Money

Is he enlightened? Why does he charge so much money? Does he have an ego? All these unimportant issues and more =)

Re: Money

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:52 am

I respect your opinion but to me that sounds naive. The Dalai Lama himself says that people should question and test things out... if ET says he is enlightened but is driving around in a BMW and drinking every night etc then it would point to the fact that whilst some things may sound wonderful they may not be true and therefore the signpost is pointing in the wrong direction no matter how great it sounds... I have had many nights when after a bottle of wine i feel fantastic does this mean that drinking a bottle of wine is good for me...many cult leaders sounded fantastic... hence their following. I think ET would say that the mind is a tool and we should use it... we should question etc... I for one will not stop following the signposts he hasd put out but I would like some reassurance.


But I'm not concerned with whether or not Tolle is enlightened, nor any other teacher including the Dalai Lama. None are responsible for what I choose, or choose not, to accept. As to being naive, if so that too is my responsibility, as would be any cynicism if I held unfounded judgments based on imaginings. If I'm fooled by emotions of enlightenment, then I have a lesson to be learned and I welcome it. Just one more opportunity to put concepts asside in favor of perceptual freedom.

I think most of us have read books that aided in enhancing our clarity, not to mention the many wise and wonderful insights that come through this very forum, without knowing the backround of the authors. Should one investigate these authors before deciding if their offerings have merrit? What is the final measure of value?

Why is the teaching not free?


For the most part it is, or at least the inexpensive cost of a book. The internet is filled with free teachings from most of these fine authors, even from their own websights.

WW
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Re: Money

Postby OnthePath » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:13 am

Webwanderer, we shouldn't forget that most of us are not awakened yet and not exposed to many years of presence or meditation practice. Most of us again see what our mind tells us to see and until we're completely awakened and our ego has completely dissolved, we will still be interested in the world of form. That being said, not getting attached to the teachers' personal life is something, ignoring the fact that they are abusive and do as if nothing happened is something else (here again, I'm not talking about ET) As long as we're not fully realized, the teachers' behavior is important to us. It reminds me of a student who saw her spiritual teacher(who was very popular) hit a dog and then look around to see if someone had seen him or not. Would it be easy for her to attend his teachings and hear him talk about love and kindness? I understand that what's important is the teachings and not the teacher but for me studying with an abusive teacher is just like learning a foreign language from a teacher who knows all the grammatical rules of that language but who can barely speak it.
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Re: Money

Postby OnthePath » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:40 am

whitman77 wrote:If the message is so important why are the teachings all not available for free on the web? Initially this would be almost impossible as there is a cost and therefore money must be generated in order to do so. Now there is money. If the money is going towards a charity or towards education I would be happy.


When I see him on DVDs and how he could change the world, I always think that it would be a great idea if he could give seminars from time to time that everybody could attend(everybody who resonates with his teachings I mean). I personally would love to attend his seminars or retreats but they are too expensive for me, but at the same time I feel so lucky that I could listen to most of his CDs and DVDs and read all his books without having to buy them thanks to the library(except for the PON which I bought)
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Re: Money

Postby OnthePath » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:41 am

OnthePath wrote:
whitman77 wrote:If the message is so important why are the teachings all not available for free on the web? Initially this would be almost impossible as there is a cost and therefore money must be generated in order to do so. Now there is money. If the money is going towards a charity or towards education I would be happy.


When I see him on DVDs and see the effect he has on people, I always think that it would be a great idea if he could give seminars from time to time that everybody could attend(everybody who resonates with his teachings I mean). I personally would love to attend his seminars or retreats but they are too expensive for me, but at the same time I feel so lucky that I could listen to most of his CDs and DVDs and read all his books without having to buy them thanks to the library(except for the PON which I bought)
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Re: Money

Postby kiki » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:23 am

I would just like to know where all the money goes.


More important than this is to recognize how this "I" remains that drives such questions. Use that question to investigate further into who "You" really are. It is these ego driven questions that keep the ego spinning away. See what goes into keeping that ego going and identified with as opposed to what is actually real and present. Then see what happens to all questions.
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Re: Money

Postby borris83 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:41 am

There are two kinds of books related to awakening...

1) A book which seems to be a crap just after reading it and we don't even care to know who the author is..
2) A book which talks about something significant, gives a lot of clarity. And, definitely most of us want to know about the author and his life...



The first one stops right there but the second kind makes us to read continuously about the author, and we want to know more about him because our mind thinks that that is how an enlightened life for 'me' is going to be...

After knowing about the author, we may find any on of these two things...

1) The author's life in unquestionable.. He doesn't charge money for his teachings, doesn't abuse anyone for sure and there has been not many who complain about him (I say 'not many' because the history has never seen a person in humanity who has not been badly criticized by even a single human being in the world)

2) The author's life rises questions... Something that he has done or doing doesn't seem to be fair.. There still seems to be a selfish reason behind what he does.

The first one again doesn't create any problem... But the second one does...





After the second case is seen, four things may happen...

1) Mind may say that the author hasn't realized the truth and he is simply parroting what he has read.. Or he has thought about these things and somehow wrote it down in a book. Mind will be closed to the author because he cannot guide as to realization when he himself has not realized..

And you start believing this thought


2) Mind may blindly believe that the author is good and tries to prove that what he is doing is not unfair... Mind is not ready to go against the good faith that it already has on the author..

And you start believing this thought

3) Mind will conclude that the ultimate realization of truth doesn't end the desires or selfishness completely... It alters its belief about the truth than altering the belief about the author..

And you start believing this thought

4) Mind may do any of the above mentioned things... It may either think for or against the author or alter it's belief about enlightenment..

