loves me so much it wanted me, little ole' 'killed myself me', to know it better and to love it, too. It wanted my love given to it freely, knowing all of it. It wanted to be loved by me the same way it loved me, knowing all of me and choosing to love it, with no limits.
With a new friend, we listen to them tell us about their life. We get to know each other better over the time we have together. Because we love we want to share all of ourselves and we want to know all of them. It 'showed' or told me of itself.

There was more than the looking, there was a learning of that loving being that I have little remembrance of but I know it was real. I knew it like I know my mother or sisters. It had showed me it knew me. Now it let me know the unique self it is.
It didn't want to love me like a pet or like a possession; it wanted to love WITH me, like a friend. It WANTED me to know and love it just the way it was with an unconditional love. Being loved and loving was as needed to that self's joy as being loved and loving is to me.
As worthless as I saw myself, that I had killed myself, all that I had done wrong in my life, and still that being didn't just love me, it wanted to BE loved by me. It said and showed the truth of that to me, I felt it. It wanted my love. I was desired as a personal, loving friend. To love like that I had to really know it, all of it. That is what it showed me. It's true self.

I loved it, but it had loved me first and I loved it for loving me. I wish that I could explain how precious that was to me, to be wanted when I didn't even want myself. I had just killed me. To be told I was not only desired as one to love, but that it wanted me to love it. That one so loving sought me out in such a way was more than I could understand.
What greater love is there than a love that reaches out to you and says, 'I will always love you,' then shows you all they are, not knowing if, in the telling, something will make you judge them someone you can't love. It made itself vulnerable to my rejection. How could I not love a being that trusted me with all of its true self?

That being already KNEW me before I arrived there. It chose to love me and wanted me to love it, KNOWING all of it. I wasn't asked to love blindly. I was showed the self that wanted me to love it. It wanted to be chosen by me as one that I would love. It had loved me before I was human, it loved me before I was born, it loved me being back with it, but most of all, it loved that I loved it, too.
It was joy filled that I loved it. I was in a state of bliss from the love we shared. So was my new friend, the Divine Loving Being. Our perfect understanding in complete Love was, and could only be, Divine.

I was HOME. That is what it felt like, the ultimate homecoming. I was where I was meant to be. I fit perfectly there. I was so glad to be there, loving with that being. 'It was where I was meant to be' is as close as I can put it. To be together with that other, loving self was the perfect place for me to exist. ----- (this NDE is actually MUCH longer and worth clicking on the link to read in its entirety)

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Webwanderer
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:12 pm

E2B, it mentions a link to the rest of the report. Who wrote it and where is the link?

Thanks for posting.

WW

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:40 pm

Sorry, I must have accidentally cut off the link. Here's the link. Person's name is D.S. Weiler. In the link below, they also have a link to their own website as this person has their own E-book too apparently. I haven't checked it out yet.

http://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1dw_nde.html

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:03 am

By the way, if you read the latter part of the NDE where she was sent back, in listening to an interview with Natalie Sudman (which I shared in another thread yesterday), Natalie, from her experience, saw that WE are the ones who choose everything. She said in the audio interview that she believes that the people who said that they were 'sent back' likely did not go 'deep enough' in their NDE to realize that the perceived other being who 'sent them back' was actually just a greater, more expansive part of themselves (like the higher self or the Over Soul). So, in essence, we (the Higher Self) are the ones who always make the decisions. I kind of liked what she said, because I see it in a similar light.

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:37 am

Thanks E2B. I followed the link. For those interested, the e-book is free. Here is the link:

http://1way2see.com/thebook.html

WW

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:38 am

Natalie, from her experience, saw that WE are the ones who choose everything. She said in the audio interview that she believes that the people who said that they were 'sent back' likely did not go 'deep enough' in their NDE to realize that the perceived other being who 'sent them back' was actually just a greater, more expansive part of themselves (like the higher self or the Over Soul). So, in essence, we (the Higher Self) are the ones who always make the decisions. I kind of liked what she said, because I see it in a similar light.
I love the way Natalie speaks of these things, thanks for re-minding me E2B.
From my perspective in my own experience, it sort of seemed that on one level there is a choice, but on another it's like there is no reason-able 'other' choice - if that makes sense, which is why I understand ET's thing about no free will when you think there is, then actual free will when you accept that there isn't.

