No existence in any form after death?

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

No existence in any form after death?

Postby none » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:03 am

Once one merges with consciousness and has no form (after death), it looks like he/she exists in energy form. And some say that there is not even an energy form of existence and that one does not exist at all. This is inconceivable for my mind (what else!) and that thought (!) is quite scary. If I don't exist after realizing the truth why should I realize the truth at all? Instead I could just remain unconscious and undergo suffering (if I can't avoid it) or I could realize the truth but still take a new form every time after death (if that's possible).
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby randomguy » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:47 am

Hi None. I don't pretend to know what happens after death. But I can tell you that allowing awareness in the present moment offers one clarity that does not exist when one is fearful about the future.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby Sighclone » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:56 am

Eckhart avoids talking about existence after death. His major concern is for awakening - in fact he says in Stillness Speaks, Re-incarnation doesn't matter if in your next incarnation you still don't know who you are.

Nanci Danison's remarkable book "Backwards" is about a near death experience and some stunning discoveries which start with our being what she calls "Sourcebeams" or Light Beings...slightly separate from Source, but ever connected. As Light Beings, we enter human bodies, etc...then we leave them as the body dies.

On the other hand, if we just merge with Source at death and don't return, then the question as posed by "none" above really is why not just keep on suffering. Well, gee, suffering is unpleasant...I think I'll have another beer.

Or find a better way to make it go away.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby eputkonen » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:33 am

If you are that attached to being an individual little me and enjoy it so much, then don't realize the truth...ignore enlightenment completely.
You may have a problem with not existing in some form, but I don't.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
Blog at http://www.EngagedNonduality.com
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:12 am

none wrote:And some say that there is not even an energy form of existence and that one does not exist at all. This is inconceivable for my mind (what else!) and that thought (!) is quite scary. If I don't exist after realizing the truth why should I realize the truth at all?


Understand what the you is that doesn't exist. There is a concept of "me" that all of us have, or have had, that we perceive(d) as being a real person. But it is just a group of memories, imaginings, and beliefs that one identifies with and assumes to be a real separate person - a "me" while living in this world of form. This concept of self, when viewed in the light of awakened being, evaporates like a shadow when light is shined upon it. It had an appearance of reality only. Nothing is lost however, as it didn't exist as a reality in the first place. That is not to say there is no sense of self that persists when this conceptual persona is seen through.

Do you mourn the loss of the dream identity you had when you awoke this morning? You may remember the charactor you played with fondness or trepidation, but I doubt you would choose to accept it as a permanent identity even if you could.

There is a great deal of near death experience literature out there that can shed some light on this issue - some referenced in this forum. Nanci Danison is excellent.

Here's another great one.

http://www.mellen-thomas.com/stories.htm

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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby mistral » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:31 am

Hi None,

Don't worry, there really is no death. We may see bodies that ‘seem to die’ but there is the Self of You that will always be uniquely, divinely, you. “We” are not the body....Our Real Identity is not limited and bound inside this bag of bones. We are not this little blubbery sack pumps and organs…The Self You Are is not some little clump of accumulated conditioning and thoughts that is stuck inside that body, an can somehow be peering out at the world….That is the old ‘materialistic’ belief system that has taught you to think that ‘you’ are the body and that the body contains life...But none of that is true...The Universe is 'made of Spirit/Mind/Conscoiusness/Light which is Life Itself. The old view where we thought that we lived as an object in the world around us, a someone who got born on such and such a day and will one day die, and that space is like an empty continer and matter moves insde this container and when a body dies the supposed 'me' that lived inside there ends or goes somewhere else
Here is Always Here and Now is Always Now and that fact does not change upon 'death') You will always Be Here, That Hereness and Nowness is 'what you are'. The old materialistc view is just not so, the Universe is like Mind, and all images are ideas Within This Mind...Life is Mind, not my mind or your mind, but Life's Mind...there is no matter, its all Light, LIfe, Mind and its ideas. ...Life is subjective ..."you' are in It...It is not objective, life is not in 'you'. All bodies are within Life. Life does not die. Life is like light, darkness is powerless over light. 'Death; cannot snuff out Life. The Life/Light you are is Eternal, Infinite and Everlasting. And to top it off with a cherry, you will be always you, Divinely Uniquely the Genuine Self you are will never die. Your Real Identity exists before the world was, It exists after world. Awareness/Life goes on being all that It is and all that it is includes you.

As the old Taoists say, "With the Light of Life, there is not end.

I really think that as we become alive to the real Identity, get our heads out the fog, so to speak (and the time is certainly arriving now where more and more us are getting our heads out of the fog, each seeing Light of Truth in all kinds of wonderful ways, each in his own way, arriving at the same Light of Understanding) there won’t be any more so called appearances of ‘death’….or maybe the veil between life and death will be lifted and we will see clearly that no one we ever loved, no friend, or foe, stranger or soldier has ever died.

