Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:27 am

I ran across this Near Death Experience (NDE) and found it quite moving. Thought I would share it with you. It's not exactly the normal fare for this forum, but there have been some discussions of suicide and depression by some that may find this anadotal report helpful.

NDE Testimony of David Goines:

This is the true story about an event that forever changed David Goines' life and that has been the basis for the way he has since lived. When he was thirteen years old, he was riding his bike to school when he was hit by a concrete mixing truck. His resulting near-death experience revealed to him many of the secrets of the afterlife. Many questions concerning "Why are we here?" and "What is the meaning of life?" are answered here. At the end of his experience, he was given a choice - a choice that is offered to all of us. It is a choice we all must make when we die.
_______________________________

"I remember the fear of impact (getting hit), however, I have no recollection of the impact or having my body become totally integrated with the bicycle, nor hurtling over sixty feet through the air and landing in the canal. My next memory was quite a scene in the hospital emergency room. It was the most unique experience of my earthly life. Unique, because I was observing my own body in the emergency room and all the activity going on, except that I was not in my body. I was above it all - looking down. I was feeling no pain.

Everyone was very busy. I knew by their activity that I was in serious trouble. There was much discussion about how to extract me from the tangled wreckage of my bike and/or whether they would need to leave me in it until I was stabilized enough to try. I could see and hear everything. It was gruesome. It was frightening. They finally decided they had me stable enough to get rid of the bike and they called for a welding specialist to bring a torch to help cut me out of the bike. Thank God my body seemed to be unconscious. All of this would have been quite enough for my young mind to endure - until one nurse, whom I knew, said to another, "Well - it certainly makes you wonder if it is worth saving this mess."

She nearly scared me to death! At that moment, it was more than I could stand above and watch. I wanted to run away from this scene. I needed to escape. Quickly, I turned, took one step through the wall so to speak and found myself in total darkness. I looked back - nothing but darkness! Before I could barely think, "Now I've done it!," I apparently took another step; and I was instantly in the most beautiful garden I have ever seen. This garden was like a formal terrace which had been carved out of a rough mountain, just a few feet below the peak. Everything was white marble and evergreen. The air was so incredibly light and clear and fresh and cool. It seemed like I was breathing pure chilled oxygen. The garden was trimmed in evergreen shrubs, each a perfect specimen; and the fragrance of evergreen lightly scented the air. This place seemed so perfect in every detail. Directly in front of me, just a few steps away, was a marble bench which seemed to invite me to come, sit, and rest.

As I sat down and breathed in the fresh wonderful air, I looked around. What a wonderful place to rest. The floor was flat and smooth, polished to perfection such that it looked seamless. This garden terrace was surrounded by low marble pillars and a marble railing and looked like it had been formed right out of the side of the mountain in one seamless effort. I noticed the stark contrast between the formal perfection of white marble and the surrounding mountain that was rough and ragged by comparison.

It seemed like only moments while I looked around this beautiful setting, when I noticed a very warm, kindly, old gentleman sitting beside me on the bench. I had not seen or heard him come - he was just there. A light smile crossed his face, and I knew he was a friend. His face was warmly wrinkled, but soft. His eyes were a soft blue and yet with a depth and sparkle of wisdom. I looked away so as not to fall into his eyes; and as I did, he spoke to me. His voice was firm, but soft and loving.

He said, "Well. you've had a rough day," as if he knew all about it.

With a tired sigh I said, "I sure have!"

No further explanation seemed necessary as we both sat there. Then, I remembered just how much trouble I really was in; and I looked back at him hoping he would have an answer I could stand to hear.

I asked "Am I dead?"

He smiled to assure me and said, "No, you are not dead. Your body is in a lot of trouble, but it is being well taken care of and you do not need to worry."

I remember I felt so relieved to be told that I was not dead. Life was not over. This was not the end. All these things ran through my mind like a whirlwind that stopped abruptly, and I was filled with a million questions as to explain my current condition. I could not explain why I felt like I was sitting here in this place feeling very much like I had a body and yet knowing very much that I had left it behind.

