NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby Salem » Mon May 30, 2011 4:39 am

Hi Jen!

I asked you some questions a while ago but you said you wanted me to post them here so you could answer them publicly:

First question:

There was recently a book published called "Heaven is Real" about a young boy who had an NDE. I've never read this book, but my mom, dad and several others read it. Basically, this young child (like 5 or younger) had his NDE and the story is told from the father's words. Apparently the book takes a pretty conservative approach to Christianity; the father himself is a preacher who uses Biblical quotes to verify his son's experience, such as the son describing Jesus sitting on a throne to the right of God. The father asks how could his son know this beforehand if he hadn't seen it?

In another part the father mentions someone who's recently died. The son asks the man had Jesus in his heart and becomes quite agitated saying if he didn't know Jesus and have him in his heart, then he can't go to heaven.

What is your take on this?

Second question: You told me to ask you about a conversation you had with Jesus about suicide bombers. Okay...you have my attention! :-)
"The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love." — Meister Eckhart
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue May 31, 2011 2:30 am

Hi Salem,
the father himself is a preacher who uses Biblical quotes to verify his son's experience, such as the son describing Jesus sitting on a throne to the right of God. The father asks how could his son know this beforehand if he hadn't seen it?

In another part the father mentions someone who's recently died. The son asks the man had Jesus in his heart and becomes quite agitated saying if he didn't know Jesus and have him in his heart, then he can't go to heaven. What is your take on this?


I don't actually have a take on it. It's something I guess you'd have to ask the father and/or the son. The notion of remaining in your own cultural experience seems to be common even in NDE's and out of body experiences. I guess mine was culturally and personally relevant to me too.

The book In Heaven as on Earth (think that's what it's called) by M Scott Peck is an interesting read on this subject and seemed congruant with the knowledge I have gained. I do recommend it for a 'notional' understanding of that crossing over stage, but again remembering our journeys if not our source are individual. There is one story in there about a lady who had clothed her body in excess weight as a protection measure in the physical - even though it was unhealthy. she was loathe to let it fall away, clinging to it as her identity rather than step away/out of it to merge with the Oneness. But Scott writes it far better than I can explain here.

Second question: You told me to ask you about a conversation you had with Jesus about suicide bombers. Okay...you have my attention!

It was much the same notion, but before I'd read that book. The answer was much the same, for as long as they hold onto their person-alities things will be as they 'imagine' in limitation and in false notons. The promises they've been made will be as they imagine, but their core will find no peace in it, it is still a falseness. Eventually as they let go of the attachment to their physical individuality and beliefs only then will they find their true selves, part of the one and go through the same review in an atmosphere of love and compassion, realising - as I did with my friend's murderer, that we are all one and the things that separated us were false.

It's the 'thing' that even the personality of Hitler fades into this knowledge. So the notion of love thine enemies (because we are one with them) becomes very clearly easy in that light. Of course better not to make or hold others as enemies, because we all know that is only our ego in action.

This could be why nde and other out of body experiences are personally and culturally and linguistically relevant to the experiencer, because at that stage we do still have an attachment to the personality. In the light I was still very much my son's mother and other 'beings' represented as identities I could recognise (even if I hadn't known them in my life - eg I had never even seen my friend's murderer or even a photo of him in life).

The same could be said for discourse in clairvoyance etc that the one who is in the light slows down their frequency and shows things that can be recognisable as being from the personality they had and connections they had in this life.

I do recommend that book, I'm sure it will provide pointers and maybe yes more questions, but that's okay too.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby snowheight » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:24 am

The current episode of Morgan Freeman's "Through the Wormhole" series on the Discovery channel is on the scientific study of life after death.

If you have access they usually repeat last weeks episode the next week.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:02 pm

Brought this in from another nde thread as it 'widens'' the topic to include clair abilities and the wider discussion.
THX FOR the commentary, SmileyJen. I like it.
I have not had a NDE, but I recently had a session with a medium that removed my faith in "something bigger" and replaced it with direct knowledge.