But you don't believe those thoughts..



The fourth one from the above is the most uncomfortable state among all the four... But being in the uncomfortable state of not coming to any conclusion is really worth it... There are a lot of 'little me's inside an individual, each one of them might be saying something against the other 'little me's opinion and the struggle goes on.. But none of these 'little me's are who I really am.
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Re: Money

Postby OnthePath » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:15 pm

kiki wrote:More important than this is to recognize how this "I" remains that drives such questions. Use that question to investigate further into who "You" really are. It is these ego driven questions that keep the ego spinning away. See what goes into keeping that ego going and identified with as opposed to what is actually real and present. Then see what happens to all questions.

Kiki, does that mean that everytime we see something unethical or dishonest we should ignore it and instead do an introspective work on us and ask the question: who is feeling that?
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Re: Money

Postby Marcel Franke » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:22 pm

W77:
>When i see the cost of his seminars and his books
>I am just curious to know where all this money is going.
>If anyone could help with this question I would appreciate it.

No, sorry, cant help, and dont care.
Who am I to judge if God comes in the form of a conman ?
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Re: Money

Postby borris83 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:33 pm

Kiki, does that mean that everytime we see something unethical or dishonest we should ignore it and instead do an introspective work on us and ask the question: who is feeling that?


It doesn't matter whether you ignore it or react to it... But the quest for the truth will again put you back into questioning 'who is it that ignores?', 'who is reacting to it, who am I?... But when we repeatedly hear the words which try to turn us inwards, we may get frustrated with the words... But still, what is more important is inquiring who I really am?

Questioning unethical or dishonest things in the world is not wrong... But it is less important for the person who wants to know the truth.

Working on the arguments, opinions and all the inner struggle is similar to working on a tree on its branches... Self-inquiry is finding the root of the tree..
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Re: Money

Postby kiki » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:43 pm

Kiki, does that mean that everytime we see something unethical or dishonest we should ignore it and instead do an introspective work on us and ask the question: who is feeling that?


The bottom line is always this: what is actually real? Is it the one who thinks he perceives and then interprets things one way or another or what You are? Where is perspective coming from, the "me" or "You" as you really are? To "ignore" the "unethical or dishonest" implies the perspective of a limited being that is still being identified with. What "You" are is Being itself - Being has no interpretation, applies no label of ethic or honesty. Therefore, everything "out there" becomes an invitation for deeper investigation into what is actually true and what is imagined to be happening. Has perspective shifted back into an imagined "me" or does "perspective" remain fixed in the only true starting point, "You" as you truly are?

Questioning unethical or dishonest things in the world is not wrong... But it is less important for the person who wants to know the truth.

Well said, Borris.
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Re: Money

Postby OnthePath » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:48 pm

borris83 wrote:
It doesn't matter whether you ignore it or react to it... But the quest for the truth will again put you back into questioning 'who is it that ignores?', 'who is reacting to it, who am I?... But when we repeatedly hear the words which try to turn us inwards, we may get frustrated with the words... But still, what is more important is inquiring who I really am?


Borris, I inquired and found out that it's the ego or the mind that is asking the question. Now my ego still wants to know where the money goes, just out of curiosity.
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Re: Money

Postby OnthePath » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:03 pm

kiki wrote:The bottom line is always this: what is actually real? Is it the one who thinks he perceives and then interprets things one way or another or what You are? Where is perspective coming from, the "me" or "You" as you really are?


Can't we do both? Inquiring about the ego and questionning dishonest behavior? ET himself said that we shouldn't ignore the world of form as illusionary as it is. In my opinion, finding balance between the relative and the absolute reality is the best thing to do. Getting lost in introspective inquiries (who is thinking that, what am I) and taking no action when we see wrong things being done can be dangerous.
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Re: Money

Postby kiki » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:16 pm

Can't we do both?


Sure. But what is primary is what is real.

Getting lost in introspective inquiries (who is thinking that, what am I) and taking no action when we see wrong things being done can be dangerous.


The idea is to wake up from introspective inquiries. "Getting lost in introspective inquiries" is not what waking up is about, but such inquiry can lead to realization, which is what awakening is about. Wake up, then let action flow.
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Re: Money

Postby OnthePath » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:40 pm

kiki wrote:
The idea is to wake up from introspective inquiries. "Getting lost in introspective inquiries" is not what waking up is about, but such inquiry can lead to realization, which is what awakening is about. Wake up, then let action flow.

I see your point, and I agree.
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Re: Money

Postby Sighclone » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:54 am

In Oprah webinar #4 or #5 Eckhart speaks about preparing to confront a person abusing an animal. He was in the process of taking action when someone closer intervened. Kiki is not suggesting that you begin introspection about "Who am I" instead of saving a drowning child. Waking up means that your priorities are determined by the Universe, in the present moment. Wondering what Eckhart did with his last $10,000 royalty check is way down the list.

In his fine new book "Wake up Now," Stephen Bodian speaks at length about the personal foibles of his various teachers. His conclusion, though, rather than judging them, is to point out, as does Adya, that awakening has several steps, including "closing the gap" (Adya). The suggestion is that after the first clear and deep experience of Pure Awareness, and the recognition that that is who you really, really, really are, well......what about the "little you" that always hated your sister? The "little self" who always managed to disappoint his supervisors, etc.

This full embodiment may take time. It may take therapy (and there are a number of awakened therapists now - read "The Sacred Mirror" or "Listening from the Heart of Silence.") Bodian has a curious, wistful way of discussing the disappointing details of the teachers' lives...but does not discount their favorable impact on his growth.

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