Again I looked at him, and his face looked so understanding I knew he had the answers even before I asked the question. It was like we could read each others thoughts - even before words were spoken - and I'm not sure but what a lot of our communication did take place this way, mind to mind. Then a kind of panic set in.

I demanded of him: "How am I here, in this place, when I know that my body is back there in the hospital?" And "Where is this place? How do I see this place and you, if I'm not with my body? How can I be two places at once?" I began to feel very upset. "What are you?" I demanded!

His voice calmed me immediately. He said, "You are in a very special place. You are safe."

He went on to explain that, though my body was in the hospital, it was my physical body and that each of us has also our spiritual body and our mental body.

He said, "It is your mental and spiritual body that is here. It is with your mental and spiritual eyes that you see this place. Likewise, it is through your mental and spiritual body senses that you perceive everything in and about this place. This place is in your mind's eye, your imagination; it is as it is because this is exactly what you need it to be. Your physical crisis and mental need caused it to be just as you perceive it. I am here too without a physical body. You see me as I see myself in my own mind's eye. A mental picture (a thought) from my mind to your mind's eye. I am as you see me because this is the way that I perceived that you needed me to be. Who I am or my name is not important. I am here for you on behalf of your heavenly Father's love for you and to remind you from where you came."

My first thought was - The hospital?

He smiled a smile of wisdom and patience beyond wisdom itself and said lovingly, "No, I mean your Father's house."

It was then at that moment that I realized that I knew everything that he was saying was true and that I had known this consciously before I was born to this earth to have a physical body. I remembered that I was also a spiritual and mental body (being), and it all made perfect sense. I even remembered coming through the veil to find and choose my physical body. I was mildly puzzled that I could have even forgotten such things - when he reminded me that to have/experience a physical life - it was necessary to at least for a while, forget a little of our prior knowledge so that we might more fully experience the physical things, be physically challenged, make choices of free agency, and yes, even make mistakes so that we could learn from them in ways that only a physical life could impart. If we retained all of our prior knowledge, we might not bother to experience the physical life for its fulfillment - we might decide to skip the pain and thus miss the pleasure. I also remembered the promise I had made to my heavenly Father upon accepting the opportunity, challenges and responsibility of a physical life. To make the most of this opportunity for myself and for him. To return to my Father's house with the knowledge and experience gained such that likewise, my Father (Creator) could be enhanced by the experience. It was upon this basis that I realized why we need to experience a separation of our total reality when we take a physical body. That is because in order for us to appreciate, benefit, and learn all we can from our physical life, we must seemingly have to re-discover what we knew before - now in physical ways. Likewise, through this physical life we must discover how to return to our heavenly Father. By the good that we do to each other here, by the ways we improve our minds, and by the ways that we learn to cope with a physical body and physical life, do we earn our right of safe passage back to our Father's house; and in so doing, do we likewise magnify and glorify (honor) our Father. It is our Father's love that sends us on the journey and it is our love for him that will allow us to go back home to his loving arms again.

As soon as I had remembered all that I needed to know, my loving, special friend disappeared.

This was a wonderful place; it was everything I needed it to be. I not only remembered and could see from where I came, I could also see and remember where I was going, the many things that I was supposed to do. I knew when I chose this life that it would be challenging. I knew that I would be responsible for finding a physical life mate and that, together, we would accept the responsibility of providing new physical life so that others of God's children (creation) could likewise share in a physical experience for themselves. I knew that I would be responsible for choosing between good and evil so that my life would serve to glorify my heavenly Father upon my return to him.