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Re: Another Enlightening Near Death Experience
by smiileyjen101 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:13 am

Care to share zencowgirl? The NDE, (clair)abilities, sychnchronicities thread is wide enough for it and I'd love to hear about it.
I'm already 'figuring' you'll do 'this' to words
I'm always fascinated to hear others' experiences and is with the nde stories it's not just the 'event' that fascinates me, in fact it almost is insignificant how they came to it compared to the journey afterwards that's more defining and interesting for me. Like how Anita up there described the warehouse, her joy and energy and then tinged with fear again in being misunderstood and then maybe lonely... the warehouse was a wonderful analogy to bring it into 'form' 'earth' 'this dimension' and she's full of the spirit of it, but still there is that tiny 'weighed down' (and I meant to use that as it relates to gravity and 'separation') fear of loneliness and separation.


Zencowgirl said: .... that removed my faith in "something bigger" and replaced it with direct knowledge.

Somewhere else here recently I quoted Gandhi on 'faith' that resonates for me, although I know like love and hope it too gets skewed into doctrines etc
- he says/said: "Faith is not something to grasp, but a state to grow into."

If you do share on the other thread - do you think your new 'state' after your experience with the clairvoyant follows this sort of path in the sense of no-proof, but definite understanding?

The wider topic is here - viewtopic.php?f=47&t=8712&start=75Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJensmiileyjen101

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Re: Another Enlightening Near Death Experience
by ZenCowgirl » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:29 pm

well without going into the details both because they are so personal and, because they are personal, they would not mean much to anyone besides me (you would have to believe them - on faith!) let me speak of it another way.

Lets say that your mother (or loved one) adored to have, oh, salted peanuts on her ice cream. I'm just making up those particulars. Then she passes away and you tell no one about her ice cream/peanut love. Then you go to see a clairvoyant and the clairvoyant says, "Oh, they serve salted peanuts on ice cream there and in a little flowered bowl." Oh my gosh, she would love that flowered bowl, too.

Well, that's what it was like. Not only the particulars, but said from "over there" - i.e., not that she liked XYZ once - but that she still has it, "over there."

Make sense?


ZenCowgirl

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Re: Another Enlightening Near Death Experience
by smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:10 am

Makes all the sense in the world to me, it's kinda my 'normal'.

What difference did it make for you?

(again it may be better in the wider thread....)Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJensmiileyjen101


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Re: Another Enlightening Near Death Experience
by ZenCowgirl » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:36 pm

LOL - SmileyJen: you keep saying to start a new thread on this but the funny thing about this wildly spiritual experience is that it has made me more humble. I would not say that it has made me know anything in particular, but, rather, that it has made me know. This knowing is present whenever I remember it or ask for it or notice anything - so I would not say it is ever present, for sometimes I am totally aware of swimming or talking or cooking or reading - but its presence remains as certainly as, say, my hand. I am not always aware of my hand, but it has always been there, is reliably there, whenever I wish to think about it - knock on wood for my dear hand and for my dear knowing. The knowing-that-is-always-there-if-I-think-to remember-it is cozy, full, fun, wild, comforting - even wildly comforting. It simply is. In Buddha terms, I could say it is the absence of not-knowing.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:42 pm

It's 'funny' that you chose the example however randomly you did zencowgirl, it's almost the same sort of 'proof'' that my agnostic Dad received from his mother through a medium when she was reminding him that he was the only one she ever knew of eating cornflakes with orange juice (a huge embarrassment to him when he very first left home and didn't have any milk for his breakfast). He and his mother kept that a 'sacred 'secret'' between them.

Proof of ''ongoing'' life is the measure by which I think you can 'know'' with faithless energy and many fears fall away when you do.

The knowing-that-is-always-there-if-I-think-to remember-it is cozy, full, fun, wild, comforting - even wildly comforting. It simply is. In Buddha terms, I could say it is the absence of not-knowing.


Sweet isn't it?

Do you/have you noticed a rise in vibration/energy/clarity/love?

If you haven't read this thread before a page or so back is a musing about energy frequencies.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby Sighclone » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:43 am

Just a brief note to all here, especially smiileyjen -- thank you for joining and being so diligent in your illuminating comments -- I am uplifted!!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby ZenCowgirl » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:53 am

SmileyJen - To surrender is peace. What is is. Something about knowing for sure that we are in something we cannot know is sufficient. It is so clear that one can only surrender, accept, be. So, "higher" - more love - ? More real, more acceptance.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:52 am

Andy wrote: Just a brief note to all here, especially smiileyjen -- thank you for joining and being so diligent in your illuminating comments -- I am uplifted!!