The higher self awareness is probably this ^.

When we judge a thing outside of it, we don't see it in its perfection and totality.

While re-entering my own body was not really a logical or conscious choice of my choosing, (especially as without me the wait for my son to rejoin me would have been much shorter, and being with him was the primary awareness-reasoning even knowing the 'fault' in it as logic) but there was no other way things could unfold as they were set on the course to - from all of our higher selves (and by all I mean far more than one would normally recognise) - and from all that came before and within it.

I was very aware of the logic and of some pathways closing, and the natural consequences of choices exponentially throwing us into one way more resonantly opportunistically over another.

I was also aware of 'pressure' to return to my body before I was ready to - but ultimately yes, it was voluntary, and in a flash of acceptance - done.

The thing with that is, that you then have no excuses and cannot feign ignorance for the choices you make after that - but at the same time you understand the ultimate blamelessness because you've seen and experienced it.

:roll:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:45 pm

I sent this in a PM to Jen and here is her response. I will add more to this after as well.
E2B: I'd be curious to know if, in your NDE, you learned that everything was sort of already 'set in motion' in a sense? I found your comment on free will very interesting. It's something I've gone back and forth with over the years, not having an NDE myself. Over the past year, I had delved heavily into the LoA stuff, so I see a clear avenue for 'choice' in that, but yet, perhaps on a 'larger' level, there is no choice. I don't know. I have spent so much of my life worrying about making the wrong choices, fucking up, and making mistakes. So, this topic always interests me. Would love your experiential opinion if you do happen to see this message.
Jen:Remember that image of the universe and also the mouse brain neuron? - if you can't, google it - two replica patterns of lines and connections etc.

It's like that - there are energetic pathways in everything, be it neural or galactic - by each choice you turn one way or another and from there there are still infinite possibilities, but some have been discounted (the path we didn't take), and because of experience even if you turn back down the same path you have changed, so it's not the same experience.

We don't sort of jump across those lines - we have to go linear - look again at those images and you'll see. We are energy, and they are the energy flows, the available pathways if you like.

I can assure you of one thing I did learn though. There are no 'wrong' choices. There are only choices that result in different experiences. Are we all heading to one particular point or place? Maybe. I don't know. It's so infinite.
But, we are making those choices based on past experience - hopefully becoming wiser with understanding the reality of consequences - not as good/bad, but as different.

In my NDE case, everything that followed, followed as a logical, consequential outcome of everyone and more involveds' choices. That is the doctor who made the mistake on me and little George - his choices borne of his past experience, the doctor who resuscitated little George - his choices borne of his past experience, me even being pregnant and bearing little George - all my choices - which I could see to that point. There was no going back on any of them and undoing any of the consequences that brought us all to that point - that moment. Little George's choices - I know less about. Was he an innocent? I don't believe so, I believe he came through me on purpose, but for what purpose ??? a combination of all our choices leaves each choice as limited.

Mis - takes are still valid and valuable, for the opportunities that they open up.

I guess if anything I saw as mis-takes my perspectives on my friend's murder, and her murderer, it was me - not either of them - that caused my suffering in the choices I made in anger and fear in response to that 'event'. Even that, she 'chose' to leave her work five minutes early - I'm not saying to meet her destiny of being in the street at the moment her killer was firing a gun, no. I'm saying had she stayed at her desk five minutes more, likely someone else would have received that bullet. The multitude of choices her killer made were from his own limited choices.

Pick a spot on either of those pictures and follow linear paths, choose at each crossroad to go wherever you want in the picture. Hopefully that will show you, some direct paths, and some indirect. Again I guess the mystery is are we all heading to somewhere? Or, are we all just dumped at a point, and wandering around making choices? If we make the experience as the 'goal', getting better at those choices, maybe it is the journey(ing) that is the point of life, not the destination.

Funny, my daughter Sheona was doing an artwork that said as much when she was killed. And, I cannot deny that her journeying was amazing. She cottoned on to choosing love over fear far earlier, and far better, than I did.

