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Exploring Non-Physical Realities

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:21 pm
by Webwanderer
This catagory of discussion is not intended to distract one from the essential principle of awakening and living consciously in clear presence. It is however, an opportunity to add to that presence awareness a sense of perspective that transcends a purely physical worldview. Knowing that one's experience in physical form is a temporary sojourn for some greater purpose, and that in spite of appearances through the lens of ego that the world is miserable place replete with cruel and selfish people, there is a legimate vision that makes sense of it all. Add to that the knowing that our loved ones who have passed on are not lost to us in any permanent manner, but are there waiting for us when our moment of transition comes or we have the awakened vision to see directly, and we have a useful perspective through which to live an awakened life.

There are literally thousands of people who have had near death experiences (NDE's), out of body experiences (OBE's), and lucid dreams (LD's). The research in these areas is vast indeed. You are invited to post your experiences, insights, questions and references in this intriguing area of interest.

WW

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:05 am
by Peaceman
My take on this is....I once believed in NDE until I read a scientific explanation for all the sensations that it entailed. It was a lucid explanation of the body shutting down and the neurons etc causing the effects of "light at the end of the tunnel" etc. It demolished each and every experience with a scientific cause. I find it hard to believe "being reunited with loved ones" ....I believe , as I think I might have said elsewhere, and a belief which was reinforced whilst reading Tolle, that it is "life energy" from whence we come and into which we return, and thus in that respect we do reunite with everything not just our loved ones.

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:33 pm
by Webwanderer
I have read the science on the death of the brain and how NDE's can supposedly be explained by chemical/electrical processes. But it seems more of an attempt to explain things away rather than to understand the phenomina and do actual in-depth research. There is much in the scientific world that is agenda driven. Darwinian evolution and global warming are two glaring examples of science trying to prove something based on philisophical/political agendas rather than actually following the evidence. Don't underestimate religious athiesm and the extent to which its scientific practitioners will go to defend their materialistic belief systems. If a field of study indicates the possibility of a greater spiritual system, it will be attacked with a vengence by those who have invested their lives materialism.

WW

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:13 pm
by abc123
I noticed the subject and thought of a documentary with the same name :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmNkk6ajts

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:30 pm
by autumnsphere
There is a scientific explanation for everything that's happening to an awakened person, and most of these people would be simply considered bi-polar in a manical or hyponamical episode. It's a bit insulting but hey that's life.

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:13 am
by smiileyjen101
Are you talking as an authority on awakened persons, or beyond the physical experiences Autumn? It's a little unclear, I'd love to see the statistical and empirical data supporting your assumptions either way, would be fascinating reading, seeing as 'science' has this all so figured out.

Enlighten me, please :wink:

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:16 pm
by hanss
Here is some stuff:
New Brain - New World

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:58 pm
by autumnsphere
smiileyjen101 wrote:Are you talking as an authority on awakened persons, or beyond the physical experiences Autumn? It's a little unclear, I'd love to see the statistical and empirical data supporting your assumptions either way, would be fascinating reading, seeing as 'science' has this all so figured out.

Enlighten me, please :wink:


Oh no, by no means do I want to sound as an authority. And yeah, I do have the tendency to generalize, I apologize. I'm just trying to figure out what's happening to me, and I sure have all symptoms of a hypomanic episode: endless energy and enthusiasm (it does sound like Tolle's story), grandiosity, decreased need for sleep, flight of ideas that do not seem mine. It does sound crazy.
Of course, some other awakened people might feel eternal peace or God knows what - that's just the way I feel, sorry for the over generalization.

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:32 am
by smiileyjen101
(Autumn) welcome to the wider 'world' :wink:
Don't panic, I do understand the need to understand it though, stay with me through the next bit and it may (?) help somewhat.
If you haven't read the nde, clair abilities and synchronicity thread in your current state of awareness, it may also help. By the current end of it you may see the okayness of going with it, feel free to add queries or 'noticings' to it if they arise.

Dear g*d hanns I do love you man!!! Thank you so much for that link - if you're already across their work do you have any links on genetic and otherwise studies about empathy and dopamine levels?

