Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Is he enlightened? Why does he charge so much money? Does he have an ego? All these unimportant issues and more =)
Post Reply
User avatar
shivak
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by shivak » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:55 pm

erict wrote:So if someone dedicate his life to teaching, he should be destitute? And if he is to take money for it, he should only spend it on what society approves of, his students, or just you?
I'm not saying Tolle should do it for free,
I'm saying the teaching necessary to liberate oneself should be freely available to everyone.

Tolle clearly makes a lot of money... much more money than a person needs to survive comfortably.

I don't really care all that much,
but I guess the question "What happens to the millions of dollars he makes?" is not such a bad one. :P
What do you do for a living, shivak? Do you do it for free?
I don't have a job, because I am still "studying".
The money I make is just enough to survive. :P
"The mind is there to show you what is not real." - Nisargadatta Maharaj

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6744
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by Webwanderer » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:54 am

I am very appreciative for what Tolle has done to bring awakening to the world and to me personally. What's more I genuinely wish him well in his finances and material well being. For that matter I wish everyone abundance in life on all levels. Life however, is much wiser than I, and may see the need for specialized conditions for the awakening of forms in a variety of environments, and those conditions may entail various degrees of deprivation. I'll trust that the way things are with others serves a purpose beyond my mind's ability to comprehend, and stay focused where I can do the most good.

Again, thank you Eckhart Tolle for the wonderful service you have brought to our world.

Sandiegojoereal
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:36 am

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by Sandiegojoereal » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:16 am

Its worth it. Don't eat for a week. Go.

truthseekingseeker
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:33 pm

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by truthseekingseeker » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:43 pm

Thanks for censoring me. I posted a strong reply here yesterday about Tolle being a hypocrite (choosing to accumulate all this money which is a tell tale sign of a big ego), but you took it down. Not sure why.

User avatar
shivak
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by shivak » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:53 pm

truthseekingseeker wrote:Thanks for censoring me. I posted a strong reply here yesterday about Tolle being a hypocrite (choosing to accumulate all this money which is a tell tale sign of a big ego), but you took it down. Not sure why.
There's different possibilities... we don't know where the money goes,
so it's too early to say ET has a "big ego".

Maybe he uses the money to help the world become a better place,
in that case it's better if people give their money to him than to things they don't need.
Last edited by shivak on Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The mind is there to show you what is not real." - Nisargadatta Maharaj

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6744
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by Webwanderer » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:02 pm

truthseekingseeker wrote:Thanks for censoring me. I posted a strong reply here yesterday about Tolle being a hypocrite (choosing to accumulate all this money which is a tell tale sign of a big ego), but you took it down. Not sure why.
How is this helpful to anyone? Here you are on a website primarily dedicated to Tolle's teachings - teachings that have helped many find their way out of years of ignorance and suffering - and you join just to express your anger? Why bother? What's in it for you?

I'm not really interested in your answers to these questions, they are merely for your own self reflection. However, you will not last long here if you have only personal attacks to offer.

User avatar
sarasvati
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:05 am
Location: Lodz, here and now

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by sarasvati » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:20 pm

Buddha left his son and wife to seek enlightenment which is ok, he was still not liberated, can be forgiven :-) but did he return after his awakening to be a father to the boy? Isn't that a 'worse scenario' to disappoint your child and wife than to earn a lot of money?
Is it wrong to have more money than you can spend? Or maybe he is showing us that we don't need him. Let's trust the man to do what he needs with his cash.
Osho was also controversial even though he never actually owned any of the stuff he was surrounded with. But he understood that being controversial and provocative is going to get people's attention, so in that sense he was a big humanist - he didn't keep it to himself - he shared even though the methods might be questionable. If he never mentioned free sexuality and didn't display 'his' wealth nobody would remember him now. He laughed at the ascetic gurus who were torturing themselves, people used to think that sitting facing a wall for days makes it more possible.
Even mother Theresa did not escape critisism - apparently she was doing it for fame after it has been established that she did not in fact have a Swiss bank account :-)
You either feel inside his teachings are true or you're nitpicking.
A.x
'Silence is the language of God, everything else is bad translation'

truthseekingseeker
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:33 pm

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by truthseekingseeker » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:56 am

Would appreciate if you could let your members judge the value of my writing here. Perhaps they have spiritual insights on these points.