As I continued to ponder and re-affirm these things, I felt very refreshed and again more conscious of my garden place. I turned and noticed a small winding path leading up to the crest of this rugged mountain. I had not noticed this path before, but it was there now and it beckoned me. I got up from my marble bench and began making my way up the steep access of the path. It was difficult and my footing was very unsure. As I reached the top, I looked down upon a beautiful meadow on the other side. It was so tempting. There were flowers of every description and color. A beautiful brook flowed playfully through the meadow, and I made my way through the lush grass to be by its side. The brook was only a few inches deep. The water flowed quickly. I picked up some pebbles and tossed them one by one into the water. I was about to turn away and leave when I looked on the other side of the stream and saw a beautiful white light much like sunbeams. From this beautiful light a figure appeared. It was clothed in white robes and white light such that I could scarcely tell the difference. I could not make out a face - but I clearly saw hands. These hands stretched out to me and a voice said: "Will you come unto me?"

Without hesitation I stepped into the water, then I paused. I was shaking all over. Then I remembered that I had a life to learn and experience. I turned; and as I stepped out of the water, I said "No, I still have many things which I must do."

I made my way quickly, running as fast as I could back up to the top of the hill and back down that winding path, nearly falling several times. As soon as my feet touched the floor of my beautiful marble garden, I was consciously back in my physical body, awake, and suddenly in more physical pain than I ever thought possible. My body was in five-way traction, and I was barely touching the bed. Everything hurt.

My first conscious thought was, "Big mistake - boy, I've done it now! I've screwed up big time! That white figure was Jesus and I told him, "No!"

I don't know whether I cried more from the physical pain I was in or the spiritual and mental torment I was having over this decision. Later through prayer and meditation, I have been comforted. I now understand and have so often reflected that through this experience I was being offered a choice. A choice which I, and each of us, have the right to make. My heavenly Father has such a profound love for me and all of his children, for that matter, that I was offered through his son Jesus the opportunity to come back to him right then.

His love is so great for his children that he was and is willing to sacrifice his potential for glory. Fortunately for me, I have the opportunity on his behalf to experience a physical life; and hopefully in doing so, I will ultimately magnify and glorify my heavenly Father and more so than if I had accepted grace and forgone this opportunity.

I did not realize that my garden experience had lasted for twenty-one days, until I was told by my doctors and nurses that I had been in a coma all that time. It was from this experience that I was able to draw enough strength and energy to rehabilitate my body, learn to walk again, and do all the things that I have been able to do so far in my life.

I am telling you this story, one, because I needed to tell it; two, because, perhaps you needed to hear it; and, three, because it allows me a credible basis for sharing with you much of the magic that can enhance a physical life."
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6279
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:26 am

Here's another interesting report that seems to be in line with our discussions here:


The Third of May, 1969

"B" Co., 2nd Bn/47' Inf (Mech.), 9' Inf Div.

It was toward the end of the dry season, and my platoon was pulling out. Our mission was simple: drive down the road, show the flag, and make sure that we still had the right-of-way. The two slowly moving tracks (armored personnel carriers) in front of mine were already kicking up the pulverized dirt road into little clouds of dust. Lady, the platoon mascot, trotted alongside wagging her tall. She no longer went with us ever since a mine had blown up the track that she had been riding on, I exchanged my cloth hat for a helmet, put on my wire-rimmed sunglasses, and halfcocked the .50 caliber machine gun as we passed through the base camp gate and picked up speed. Lady stopped a few feet beyond the gate and watched us go.

Our four tracks soon achieved a monotonous but comfortable 40 m.p.h. which created a welcome breeze. To either side of the road for mile after mile lay a gridwork of rice-paddy dikes dividing the land into tidy rectangles of various sizes. The pale yellow stubble of last season's crop failed to hide the earth in the fields. Separated by cracks an inch wide, the clay soil of the paddies had dried into flagstone-sized blocks. Although the land was flat, the fields did not extend far into the distance, but rather ended abruptly at the ubiquitous woodline.

This woods was composed of thick, lush, green nipa-palm and stood from twenty to thirty feet tall. From no place in the Mekong River Delta could one escape from being completely surrounded by it, Sometimes it might be a couple of miles away, and at others only a few hundred feet. It grew where the delta distributaries were, and they, like a root system were everywhere, "We" controlled the larger towns and villages, the roads, the skies, the major waterways, and the rice paddies. The woodline belonged to "Charlie."