So, in short, set in motion only in so much as having limited even if multitudes and myriads of potential choices of paths to take.

Ponder on those pictures ... they are so 'it' of everyone's experiencing and colliding with the choices of others etc.

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:19 pm

To carry on with this discussion, one of the things that has come up for me, is the question of.....well, what is the 'goal' of life then? I am posing this question from an experiential perspective of how this directly relates to my own life, and how I can apply it to my own life; how this relates to all of our lives, as someone who has constantly worried about making the wrong choices in his own life.

Over the years, I have personally explored so many facets of New Age literature on this topic, and interestingly, so much of the material has not resonated with me. And yet, there is a select portion that does, indeed resonate.

We hear constantly how in the 'other realm' all decisions/choices are seen as perfect. Kelly Sammy had a really profound suicide NDE when she intentionally OD'd in the back of her SUV. Her experience showed her that her own choice for suicide was complete and utter perfection and she felt this when she transitioned. Here's an excerpt:
The day I committed suicide, I overdosed on very heavy sedatives. And LOTS of them. I was in my SUV vehicle laying in the back. I felt my body slow down, my breathing become very shallow and my organs stop working. That is the only way I can describe it. I was literally 'aware' of my death. My first realization that I was "DEAD" was that I was ABOVE my vehicle looking in at my body convulsing and fluids leaving my body. I witnessed the entire thing. I didn't feel scared. No pain. No fear at all. Just a pure peace with it all. And then I was in BLISS. I was not separate from anything-I was EVERYTHING. I became it ALL. This is the oneness I now understand fully. That feeling is just one of EUPHORIA. And I never wanted to LEAVE that place. The feelings that permeated my entire BEING (even though I was not separate or a being--a really difficult thing to explain..)permeated with LOVE. And as I experienced this, I was also a witness to my entire LIFE.

I was able to view and communicate (without ever having to use words) with everyone in my life in a single brief BLIP. I was able to thank, apologize, forgive, accept, and just come to a complete AHA with all that had transpired. This was not something that felt 'necessary' or like a requirement. It was nothing like what I have heard of people having a 'life review'. There was NO judgement. No one to tell me I did this wrong, or this right. All simply WAS and all simply WAS LOVE. And even though I was able to communicate and have those moments of acceptance, apology, forgiveness, etc...that was simply because my human self wanted to close those loops. Almost like a finality if you will. And EVERY SINGLE experience was a celebration. Even those we would label 'bad' or 'wrong' were celebrated purely as an EXPERIENCE.

I feel like this co-experience of ONENESS lasted a lifetime and a second at the same time. Simply because there was NO TIME. My next experience led me to what I refer to as the Akashic Hall of Records and a huge stone table where I was greeted by many Souls, of all 'type'. Some human, others not. Here, I was shown how we as souls chart and draft our life plans. I was able to understand mine further and realize that even this experience of suicide and death was charted. I am giving you minute details simply because of time and space lol but I could talk days about each of these areas of experience during my 18 minutes of apparent 'death'.
As humans, we often get very focused on goals, and achievements and, I think there is, of course a place for all of this while living a human life, no doubt. But, in a larger context, it seems to me, from everything that I have explored (material that has resonated, including Jen's response above) that the 'purpose' is IN the experience, regardless of the outcome.

Such that, perhaps just for a moment, we can consider that we (as these infinite Spirit or whatever term you would like to use) choose to explore this vast, diverse physical landscape (human in our own context here), so that we have the thrill of understanding what it is truly like......to make a choice, to have a potential. And then, creatively, to see, where those choices/potentials lead us. There is no inherent value in the actual outcome of those choices, in a larger sense, but the value is in the experience itself, of being at the choice point. As we so often say, it's the experience itself; the journey which is what we salivate (with excitement) over in choosing to explore these lives.