Thank you Andy I am grateful to be here and appreciate everyone for participating in the dance of energies that makes the light shine.

Zencowgirl: It is so clear that one can only surrender, accept, be. So, "higher" - more love - ? More real, more acceptance.

:) And from that acceptance, put joy into and then enthusiasm for... with love.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby ZenCowgirl » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:23 am

um - wow. I just spent the last hour reading the six pages of this thread. I read it fast, and I could read it all again. I had been following this at the start when it was only a page and a half - so many weeks or months ago - and even sent the URL to two close friends back then. Then I lost track - and I see now how on and on it goes. Thank you for diligent conversation. It is a gift. And how funny to learn that SmileySalem had conversations with dear Ananda. SmileySalem, what's that in your right hand? A chicken?

OK, I have not added anything about nde - just sighs and whispers of thread appreciation, so I'll end with this smiileyjen quote:

Everything in the ‘heavens’ is replicated in some form here on Earth for all to see and to know, if they understand the oneness.


smiileyjen, I have had so many times when laughter or hoorays or lights or this or that which seemed to be "in" the adjacent experience seemed also to me to be for "me" in the experience I seemed to be having even though at those moments one knows that there is only "one" and there is no "personal" "experience." (Oh, are there enough quotes to use 'round all the words that cannot really mean what they mean to mean?) Remember how in the wonderful "Bruce Almighty" picture, the Jim Carrey character who believed in nothing said, "I just want a sign, I just want a sign." And then a truck rolled by with its truckbed full to bursting with ... signs. That was hilarious, and particularly hilarious to me for when I first broke out of "reality" into reality and I was feeling that the world was as close to me as a mother's tit and that everything was united and that the other side of the world was as close to me as my breath, a truck rolled past with huge letters on it: M I L K.

I was listening to this Rupert Somebody or other last night on conscious.tv and he reported how his son really wanted . . . I think it was a basketball for a present and when he got the basketball he rushed into his father and said, "Oh, father, it feels so good to get what you wanted." Rupert interpreted that as the son being aware of awareness of the desire to be aware.

We all want the same thing: to be aware of awareness. Yes yes yes.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:47 am

zencowgirl said: Remember how in the wonderful "Bruce Almighty" picture, the Jim Carrey character who believed in nothing said, "I just want a sign, I just want a sign." And then a truck rolled by with its truckbed full to bursting with ... signs. That was hilarious, and particularly hilarious to me for when I first broke out of "reality" into reality and I was feeling that the world was as close to me as a mother's tit and that everything was united and that the other side of the world was as close to me as my breath, a truck rolled past with huge letters on it: M I L K.


:lol: Love it zengirl!!!

It reminded me.. (so much in LOA) when I was a kid we were driving along a long, windy, highland road, so slowly behind a milk truck twisting and turning painfully slow, crunching through the gears on the up and down slopes, twists and turns, and my Mum said: "Wish this lorry would get out of our way, I'm dying of thirst".

Right then the hose on the back of the truck sprang loose from its mooring and milk sprayed all over our windscreen blinding my Dad's vision, who immediately yelled at Mum... "Couldn't you have waited?" as he swerved all over trying to find the road while my Mum and all of us were in absolute hysterics.

:lol: Talk about the power of NOW!
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:06 am

And in synchronicity ... this is near perfect. While you were reading and posting zengirl, I was randomly watching an 'unpicked' show on television. It turned out to be an absolute gem in light of discussions in the '...and other laws' thread (if this one has you sighing and aha-ing I can't wait to see what happens for you in that one).

I quickly captured my 'thoughts' (pasted below) on the programme before looking in here and finding your post waiting here...

...www.cheeseslices.tv

Alpine cheeses – the simply beautiful explanation and portrayal in the geographic majesty of the French / Suisse Alps of the patient and willing application of obedience to the laws of seasons, patterns, processes to create the magnificent alpine cheeses. From the colder temperatures of the alpine air, feeding the grasses maturing in the Alpine summer after the long, snow-covered winters, the cows distinct in their breeding and suitability to their environment, feeding on the grasses, processing the milk internally then giving in co-operation, then processed either by hand in time honoured ways, or with the assistance with machines engineered to replicate (not improve) the process.