With diesel engines roaring and trailing a huge, mile-long cloud of dust, the column began to approach one of the spots where the dreaded jungle wall squeezed in on the road from both sides. Instinctively, I began to watch the woodline more closely. All of a sudden, a very large anti-tank mine was command-detonated eight feet directly beneath my lil' ol' lilly-white *ss. I immediately knew what was happening (because my track had been blown up before just three weeks prior to this), and thought to myself, "Oh sh*t, here we go again." I was catapulted upwards along with everyone and everything else. People, dust, weapons, ammunition, helmets, and C-ration boxes formed an expanding inverted cone with myself in the middle.

On the journey upward, external time decelerated. The rates of the rotations of all of the objects surrounding me rapidly decreased-in an apparent violation of the law of conservation of angular momentum. I was fascinated by the unnatural ever-slowing gyrations of the bodies of my comrades and wondered, "Is this the end? Are we all dead?" At the apex of my trajectory, time stopped completely and an inexplicable calm descended. The state of consciousness that then prevailed was as to the normal waking state as the normal waking state is to a dream. Whatever It was, It was peaceful, omnipresent (temporally and spatially), omniscient, and absorbed everything into an indivisible Whole.

The entire universe past, present, and future collapsed down to a single Center upon which everything depends for its existence. It is That which does not change. It is the "Light" of Pure Consciousness which illuminates all things. It is the ultimate meaning of the enigmatic Biblical passage, "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light" (Matt. 6:22). It is the great Nothing-for it includes all things, and therefore, is Itself not a thing. That's how It gets to be the All-in-All.

Furthermore, there was (and still is) absolutely no doubt as to Its authenticity anymore than one would doubt upon awakening from a dream that the waking state is "real" and that the dream was "just a dream." In short, God Himself took over my reins in the sense that "I" no longer existed as a distinct entity-only He exists, There was an overwhelming feeling of bliss, love, compassion, and strangely enough a foudroyant sense of deja vu. The knowledge obtained that the True Home and the True Self of all things had been miraculously revealed.

The events of my life up to that point were unhurriedly and nonjudgmentally reviewed in great detail-not in chronological order, but somehow all at once-although some events were emphasized more intensely than others. Subsequently, "I" was allowed to exist again (there was no choice in the matter-it simply happened) and was given the opportunity to be aware of anything that I wanted to be aware of with the understanding that time was not a factor; indeed, there was "all the time in the world." I proceeded to focus on this or that aspect of my life and concluded that there wasn't too much to be ashamed of Actually, I made extremely poor use of this gift, but then, I was just a naive 22-year-old with a somewhat skewed concept of relative importance.

I could "see" a 360 degree panorama of the road, the woodlines on either side, and the other three tracks of my platoon (two in front and one behind us), The entire episode seemed to be housed in my head, but I was uncertain whether or not my head was still attached to the rest of my body-although, under the circumstances, this point did not seem important one way or the other. In other words, I really didn't care if my life was to be snuffed out or not within the next few seconds. I was then gently (but unequivocally) "informed" that I would survive the explosion without serious injury and even that I would make it out of Vietnam in one piece. So, selfishly, I turned my attention to the immediate situation and very calmly and deliberately concluded that I should: 1) stay conscious so as not to drown in two inches of rice-paddy water, 2) stay loose so as to break as few bones as possible, and 3) roll away from the track so that it wouldn't crush me to death if it tipped over. Only after my mind had run out of things to decide on did time start to rush back in. The transcendental state of consciousness terminated and I reverted back to the normal waking state. I could see the ground about 20 feet below me and began to fall towards it.