Natalie Sudman recently had a Facebook post about how the adventure of life is IN the challenge. As creative, infinite beings, we love that challenge. And as we all know, human life naturally has its ebbs and flows of challenges. Not challenges to 'overcome', but challenges, to see how we will respond, in a sense, with always the option of 'coming home' in the moment. It's all a creative tapestry, to see where this experience/choice will lead to; where THAT experience/ choice will lead to. And yet, in my own personal experience, my own health challenges and my own emotional challenges were the gateway on the path to lead me back home to myself. It taught me self love, which is something I was never emotionally attuned to growing up. But, yet, in a larger context, whether that challenge led me home, or led me to more suffering, I personally think mattered not. Which seems paradoxical to our limited human minds who always view things in terms of black and white; start to finish, etc .

But, ultimately, "All roads lead to Rome". Where else could they possibly lead to? If our true nature is already Perfect, what could 'utter Perfection' possibly 'need' out of a physical life?

The other option (which I don't believe, but just proposing for hypothetical purposes), is that the choices that we make could essentially be 'wrong'. In other words, if we have a very very specific purpose in incarnating, then every choice will ultimately matter so greatly, as to whether we 'pass or fail', because the initial 'choice' to come here, was built on some sort of 'need'. Please understand, the needs in human life are something very different than the hypothetical 'need' I am referring to here from a perspective of Spirit. But, I don't believe there IS a specific purpose, other than perhaps general 'themes' we come to explore, out of the shear curiosity of what those themes are like, and what potentials they could offer us in creating and the joy, the thrill, the excitement of seeing how those potentials play out. Like a child imagining a game in its head and all of the potentials that could potentially happen during the course of that game. Oh how exciting!

Now I say ALL of this, not as a person who has experienced this and knows this to be true. I just don't know. I merely offer a perspective, a limited one perhaps, but one that feels intuitively 'aligned' for myself personally.

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:59 am

Thanks to E2B and Jen for sharing your insightful discussion. I like the neuron metaphor and how each choice brings additional experience so even going back the choice is never quite the same because of the added experience.

I don't see their being a goal in life as such in my view of things. But I do see purpose. I've not had an NDE so my perspective comes from whatever feel for clarity that I've developed over the years. I've spent the larger part of my adult life exploring for that clarity. I guess I'll have to croak to find out how much clarity I've actually gained.... or not.

Anyway, goals seem a funny thing. They're a two edge sword. On one hand they have great value as inspiration toward accomplishment. But from a higher consciousness directive, can we even know what they are? From a human perspective, there is the concern of emotional investment linked to a success or failure scenario. As much as I'd like to believe I don't hold such investment, I still feel twinges of concern of whether I'm wasting time in some of the things I do.

But then for all I know, the things I 'waste time' in may be the most important things I do. Spiritual purpose is strange indeed. All that angst aside, my investigations and explorations tell me that 'value' is closely related to the proximity of experience. The further we step back in the infinity of being, the less significance any given choice tends to be... or for that matter any given life.

WW

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:23 am

Thanks for contributing WW and Jen. I agree with both of you.

I do believe that the larger purpose is within some sort of infinite expansion/evolution of this thing we call 'God/Source/Being'. Almost like, experience is so infinite, like the imagination of the mind of a child, that each new experience just adds a new perspective in a sense to this 'Being' (call it whatever you will). Otherwise, heck, we wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be in this unique body. You wouldn't be in that unique body. Clearly there is some 'inspiration' of sorts (can't think of another word), for choosing to focus our attention on to this limited human experience, when there are infinite other options to choose from for incarnation within the multi-verse potentially, including the option to not incarnate/not focus our attention onto a limited life. Or maybe that is just my human mind trying to derive meaning.

But, I think that 'purpose' is so far different than the context of 'purpose' our human minds often think of it as. Because for our human minds, the notion of purpose always implies 'succeeding or failing'. But, I get this inner sense that the purpose in a larger context is kind of part of the essence of this eternal Being; eternal Energy field. Meaning, one of its inherent qualities is to seek out new perspectives about itself perhaps. It lives, in a sense, to experience contrast/duality/opposites and it's not because it 'has to' in order to 'get somewhere else'. That would already de-value this Perfect essence or wholeness. But, rather because it's just so damn curious; in such a loving, joyful way, excited way that us humans cannot even possibly imagine.