Maturing the cheeses with respect for their bounty in youth, or in age, and presenting either uncooked or simply cooked for tasting in focussed appreciation – not in an express dinner while watching television, but where the focus breathes in and appreciates the elements combined to perfection.

Through time honoured maturity of the wisdom, the bounty of the cheeses express their individuality by the combining of the elements, brought gently in their own time to maturity.

One quote that grabbed me was in the balancing of the ‘decline’ of appetite in the younger generations of farming and cheese-making families to continue to work long and hard hours to provide these fruits of loving labour.

They started to move away for 'easier' and more 'lucrative' careers, making the older farmers wonder what would become of the traditional ways, but continuing on regardless of whether it had a 'future' or not.

Lately they've noticed 'consumers' are turning in the ‘value’ they place on such fine fare, as it becomes less common, more rare, their willingness to ‘pay’ for the fruits of these labours is increasing – likely to make the ‘proposition’ once more appetising.

The quote can be, for me, likened to the growing valuing of the natural order of things with regard to experiences of life, which in turn allows us to recognise the natural order of things as having value, and learning to honour it.

A cheese-maker said: paraphrasing - The cycle is changing. We are growing tired of ‘quantity’ produced in sterile comfort; we have had enough of ‘quantity’ and again are looking towards ‘quality’, which requires the full process to be followed. And so, it may continue.

...

Mass produced experiences, and widely swinging but shallow experiences miss the essential ingredients of patience for things to mature deeply; acknowledging, honouring and caring for all the elements combining in patterns, in their own seasons and in result produces a hollow, shallow, tasteless, indistinct, blandness of life, that life itself ‘notices’ and hungers once again for the depth in taste, smell, texture, wisdom and ahem, discipline that provides nourishment of and for the creation of a maturing life.


The other 'noticing' when I took the web-site details to look at later - the .tv in the web address is the domain name of a tiny island nation Tuvalu, that is sinking with the rising sea levels created by 'industrialisation' of far distant other countries. It's economy and culture was sinking too, then along came the internet and domain names. It sold interests in the popular domain .tv to 'prop up' it's economy. Two 'bastions' of modernity - television and the internet provided a $50 million windfall in royalties....

.... stranger than fiction, aint it?
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby Salem » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:25 am

Hi ZenCowgirl,

I honestly forgot that I had named myself SmileySalem. It's kind of ironic since I'm often reminded by my parents that I don't smile often! Although I think I smile quite a bit more now that I know myself more as the Self and not a body and mind and so on.

Also, where did I say I spoke with Ananda/Did I say what we talked about in that instance? I ask not to put you on the spot, but simply because I looked over this thread and couldn't find the occasion! Hehe.

Actually, I have a chicken in BOTH hands. A hen and one of her chicks. I've developed a fondness for animals, even if they haven't all developed a fondness for me (the hens were never happy when I picked them up or kidnapped one/several of their brood to play with. Those little critters belonged to a family I lived with while I lived in Peru for a couple of years. Feeding the animals out of my hand, having them peck rice or corn was a simple and true pleasure for me. Also, you wouldn't think of this, but putting your hand under a hen while she's perched in her nest to feel the eggs or the nesting chicks, those things are little furnaces! I was shocked by how warm their fluffy bodies are.

Anyway, I'm sure that's more information then you wanted and probably doesn't add much to this thread! :-)
"The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love." — Meister Eckhart
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby ZenCowgirl » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:37 am

ha ha the milk in the face made me laugh out loud, smiilyjen

I was sitting on a hill in Berkeley my first February - I thought it was heaven. I grew up back East, and it was the first time I was warm enough all my life. I truly thought it was heaven. It looked like heaven, felt like heaven, smelled like heaven - then someone kept calling "Jacob, Jacob." Well, Jacob turned out to be a dog, but dog = god. Oh my - dogs are now barking in the movie I have queued up - V for Vendetta.