I was left with an intense feeling of awe and well-being. Ever since, I have been convinced with a conviction that precedes even my conviction that two plus two equals four that God is, For me, it is no longer a matter of faith or belief, but rather, one of knowing for sure because I have seen Him as He is. However, it was a pleasant surprise to discover that He is loving, compassionate, and forgiving-properties which I had not previously made adequate allowances for. I will always be thankful to Him for reaching down and picking me up in the palm of His hand so to speak at that particular instant; in fact, it still brings tears of gratitude to my eyes even as I write this thirty years later. Also, I no longer fear death (pain and suffering yes, but not death itself)- because, by His Grace, this particular raindrop remembers the ocean from which it comes. Unfortunately, the experience of this state is up to God not down to us, but take my word-for-word for it, It is always Here and Now and a lot closer than you think.

I have never experienced anything (before or since) which came anywhere near close to being as real and as profound as the state of consciousness which I have feebly attempted to describe. However, my remembrance of it has sufficed to console and comfort me through the vicissitudes of life-especially through the hard times. Sorry, I have not noticed any paranormal or psychic or supernatural abilities with respect to myself-just an unshakable conviction in the reality of something spiritual. If you ever run across a sure-fire method for reawakening this state within me (without blowing me up or telling me to meditate on OM for thirty years), please let know. May God go with you (He will anyway, but it's a nice thought).
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6279
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby no won » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:32 am

Very good reading in there Web. thanks a lot.
no won
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby thoughtz » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:46 am

I died when I was 4, and I felt rather than saw or heard other beings near me. It felt comforting and safe and loving. After that experience, I remember lying in bed at night thinking that someday I would die and when I did that, no matter how many people were there at the time, I would get to do it all by myself. I looked forward to "death" as something pleasant and fun like going to a carnival.... and I still do today.
Of course the scientists might say that my brain was oxygen deprived which created the illusion of all this... and they might be right. But when I think of death, it's pleasant and not frightening at all. A pleasant ego trip, but an ego trip none the less, even at 4.
Thanks Webwanderer,
Thoughtz
thoughtz
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:39 am

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby garuda » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:44 am

These are certainly very fascinating stories. And I would never question the authenticity of another person’s experience or their non-experience of lacking ego. But in good conscience, I must question for myself (only) whether these stories were just another perceived “experience” in the vast container of mere Consciousness. I cannot challenge this, but I can only relate to my own “nonexperience-experiences.” And in that placeless-place that I went, there was no color (black or white), no objects, no dimensions or locations, and no “self” witnessing any sense of existence or non-existence. I’m not trying to tout some glamorous supernatural experience here — I can only report that there simply wasn’t anything there except a vast, clear, colorless, placeless, location-less Intelligent-Consciousness that somehow sensed only itself as existing. And that “sense of existing” as mere awareness was not even apparent to my manifest-mind until after returning to the relative world of appearances – at which time I found that “no-thing occurrence" in my memory, but not as an experience of experiencing. This is hard to explain. And I mention it here not to impress anyone, but rather to share another possibility of an ego-death reality. I cannot absolutely determine objectively which is the ultimate reality of things. But I also want to indicate that the “pearly white gates” may be only one possibility. In my case, I would much more prefer the calm, peaceful, empty stillness. This peacefulness is beyond comparison, And I am certain that many other seekers have known this peace and contentment at sometime in their journey. And this peace does not belong to me. It is literally everyone’s peace, always available to everyone in any given moment of present-awareness. I was merely blessed with a brief taste of it. And I contend that had this “taste of profound peace and stillness” not happened to me, I likely would have abandoned this spiritual journey long ago. It is that “taste of peace” that pushes me down this arduous and sometimes treacherous path. That is my opinion.
Recognize present awareness......... rest in that awareness..........don’t become distracted.
garuda
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:03 am

Garuda, thanks for your comments in this thread. I began this topic in hopes of stimulating some discussion on a phenomena that is unique in the world of form. There are now literally thousands of these first person accounts (NDE's) on the nature of life after the death of the physical form. The impact on the experiencer is profound and not so different from awakening as discussed elsewhere in this forum. Most of them appear to result in refocusing the perspective on life of the one who experiences the NDE.