We hear about Love during the transition process. That love, in the way I sense it, is the kind of love that is present, when one realizes, they TRULY have absolutely nothing to lose, but so much to gain; It's the first day of Summer Vacation after school just ended. Oh the options I have! Christmas Morning; going to Disney World. So much to gain, in understanding what it's like to be a separate being. Why is it, that we feel such peace when we are in presence? Of course, only my own speculation as well.

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:00 am

Yum yum yum nice to be back with you all :)

So many ideas > potentials ...what shall I choose LOL!!
Firstly, Tolle related - sort of - if you go back to all those myriad pathways in the neuron - universe images there is no way it can be planned (imho) we'd all just be programmed actors on a stage and what would be the point! In order for that to happen one must know the ending, so one can build in the plot twists, introduce characters etc like a charade. It's a choose your own adventure, not a static / linear once upon a time ..... happily ever after the universe itself, and life itself shows us that.

What I rather see/experience is cause-effect to a great degree, and constant mini or major 'big bangs' out of which comes new life energy and/or direction shifts - whatever or however that evolves in a moment or in an eon. I see evolution in 'process' exactly the same as an argument between two people, or a person and bird if that's the case, or the same process as offering a hand or affection in kindness. It's all constantly evolving.

ET's wisdom in A New Earth when he talks of the conscious modes of being - responding to these encounters in awareness brings a different experience ( I agree wholeheartedly, given what I learned in that other sense of consciousness, and it's why I seem to constantly quote or refer to it)

Conscious modes of being -
acceptance - in this moment, it is what it is and it is what I have to deal with / work with within the limitations of what I have in capacity. Enjoyment - being one with the energy flow and pouring your energy flow freely and joyfully into it (yum), and enthusiasm --- this is the one for goals that must employ the first two simultaneously with it - because you are never going to have full capacity, awareness or control over 'what is' and what arises - it's as ET says, being the arrow flying towards the target, pouring joy into the journey and accepting what must be accepted. If you cannot change, and cannot change it (whatever the circumstance or 'other') and you cannot accept it, then the only sane thing is to remove yourself from the situation. Some folks see that as giving up or giving in, but it's not, it's just accepting reality is what it is in this moment.

Again that's accepting as a modality of being - awarely - and so these three modalities of being feed a positive loop - one feeds the next, feeds the next.

In contrast ego or fear generated responses create a negative loop that feeds negatively

- making enemy, obstacle or means to an end of thing, situation or person --- his thing for ego / fear in control = unawareness that we are contributing to that negative loop (or Einstein might say insanity).

The choice is absolutely ours within our awareness, capacity and willingness.

There is no script that says what we must choose, but absolutely there are limitations as to what we can choose. But if you're living awarely in the conscious modes, this is no hardship and does not cause unnecessary suffering - we choose that on top if we're not being conscious.

He also says if you are making an enemy, obstacle, means to an end of a thing, person or situation - take a look around - you are causing suffering to self and to others by those choices.

Simple really.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:43 pm

Jen thanks so much for contributing here and sharing your own wisdom. Eckhart's teachings still come back to me with the simplicity of his words. Such a fascinating topic and one that will forever intrigue me, until I croak and get all of my own answers or that NDE I have forever been waiting for :D

One thing I wanted to share. And this is just my own view. So, feel free to take it or leave it.

When people talk about 'pre-planning lives', I feel that there is a lot that is often not explained thoroughly regarding this topic, from the people who report these findings; be it NDE's or life between life case studies.

So, for consideration.......we are all multi-dimensional beings. Hence, and yeah, I'm going a little far out there here. There are likely multiple versions of each of us....in a sense. Perhaps, every detail of our life......already happened (since there is only this eternal Now). In other words, whether I chose to turn left at the doorway, or turn right......already happened and everything in between. Yet......while I am here, in this body, I haven't a clue, which of those choices I am actually going to take. They are just potentials.