Like I said previously, I attended a Tolle event in San Francisco about 4 years ago. I was totally open minded going in. What struck me as a major slap in the face was the segregated seating arrangement. He had tiers of seating: gold circle seating and platinum seating, with proximity based on how much you pay, with the inner circle being at least $150 per seat. It's so ironic that his MAIN message is one of liberation from the ego and self center, YET he is PRECISELY emphasizing the ego by this rediculous arrangement. And how could he not see that? And after the lecture, there was a special line only for the highest paying attendees, who would have a chance to meet with him briefly. What message does this all send? Yes, many people here will say that you should not judge the message by the messenger. That might be true for subjects such as physics, math, computer science, biology, tax law, etc, where the writing can truly stand on its own and be evaluated that way. But this is one of a few subject areas where the state of the messenger is CRITICAL. Why? Because he's claiming to be a WITNESS of that state, of that land. If he's not really there, then his teachings are greatly suspect. So it is absolutely natural and correct to look at this behaviour and how he treats people as a baseline clue into his potential state. And yes, money reveals a great deal about that, particularly when he has the "choice" of charging so much less and in fact providing his teachings for free.

You ask what my motivation for writing this is? I am a truth seeker. I have high standards. I point out glaring and flagrant contradictions and inconsistencies such as these, which can add to peoples' suffering. I definitely believe in higher states of awareness and spiritual growth. But many new age "spiritual teachers" have hijacked the issue of ego transcendence and warped it into something it is not, or vastly exaggerated it's scope. They often offer mixed and confusing definitions of ego, which seem quite self serving to me.

Here's a much better definition of ego that gets to the truth of this matter: If you so much as live and breathe, you have a baseline ego. Your organism wishes to survive. That survival at some level, necessarily competes with other organisms and beings, albeit this can be greatly minimized. But it's still there. If you so much as breathe one breath, there's some level of desire in that action. It's crazy to argue otherwise. Extreme conditions can very quickly get to the heart of the matter as well. Prevent a person from breathing and watch what will happen. You will see EGO ensue. Tolle would exhibit the same. He'd struggle and try to survive at some level. That's ego, sorry. Yet he and many others continue to give this impression that you can somehow ascend onto a cloud and be beyond all this. You can't. There are human limits. So I believe there are just degrees of ego, not a fundamental radical elimination as Tolle would have you believe. And I feel it actually causes people on here and in the world serious harm sending that false and hypocritical message, one that he's amply demonstrated.

User avatar
sarasvati
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:05 am
Location: Lodz, here and now

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by sarasvati » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:28 am

I'm also wondering, he's done a lot of talks and retreats and usually answers questions: Has anyone asked him about it?
'Silence is the language of God, everything else is bad translation'

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6744
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:07 am

My congratulations truthseekingseeker on your wiser approach to discussing your concerns. (Refraining from personal attacks and name-calling is an improvement in civility.) Not that I agree with your characterizations, I don't. I'm not sure what concerns you more, the price structure of his talks, or your concept of how Tolle defines ego.
truthseekingseeker wrote:Here's a much better definition of ego that gets to the truth of this matter...
Much better than what? Can you quote Tolle on his definition of ego? He's stated it many times in many ways.
...If you so much as live and breathe, you have a baseline ego.
Is this a definition of ego? It seems just a recognition of it's appearance. Please clarity with your own understanding of what ego is. I'm not interested in a quote from someone else, I'm asking about yours. Don't tell me what it does, tell me what it is.
So I believe there are just degrees of ego, not a fundamental radical elimination as Tolle would have you believe.
It seems I remember Tolle stating on multiple occassions that the disolution of ego, for most, is a gradual process, in fact rarely happens radically.
And I feel it actually causes people on here and in the world serious harm sending that false and hypocritical message, one that he's amply demonstrated.
Wow, I know you're "new" here, but have you read the endless accounts, on this forum alone, of people who were liberated from entrapping beliefs by following in their own lives the teachings of Tolle. How do you think Tolle's books sold so many millions of copies if not for the benefit his readers gained? He would not be giving talks on the scale that he does if not for the great numbers of people who were awakened by his teaching.