We will laugh at the old saying that nothing is more certain than death and taxes…taxes maybe, but not death. The time for ‘death’ in our world view is soon to be over. Maybe not soon, but sooner than we think.

I would also like to recommend a book...It is titled A GuideTo Awareness and Tranquillity by William Samuel. It’s still in print even though he wrote it many years ago. Read the chapter on ‘death’…. And I am very sure that his work, that whole book, will help you to understand more clearly what Eckhart is saying too.

Here is short excerpt from it: Dear Light of Life, Self of my Self, begin your study of Light/light. Examine light. Look at light. Enjoy light. See the light glistening on the water. See light reflected from the faces of flowers and children. See light twinkiling from the stars and from the eyes of love. See light lifting in the morning and lingering in the evening. Examine the light that darkness merely delineates. Sit still and see the wonderous Light of Life which is the source and substance of EVERYTHING. The Galilean mystic who identified as Light Itself said '...these stones shall minister unto thee....cleave a piece of wood and I am there ....Within a man of light there is light and he lights the whole world...we have come from the Light." Awareness (life) is the Light from which all things come and to which all things return even as the perfect Light of Godhead is the source and substance of Awareness. At the speed of light there is neither space nor time. At Light, Life is deathless and eternal.

Anyway, just my little (Oops, but not short ) contribution, ...as Randomguy said: I can tell you that allowing awareness in the present moment offers one clarity that does not exist when one is fearful about the future. By Jove, he's got that right!

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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby none » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:44 am

Thanks to each one of you. I read through your posts again and again and most of them make sense. I went to those links and learned something new. I'll get William Samuel's book too. Thanks again.

If anyone wants to provide more insight on this topic please do (in plain English).
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:12 pm

None, here are just a few authors to read that shed considerable light on the after-death existance. Remember, life has no opposite. The opposite of death is birth. Right now we are living life in physical/matarial form. The experience will pass, but awareness continues.

Rober Monroe

Bruce Moen

Michael Newton

Betty Eadie

Nanci Danison

Kevin Williams

Many more.

All have websites and books to review. There are mountains of information available.

Remember also that in your search, it is not for something to experience in some imagined future, it is the clarity and context that it adds to this Now moment. Life is now and is a great adventure. I find the value in this study is the perspective it adds to the importance of learning from our experiences in this environment. If it is just an intellectual "gee-whiz" it can become more ego food or cause for escapism.

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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby none » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:51 pm

Thanks Webwanderer.
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby doug » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:54 pm

life, death, energy...words that describe what we may never fully comprehend?

sometimes I feel like a kid in a playground shooting down a never ending slide that is coated with motor oil...fighting it or trying to hang on is futile so I might as well just ride and enjoy the view!
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby wander » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 pm

"That is not to say there is no sense of self that persists when this conceptual persona is seen through."


This is what i am kinda stuck on... it doenst seem like life will be interesting once one achienves the absolute. Wont my uniqueness dissapear!? i dont want that... but i dont want to suffer either...
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby Sighclone » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:30 pm

wander -

You have got to read "Backwards" by Nanci Danison. Just read it and then see what you think. Please.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby weopposedeception » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:14 am

Kenneth Ring has a few excellent books on NDE. He spent many years researching this topic.
Robert Monroe's books are intriguing, to say the least. I'll see some of you later at the orgy pile!
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby wander » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:25 am

Ah thanks andy. It looks like a fantastic book. I think i will order it tomorrow.


its intersting, my friend always said he was worried about what would happen to his personality if he was enightened , and i thought that was funny. But a few times it really seems liek it woud be boring to jsut be ONE, not separate from anything. Though i am sure im missing something
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Re: No existence in any form after death?

Postby Sighclone » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:46 am

wander -

Your question is very valid. What happens to my personality? Am I fully depersonalized, like a wigged-out robot? Not at all. From my observation of enlighened people, and conversations with some of them, the answer is a resounding "no." Your personality remains intact for the most part. If you were a really hard-ass angry person, some of that will remain, but most of the angry egoic behavior is transmuted. Leonard Jacobsen would be a good one to chat with on this - he was a tough guy litigator. You will still recognize your autopilot behaviors, but they have a new filter..the real boss...You in presence.

This is not something to worry about - just meditate, stay with nature, observe the inner body (and the painbody), and spend as much time as you can in the present moment. Don't worry about the laundry...it will still be there after the wash.

Namaste, Andy

PS - a good book on this is John Welwood's "Toward a Psychology of Awakening."
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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