Because of an increased empathic state at the moment (trials and tribulations in the birth and progress of a new born - I'm a granny!!!) I've been relooking at the latest scientific thinking on empathy - awareness of energies outside of oneself - and it's causes and impacts. Yesterday I found a paper detailing new studies / research thinking on the genetics of some psycho-social issues. There are a few different studies looking at a Dopamine receptor gene (D4) one in relation to empathy levels in selfless acts or philanthropy (which is not explained by darwinian or self preserving/benefiting evolution and I do remember it being under discussion in the free will topic to a degree).

I haven't had time to fully read and explore, but interestingly this gene and dopamine levels comes up in discussion of anomolies in understanding and clinical management & ineffective or unintended harmful side effects of some drug treatments on schizophrenia, attention deficit / hyperactivity disorder, and also may link into avoidance behaviours leading to harmful substance abuse or risk taking/thrill seeking or addictions (eg gambling). I also came across that 'link' from another link in a topic here about porn addiction which led me to a parkinson's disease site listing gambling as a side effect of some drugs that change the dopamine levels in those sufferers.

At the moment I'm hoping to find info on how 'nurture' and feedback impacts on the 'nature' of those with this gene or the effects of dopamine levels. It's in embryonic stage at the moment but I'm 'excited'. My 'inkling' is that if this 'natural' genetic manifestation of empathy is supported wider awareness of suffering will lead to philanthropy or selfless pursuits (even though in a sense they will benefit by the decrease of suffering that they feel coming from outside of themself). I would also probalby suggest clairvoyance, possibly counselling etc sort of callings. If they are demonised, or punished for them then they may try to find ways to 'distract' their senses, dull them or explain them away in cultural terms that have been referenced to them (eg evil).

Scientists by this genetic info have found the link as to why some cultures are accepting of these things - and some are less so. Even more interesting that 'indigenous' cultures have had likely less 'watering down' of their original genes and it is seemingly more predominant in these groups. Even more interesting for me once colonised or interacting with other cultures - particularly those that demonise these traits, folks in these cultures tend to fall more easily prey to alcoholism or substance abuse or detrimental to self pursuits.

Autumn.. watch this space!

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:36 am
by runstrails
Thanks, Hanss. Interesting site with reasonable hypotheses. The data are not convincing but I do like their hypotheses of increased gamma activity in the frontal areas as the neurobiological marker for the awakened state.

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:41 pm
by hanss
You are welcome. I am certainly no expert but I think that these scientist are working in the old way? Genes do NOT control the behaviour in our bodies. Genes are "dead", like tools in a toolbox. There are not in control, only choosen to be activated or not. Used or not. (And there is not a specific gene for every behaviour or function like it was stated many years ago when science was looking for the genes of every specific task.) Which genes are used and activated is decided by the environment. Chemical substances, heat, cold, emotions, beliefs and thoughts. Energy... nature... air... food... surroundings and other people... the culture! A well-rooted belief (thought/mind-energy) has much more power over the choice of gen-activation than something we swallow. Or get from the doctor in a form of pills. I think these side-effects that you mention smilyejen, is a general problem with drugs. Dopamin is used for many things in the body, not only the "happy-good-feeling". The drug activates the dopamin everywhere in the body, even where it is not wanted (and cause schizophrenia for example). To be a granny activates it only were it should be activated :D

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:02 pm
by Webwanderer
Here's an interesting explanation on schizophrenia by Abraham. Rather enlightening I thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wrN5vUBjwA

WW

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:30 pm
by autumnsphere
Really interesting stuff! So we choose to be happy (haha, the old trite new age bs), but how does one choose to awaken?
I think empathy is very crucial here, empathy is the ability to feel into others, feel into everything.
As a writer, I look at words - empathy and enthusiasm are related - enthusiasm comes from ancient Greek and means swallowing God or feeling empathy with God. EN + THEOS. Funny, eh?

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:34 pm
by Webwanderer
autumnsphere wrote:Really interesting stuff! So we choose to be happy (haha, the old trite new age bs), but how does one choose to awaken?