There is something in his message that touches certain people deeply and wakens them to a reality that conceptual thinking and eroneous beliefs had previously obscured from them. I am deeply sorry that you have missed the freedom that his teaching offers. You are not alone, there are others who have yet to see it as well. It's just a reality that somes seeds grow and others do not. The good news is that clarity in the present moment is always available. Make a clear distinction between the judgemental blabbering of the mind and the awareness that recognizes it and awakening is at hand.

I would encourage you to not give up, but spend some time in silent prayer that the truth of your essential nature becomes clear to you. If you are genuine in your desire, and are patient and open to whatever the truth may be, I'm confident that clarity will dawn.

EDIT: I just watched the Tolle/Oprah lesson 3. It's main theme was ego, in which Tolle defined and discribed it a number of ways. If you missed it, and your interested in what Tolle says about it, it may help you clarity your concerns over any damage it may cause. The download will be available tomorrow, 3/18/08.

User avatar
Onceler
Posts: 2257
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:35 am
Location: My house

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by Onceler » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:41 am

Is what Tolle does with his money my business? Is what I do with my money, what you do with yours anyones business? If someone started criticizing what I charged or spent for something, I would say to them that's not your business, please back off.

Why is what Tolle does anyone's business? The only reason I can think of is that he becomes part of one's identity; they either define themselves by, "he's like me" or "he's not like me"--"he's right" or "he's wrong".

I see him as a conduit. Copper, silver, and gold are great conducters of energy and information.

Judge the message, not the conduit.

(the people that pay the higher prices and have more access may need Tolle more than the common folk in the cheap seats)
Be present, be pleasant.

User avatar
shivak
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by shivak » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:51 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Wow, I know you're "new" here, but have you read the endless accounts, on this forum alone, of people who were liberated from entrapping beliefs by following in their own lives the teachings of Tolle. How do you think Tolle's books sold so many millions of copies if not for the benefit his readers gained? He would not be giving talks on the scale that he does if not for the great numbers of people who were awakened by his teaching.
It's not because Tolle has helped people, that he is not overcharging.

"He had tiers of seating: gold circle seating and platinum seating, with proximity based on how much you pay, with the inner circle being at least $150 per seat"
And that was 4 years ago, how much is the price in 2008 ?

Is it not clear he is overcharging?
I don't really care where the money goes, but if ET is right in his actions then I guess he should have no reason to hide
where his millions of dollars go to. To who, where and why? :P




But indeed, even if all the money ET makes flows into "negative activities"...
that doesn't change the fact there is a lot of truth in what he teaches... and that many have been helped by him.

I actually suspect that ET uses his money wisely. :idea:
I also see the possibility that he has "masters who made him big" who expect him to continue making money for him.

Then again, I don't really care... so this was the last time I answered in this thread. :arrow:
"The mind is there to show you what is not real." - Nisargadatta Maharaj