Can we say these experiences are illegitimate, just a function of a dying brain? Or is there something more to be learned from them? There are some interesting simalarities in how one views relationships to the people in their lives both for those returning from a NDE, and those who have undergone a non-dual awakening from ego/mind. Generally speaking, both lose their fear of death, both become more compasionate toward others and both worry less about the past and future. Perspectives on life becomes less ego-centric and more wholistic.

There are many who have come to this forum in varying states of suffering and depression. Many have moved on unable to find their way clear of depression's grip in spite of the many fine pointers offered here. My hear goes out to them and I seek other options for offering some release. It may be that those unable to transcend the ego/mind by virtue of clear observation, may gain perspective through the reports of so many that have been where they may someday go.

I am also curious to know if there is some way to bridge the gap in perspective of the clear presence-awareness that I know, and the cognizance that may exist beyond life in form.

Comments are welcome.
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6279
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby garuda » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:04 am

WW,
I wanted to wait to see what others had to say first, but no replies yet so I’ll ask my questions. But at best I can only shed some light on these issues. I doubt I have any real concrete answers. I feel fortunate when I can even understand the questions. Sometimes it’s difficult answering without first knowing the experience of the questioner.

I need to break your question into two parts. First, I’m not sure what you mean by a bridge between present-moment waking awareness and cognizance during life after death. I guess you must first define more what you mean by bridge. And also knowing what your personal experience of present-moment awareness is like. Do you mean when your attention is fully identified with the natural pure awareness during your waking state? Or do mean just being aware of your surroundings? In other words, Are you referring to being the awareness that is aware of itself, or are you the mind that is using awareness as a tool to see your surroundings? I don’t think I can answer your question specifically without knowing your state of awareness. Sorry.

And the “bridge” still throws me. Do you mean: “is there a direct connection or relationship between waking present-awareness and the after-death consciousness?” Are you asking if there is a technique to revert back and forth between these two states?
Recognize present awareness......... rest in that awareness..........don’t become distracted.
garuda
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby coriolis » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:44 pm

The NDE of John Wren-Lewis seems particularly fascinating to me since it is free of any form of religious interpretation. Not that there is anything wrong with religious symbolism other than it being a limiting factor to "understanding" if you happen to have been inculcated from a different "tradition" than the one being related by the NDE experiencer.

I think what Mr. Wren-Lewis relates is closer to the naked reality of both enlightenment and the NDE experience. I think the stories and symbolism only come into play when a mind starts to try and "explain what happened" by trying to make concept based meaning out of that which is, in and of itself and without any need of exposition, absolute meaning. This whole can only be fragmented by conceptual awareness which is, I believe, the main source of frustration experienced by those who are struggling to understand understanding itself.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin
User avatar
coriolis
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:51 pm

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:30 am

garuda wrote:I’m not sure what you mean by a bridge between present-moment waking awareness and cognizance during life after death.


I guess what I'm looking for is an understanding - a perception - that incorporates both presence awareness as pointed to by Tolle (and many on this forum, et al), and a world view that is inclusive of life in realms beyond the physical, to whatever relationship exists between them. I can make some sense out of this relationship from a mind based analytical perspective, but in so doing, it becomes more speculative than I am entirely comfortable with.

My experience with presence-awareness is direct and clear, but as I have no recollection of realms beyond the physical, expanding a life view to include such realms and relationships is based mostly on anecdotal reports. I say mostly because I feel a sense of recognition, and am moved by many of the accounts I read. I would even go so far as to say that some of my most clearly present moments have come in the reading of these reports, similar to reading and/or listening to Tolle, Adyashanti, Jurgans and others who helped clear out mental baggage.