Awakening is often the result of self-inquiry, yes? Is intentional self-inquiry not a choice that one makes for whatever reason? We encourage it on this forum repeatedly, but it requires a choice to follow that pointer. So one may not be able to awaken simply and directly by choice, but they can make the choice to pursue a course of action, self-inquiry, that results in awakening.

As to a choice to be happy - similarly, it may not be so much of a direct choice as it is a byproduct of other more accessible choices. For example: while we may not be able to choose what conditions and circumstances arise, we can choose how we perceive them.

Suppose one wakes up one morning at sunrise. It's a clear but frigid day. One person focuses on the cold air, and shivers and complains about the temperature. He/she remembers how such experiences makes the nose run and begins to fear catching cold and begins to wish for warmer weather. This person then falls into a sense of concern over how they are going to manage on such a miserable cold day. They have unconsciously chosen resistance and a consciousness restriction results.

Another person focuses on the beauty of the sunrise and the crisp clarity of the air. He/she considers the vastness of the universe and rests for a while in a deep appreciation for the beauty of life and the experience of being. A feeling of conscious expansion unfolds and a sense joy is felt as they consider the wondrous possibilities of the day.

The path to happiness and joy is really that simple. And we may not be able to choose to just be happy in any given moment, but we can choose that we want to be happy and actively take the steps in perception that are more likely to bring us in alignment with our Source and Essence. Doesn't it then follow that to be in alignment with our true nature will bring forth a joyful state? It has been so for me.

WW

Re: Beyond The Physical

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:23 am
by smiileyjen101
I think empathy is very crucial here, empathy is the ability to feel into others, feel into everything.
As a writer, I look at words - empathy and enthusiasm are related - enthusiasm comes from ancient Greek and means swallowing God or feeling empathy with God. EN + THEOS. Funny, eh?

I agree autumn... and also play with words.

Feyness means 'fenceless' which is 'funny-as' for me in terms of my empathy level linking in to areas of awareness beyond my own physical 'fences', making it fitting in this 'beyond the physical' topic.

Feeling / experiencing the effects of feyness not as a psychosis or neurosis or 'dis'order, is imho dependent upon understanding it and accepting it, as hanns notes culture is extremely important in this. As webby points out with the acceptance and understanding of it
For example: while we may not be able to choose what conditions and circumstances arise, we can choose how we perceive them.


My willingness to review and try to understand the perceptions others have of things (eg: named as dis-orders) and find 'common ground' between cultural understandings is probably in an effort to alleviate (unnecessary) suffering. That scientists are noticing that some of their hypotheses are missing something critical, and that I'm noticing that individuated research projects on different 'dis-orders' are hitting the same brick wall ... well, as I long have, I'm waiting for them to make space for this nuance of fencelessness, that they may have been misinterpreting and to take another look at the knowledge they've demonised for so long.

To be a granny activates it only were it should be activated

Hanns the researching came not out of my joy, but from my ethical dilemma when energy through the portals in the unmanifested seem to be heightened with the coming and going of whatever you call souls - energy coming into physical form. With the coming of this babe, the energy is like high voltage electricity arcing and leaking fencelessly. I'm okay with it, I'm used to it. But I have to also accommodate feelings of distress in her father who is not from this culture and having a problem with my perceptiveness, not unkindly, but also not in any way he can understand. I was hoping to find some common explanation that would explain it to him without the need for alarm or offence, but when it's been so demonised in his culture, it's difficult.

Synchronistically autumn's reasoning of 'bipolar' or other 'scientifically explainable' reasoning for feelings associated with consciousness beyond the physical 'fences' coincided with this researching and over the top of a friend explaining away anomolies in my results in a test she is doing for accrediatation as a psychologist by telling her supervisor 'she's fey'. And yet this is only acceptable to her because she knows me and she has many times witnessed or been aware of factually accurate information that have come from my acceptance of this fencelessness nature. But, she will not admit that in her paper - instead they will as if by agreement silently withold that information from the explanation of the results. In a sense continuing the cultural demonising even if by omission rather than by punishing or wrongly labelling these traits.

I am still that child who keeps putting my defenceless head up and saying 'are we there yet?' When we will get there? But, I am also aware that others may not have the acceptance or knowledge of these fenceless traits that I do and may have been wrongly labelled and treated for 'disorders'.