So, I get the sense that all of our choices, are already DONE, since there is no past or future. When not incarnate, we see the entire picture of our upcoming lives and all of the potentials. Infinite potentials. But, they are just that.....potentials. Which of those potentials are we going to actually choose while here in body....in the moment? In other words.....the experience itself. And the choices are 'potentially' again (no pun intended).....infinite. Perhaps, another clue as to why the outcome in this life, is ultimately meaningless (since there are infinite potential outcomes), but it's the choice, and what that choice/potential brings (the cause and effect), that is most interesting to our own infinite curiosity.

So, all of it CAN already be mapped out....in a sense, and that map is likely an infinite array of lines and choices that can go here, there, here, there. From our human minds, we can't even comprehend what that map would look like.

But, the fun is in the experience, while here in the body, where we don't know (and considering we have the amnesia already coming into this life), which choice we are actually going to make. And in these bodies, we can only see one choice at a time. And it then appears that we have complete and utter free will while we are here in these bodies. But, from the larger 'non physical' perspective, when our focus of attention is not limited to JUST these human bodies, we can see that all of these choices, in a sense, already happened. Kind of mind boggling.

Just another perspective.

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:21 am

webby said: I still feel twinges of concern of whether I'm wasting time in some of the things I do.

But then for all I know, the things I 'waste time' in may be the most important things I do. Spiritual purpose is strange indeed.
Interesting sharing Webby, made me ponder too. Is it really possible to 'waste' time?
Our judging mind is putting a higher or lesser value on 'stuff' that we're putting our energies into. And again, it's not right or wrong, just a different experience - expression of our energy.

I know I saw probably one in the light that my judging mind would have put little value on, but in the light was of great significance, --- it was of the little girl me, sitting on a kerb, pondering on the emotions of ants and their relationships, if they grieved, in a time of grieving in the humans around me. For all around me I was just a kid sitting on a kerb 'wasting time' doing nothing.

But in the light I saw it wasn't a 'waste' or 'nothing', it was a precious, poignant, building block of my relating with all creatures - not 'deciding', not answering my own question, but holding open the possibility in awareness with empathy and love and compassion. It was probably a building block and a question because as a little child, up to that point, I probably hadn't realised how much adults could hurt, and on some level, realised that just because I hadn't seen or didn't know a thing, didn't make it not true or possible. Some in a reaction of fear to the unknown and unexpected happening close down and argue with the reality - others open up and realise that their 'reality' was interpreted and more temporary than we might have believed. Not at any level of intellectual maturity did these things arise --- the questions did, and the energy and quality of the questions fed the choices, in a willingness to experience the answers - if that can ever make sense!

Time is just the agreement / convention we have all inherited. It's neither physical or finite energy it's just a convention, it's not 'real' - so therefore, it cannot be 'wasted' as some believe. Just a 'different' experience in this or whatever moment (hmmm 'moment' as a not defined not passing of time haha)
I guess I'm saying if you can't waste it, whatever you are investing your energies in, are still a part of that great 'map' of your energy journey.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by Webwanderer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:49 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:21 am
Time is just the agreement / convention we have all inherited. It's neither physical or finite energy it's just a convention, it's not 'real' - so therefore, it cannot be 'wasted' as some believe.
No doubt you are correct. If time is not real it cannot be wasted. That said there is a context related to this human experience that has a finite duration. If one cannot waste time, can they waste opportunity? Are some experiences more valuable than others toward the evolution of consciousness? The question of 'waste' then, if it is at all possible, must be related to the ability to choose.

If one is an automaton, void of any freedom to choose, then there can be no waste of opportunity because there was no actual opportunity - only a script. We become puppets on Divine strings. Replay any video and it always comes out the same. But a genuine exploration is rich with possibilities even though it may be limited by the experiential environment.

If the goal then, is to gain knowledge and experience toward and evolution of consciousness, then choices may indeed matter in the direction and the quality of that evolution. So, is one choice better than another? How would we know? What would be the criteria of 'better'? Is asking such questions a choice? Or are we just on a roller coaster whose path is already determined, controlled by some force beyond our own? How even, did this dialog come to be? Can you choose to answer or not? Could I?

WW

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Re: Suicide NDE

Post by turiya » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:10 am

I wonder... if one never wastes a single opportunity in his/her life, then would he/she be wasting the opportunity to explore the experience of opportunity wasting?

:D
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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