I would add that presence-awareness has brought clarity and freedom (for the most part) from ego attachment; but it has also made me comfortable in a somewhat hermitic lifestyle. I'm not complaining, I'm quite happy and very much at peace with the world. However in studying NDE's, it seems that those returning have renewed purpose. They are often told they yet have lessons to learn and that they must return.

While many, if not most, report a definate experience of oneness with all life, little is suggested from the god-like beings they encounter that their returning purpose is overcoming egoic attachment. It appears to have more to do with relationships and love than with the nature of self identity.

coriolis wrote:I think what Mr. Wren-Lewis relates is closer to the naked reality of both enlightenment and the NDE experience.


Your point is well taken, but in the many accounts I have read it is a common theme that the NDE'r recognized in the experience that he/she was being shown what they needed to make the most out of the experience. I can only assume that would hold true for Mr. Wren-Lewis as well.
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6279
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby coriolis » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:13 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
coriolis wrote:I think what Mr. Wren-Lewis relates is closer to the naked reality of both enlightenment and the NDE experience.


Your point is well taken, but in the many accounts I have read it is a common theme that the NDE'r recognized in the experience that he/she was being shown what they needed to make the most out of the experience. I can only assume that would hold true for Mr. Wren-Lewis as well.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "void" or "dazzling dark" are not particular things, persons, deities, or beings and that, in not being anything in particular, they are the emptiness from which all things arise -- the indispensable "space" in which whatever is may have it's brief stint of being "something" before again being "nothing in particular". I say this is closer to the "naked reality" because it does not mistake the "womb of being" for whatever content may arise within it.

A young child immersed in Disney Characters might be met on the other side by Mickey Mouse because that might be the form that best expressed what was needed at that child's particular level of consciousness. But the truth transcending all form is the formless void in which all forms coalesce and dissolve.

As in Mr. Wren-Lewis' account:
Where did you come from, baby dear?
Out of Everywhere into here.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin
User avatar
coriolis
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:51 pm

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby no won » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:24 am

I haven't got a near death experience to offer but on re-reading the thread I was reminded of a puzzling thing that was noticed in childhood. So its not from beyond, maybe this here/now is the beyond that the mind keeps hidden and its only a case of close observation that reveals. So from a memory.

I was about 10 years old and I was in my back garden, when I noticed a guy off in the distance, about the lenght of a football field. He was smashing a big boulder with a sledge hammer. On taking more interest I noticed something wasn't right, the scene was out of "Time" or sequence. As the guy hit the rock there was a delay in the time it took for the "sensation" to reach my ears. Not strange to the mind at all these days, yet I have remembered this for 40years, why? It was so out of sync that it didn't seem real.

As I kept watching I remember noticing little odd things. Of course I "know/think" the reason for the delay in the sound reaching the ear is that sound travels at 186,000 miles per second. This is something thats been told by the mind and believed in the mind. Yet I remember this. As the hammer hit first, I could hear a high pitched Ping sound followed by the sound traveling outwards and as the hammer was raised I "FELT" the sensation in the ears. This intrigued a kid and I watched for a long time. It seems that I heard the hammer hit as a "Ping" this sound did not travel to the ear,... it was in perfect time with the visual, how could I hear from here ?. Then there was a "feeling" of the sound spreading outwards as if I could hear the sound approaching,... a swelling feeling all around,.. yet the sound still hasn't reached the ear. Then as the hammer was raised again, the thud of the blow was a "felt" sensation in the ear.

The time taken for the "sensation" to reach my ear and "felt" in the ear wasn't the hearing of the sound. I was already hearing the ping, the swelling surrounding of sound as it spread outwards and then the noticing of "time" a delay,.. out of sync/harmony as this vibration touched the ear. Fast forward to Now.

As I sit in the evening in the garden listening to the birds sing, only listening and just being I hear and feel that very same sensation as I did as a child. The bird whistles are "felt " as though traveling outward till the ear feels a vibration. And we are told this is hearing. Maybe one is "listening" and the other is " the hearing " without a listener.