Well that night or the next night even my Yoga teacher who lived next door thought I was floating out too far for ... for something. too far too soon or something. He advised I go eat a steak. So I went home (next door) and the phone rang. It was Peter, whom I'd just met - in a coincidence, of course. Peter said, "I've got a steak in the freezer. Should I thaw it out?" I don't think he even said "hello." Just: I've got a steak.

ha ha - here we are on a spiritual forum talkin' steak and milk. these kinds of things are often poo poo'd by skeptics because they say we notice the ones we notice and we forget the times that meaning falls flat. But when they are electrifying coincidences, it does not seem that way because they take place in a context of - how can I say it. Of density. Of when the world is full - full? well, there are no words for it, for it's full of both things and emptiness -- but a "close" emptiness with the feeling in that it is all full - interconnected - not that emptiness that we feel when we are focused on separation and how we are all alone in a world of "other". Dunno how to say it, smiileyjen, but I suspect you know what I am talking about.

... AND HERE IT IS AN HOUR LATER - i THOUGHT that I had hit "submit" on this - but I see that the smiilies have both responded whilst i was watching the first half of V for Vendetta. Um, smiley salem I am not going to go back and find it for you - it's so long - but it's in there somewhere, the ananda name. Twice, in fact. Though I wrote this an hour ago, I am only posting now.
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby hanss » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:15 am

Thank you for sharing. This is fun, a new world has opened up. I was out walking late last night. I passed by the "old outdoor community center". Old houses and stuff. I noticed they had a lot of chickens in a big cage. I stoppped to look at them and I saw even more hiding, about 50 of them I guess. Right now I'm reading at the back of a youghurt-package. (Have not done that since I was a kid). It says that the kids of the great blue whale can drink up to 500 liters of milk in a day :)
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
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Re: NDE, Clair (abilties), synchronicity

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:05 pm

:D Isn't the glorious, yesness of synchronicity 'acceptance' so gorgeous in it's depth!!

This is fullness of awareness and connectedness!! I am laughing zenCowgirl needs.... steak!!! :lol:
I was online answering your post zengirl when Salem msgd me and I told him you'd posted, that he then went onto to describe the beautiful depth of sharing his reciprocal experience of the joy of warmth of a chicken on his hand, after the joy of 'giving' them food from the same hand ---- YUM!!

synchronicity of nature at work and us BEING aware in joy....
Cow~God~signs~mother's tit~MILK~expressing desperate need~receiving immediately MILK
~farmers~cheese from MILK ~cycles~maturity~chickens~giving~eggs~receiving warmth ~dogs/god ~friends~ steak ~ scepticism and knowing, followed by more chickens than we imagine~ seeing clearly (and which comes first? the noticing or being?) ~ yoghurt ~ whales (yum) ~ suckling young ~ MILK.

the 'thing' that might seem 'unrelated' here... ~whales~ and young...
... earlier today I posted this in the spiritual practices thread ...
The interesting 'noticing' is even if with a little 'resistance' (the needle piercing through the fabric of life) I take a breath of 'air', like a sea going mammal before diving down to the depths of the .... nothing-ness, which is not 'nothingness' at all, but a limitedness in the 'seeing/standing under' of the all.

I was thinking a number of things with this, the magnificence of a Blue Whale I saw once breaching halfway to the horizon and disappearing for ages underwater, and the 'nothing' of the middle pea soup when scuba diving at any depth - the light penetrates the top and reflects an amazing 'other world' at the bottom, but the bit in-between is 'pea soup' nothing in visibility;

before seemingly 'out of the blue' (in my own mind) mentioning how amazing I think it is that babies don't need to breathe in the water of the womb until they come into 'this world'.

(and Tuvalu is being slowly taken back into the sea.)

hanss said: This is fun, a new world has opened up.

:) we wouldn't have to look to far back in the LoA thread to find the bit where you said 'fun' was how you wanted to know the way the LoA works. This world has always been here, waiting for you to see it. Maybe you had to 'know' you wanted it so you could express that and 'appreciate' it.

hanss: ...Right now I'm reading at the back of a youghurt-package. (Have not done that since I was a kid).

Why ever did you stop? :P

Namaste baby!!! Enjoy the wild ride!

all we need now is for Ananda to appear ...
:)
zencowgirl said: it's in there somewhere, the ananda name. Twice, in fact.
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