User avatar
coriolis
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:51 pm

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by coriolis » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:37 pm

truthseekingseeker wrote: Like I said previously, I attended a Tolle event in San Francisco about 4 years ago. I was totally open minded going in. What struck me as a major slap in the face was the segregated seating arrangement. He had tiers of seating: gold circle seating and platinum seating, with proximity based on how much you pay, with the inner circle being at least $150 per seat. It's so ironic that his MAIN message is one of liberation from the ego and self center, YET he is PRECISELY emphasizing the ego by this rediculous arrangement. And how could he not see that? And after the lecture, there was a special line only for the highest paying attendees, who would have a chance to meet with him briefly. What message does this all send? Yes, many people here will say that you should not judge the message by the messenger. That might be true for subjects such as physics, math, computer science, biology, tax law, etc, where the writing can truly stand on its own and be evaluated that way. But this is one of a few subject areas where the state of the messenger is CRITICAL. Why? Because he's claiming to be a WITNESS of that state, of that land. If he's not really there, then his teachings are greatly suspect. So it is absolutely natural and correct to look at this behaviour and how he treats people as a baseline clue into his potential state. And yes, money reveals a great deal about that, particularly when he has the "choice" of charging so much less and in fact providing his teachings for free.
If the above is true, I have to agree with truthseekingseeker-- Either Eckhart Tolle does not practice what he preaches or allows those whose primary interest is money to micro-manage his events for their own profit. This makes no difference in the truth to which he has pointed but it will ensure his eventual downfall as a "teacher of enlightentment" if his motives for doing it turn out to be (in deed if not in word) the same as those of Pat Robertson, Jim and Tammy Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton and a host of other "Christians" who are absolutely convinced that without lots of money "God" is as impotent as a clod of dirt.

In chapter four of "A New Earth" on page 94 Tolle relates the story of Kasan:

"Kasan, A Zen teacher and monk, was to officiate at a funeral of a famous nobleman.
As he stood there waiting for the governor of the province and other lords and ladies to arrive, he noticed that the palms of his hands were sweaty.
The next day he called his disciples together and confessed he was not yet ready to be a true teacher.
He explained to them that he still lacked the sameness of bearing before all human beings, whether beggar or king.
He was still unable to look through social roles and conceptual identities and see the sameness of being in every human."

By Kasan's standards Eckhart Tolle is not yet ready to be a true teacher.

This is a good in the long run, I believe, as it will ensure that Tolle is never able to eclipse the truth by seeming to be a "true teacher" when he's really just as easily misled as any of the rest of us.

If that much fame and money came my way after living for many years in relative poverty and obscurity I have no doubt that I too would have difficulty regaining my balance.

Call it an unintentional insurance policy against "guru worship".

Maybe it's all part of the plan :lol:
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

User avatar
BrahmanEternal
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by BrahmanEternal » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:07 pm

We can keep picking straws some straws are there to pick , but i disagree with coriolis, from what i saw in these webcasts he treats every person with compassion and respect, last night i saw tolles human side when Kidada called if anyone remembers, that was the first time he seemed to feel out of balance, he seems to have some of his own doubts and insecurities like the rest of us mortals, but for him its a just a fun ride in park with a few masquitos trying to bite him before he slaps them while the rest of us take life much more seriously.
One thing is for sure, his teachings are brilliant and as crystally clear. He turned Bibble and Bhavad Gita into a clearest, perfectly articulate and powerful book that anybody can use to transform his life in every aspect of it, for this he has my bow.
Free of need to be Free.

User avatar
erict
Site-Admin
Site-Admin
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Israel
Contact:

Re: Not sure what to think re: very high prices for Tolle events

Post by erict » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:05 pm

I almost wish for incontrovertible proof of Eckhart Tolle's immorality. (Even though the very subject of morality itself is completely subjective, and could be debated until the end of time.) None of you really knows why his talks cost this much, or what he does with his money. But let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that he's as greedy as a human being can be. What does that change? For those whose relationship to his teachings changes because of anything to do with the "teacher", obviously it was a superficial relationship to begin with, based not on the value of the teachings alone but on the perception of the teacher.

Is there even such a thing as a human being whose morality is infallible? The very concept is ridiculous upon any kind of scrutiny.

Is it still immoral to charge big sums of money from those who willingly give it, if you use that money to heal the ill? Is it moral to spend your money on healing the ill, while there are those who are starving? And who is to decide the right set of moral codes?
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."

Post Reply