Hearing doesn't require effort, there is only the hearing. Listening requires effort,.. "to listen", a "me" is needed, while hearing just IS. Be still and notice what really IS.


There are many who have come to this forum in varying states of suffering and depression. Many have moved on unable to find their way clear of depression's grip in spite of the many fine pointers offered here. My hear goes out to them and I seek other options for offering some release. It may be that those unable to transcend the ego/mind by virtue of clear observation, may gain perspective through the reports of so many that have been where they may someday go.

I am also curious to know if there is some way to bridge the gap in perspective of the clear presence-awareness that I know, and the cognizance that may exist beyond life in form.

Comments are welcome.


There are many who have come to this forum in varying states of suffering and depression. Many have moved on unable to find their way clear of depression's grip in spite of the many fine pointers offered here. My hear goes out to them and I seek other options for offering some release


A former sufferer of chronic depression that left the forum for a while but didn't go away and Now uses a different handle as depression is no longer identified with,... after about 40 years of "wanting truth" strangely enough. This realm may be every realm ? who knows ? lol. Thanks to all on the pathless path.

edit for spelling and more spelling errors
no won
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby no won » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:55 am

Thought this thread would be more popular than this. There is a little clue in the story of the boy and "Thors Hammer" above. In case it slipped by.... to quote "me"

and then the noticing of "time" a delay,.. out of sync/harmony



Did the "boy" at age 10 notice "time" perhaps as never before and the questioning began, giving rise to a personal sense of "self" in time, out of sync/harmony/ a delay/time. No the boy entered "time" and lost the harmony. "Till Now that IS.

Another "pointer" not noticed in the world,..
What about Bethoven, deaf at 14. Now that must have some pointers to awakening. When listening to these symphonys the "thought" usually comes how did he do this while deaf ??

Well what could it mean then. We have the evidence in the music,.. but the rest is a story ( I'm not suggesting its untrue, a different approach is all ) of Bethoven and a story of deafness. If it is approached in that manner, what are the "pointers" pointing too. Perhaps that there is more to HEARING,.. and not the "listening" that requires mind/effort. Did this genuis create without the listening ? yes,.. he created what he was "Hearing" which is a whole lot more than Sound. Perhaps his music and the way it was created are all "pointers" to BEING ITSELF, that which is not diminished by any loss of the "personal/physical abilities. That beingness is Essence/Source/creativity.

Hers a quote:
VI. Deafness
A. The secret
It is not known for sure when he began to go deaf, but he kept the fact a secret until 1801 when he wrote a Bonn friend about his "miserably life".

Seems he suffered and awoken perhaps ?
Link to this qoute. Haven't read it all but it may be of interest to some.
http://www.edinboro.edu/cwis/music/Cord ... beeth.html
no won
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby innerhike » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:09 am

I would encourage people to read some of the books by Dr. Brian Weiss. He is a psychiatrist who has documented hundreds of past life regressions, and recently future life progressions. According to his work there is clearly something in us that is fully aware of everything (non local reality) even where we are in our mother's wombs. I grew up in India amidst deep reverence and appreciation for reincarnation and while I remain open to the possibility that this is all imaginary, I find Brian Weiss' work to be more compelling for me than all of the cultural stories and imagery around reincarnation that I grew up with. His site is http://www.brianweiss.com/. Also I find it quite fitting that Dr. Weiss promotes meditation and "simply being" as the thing to do. "Messages from the Masters" is an excellent compilation of wisdom from various case studies and books by this man.
innerhike
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 4:23 am

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby Ives » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:27 pm

I agree thoroughly, Innerhike. Brian Weiss is great.

Another excellent book on this subject is Journey of Souls by Michael Newton.
In it he examines, through hypnosis, the state we exist in between lives. Fascinating stuff.
Ives
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: Tuscany, Italy

Re: Why Are We Here? - Some Insight From Beyond

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:06 pm

Have to share this NDE video with you... Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFQZQYaBL_U
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6279
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Next

Return to Beyond the Physical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest