Does Tolle even care?

Is he enlightened? Why does he charge so much money? Does he have an ego? All these unimportant issues and more =)

Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby Baba Bozo » Thu May 28, 2015 2:13 am

Webwanderer wrote:Concern over Tolle's money says far more about the concerned than it does about Tolle. Get what you can out of Tolle's teachings and move on.


Well, there are two parties concerned about the money, Tolle, and some of his students. Given that Tolle is clearly concerned about the money, I don't see why some of his students shouldn't share an interest in that topic.

While Tolle has every right to charge whatever he wants, there are entirely legitimate reasons to question whether money, power and fame are useful additions to these inquiries.

To me, the question is not really about Tolle personally, but about the entire New Age industry which Tolle is but one small part of.

There's a very long tradition in both the East and West of those who work in spiritual fields being of modest means. I'm not proposing that this is a "one true way" which must be adhered to in every circumstance, but we might want to at least pay some attention to what endless generations of our ancestors have come to in regards to such questions.

Should a Catholic priest be a multi-millionaire? How would that affect his relationship with his flock? If this is a reasonable question for Catholic priests, it's a reasonable question for Tolle and the rest of the New Age industry too.

Here's just one reason why it's a reasonable question.

Tolle and other New Age teachers are proposing that they have solutions which can transform our daily lives. But many of them are not living our daily lives. They aren't managing a restaurant 50 hours a week, raising three kids, paying off a mortgage and so on. Instead, they're flying from one nice hotel to another, while adoring followers toss flowers at their feet everywhere they go.

It's reasonable for readers to wonder out loud how much of Tolle's personal psychology situation is due to his insights, and how much of it is due to the fact that he has lots of our money and hero worship.

I'm not making a claim either way, I'm just suggesting it's a reasonable question. When so many try to sweep such issues under the rug, it smells rather too much like the corrupting power of hero worship at work. Tolle is just an articulate nice fellow selling a product. His business should be just as subject to inspection as any other.
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby Webwanderer » Thu May 28, 2015 2:52 am

Again, if you get something of value out of Tolle's teachings, enjoy, make use of it, apply it to your benefit. If you are distracted by how much money he generates (or any teacher for that matter), and are troubled by it, maybe another, less prosperous teacher would be a better course.

I care little for Tolle's personal life, nor his bank account. I prefer to focus on those of his teachings that inspire me and are effective in enhancing my clarity of life and being. To that end he has been of considerable value.

I've since moved on from an in depth study of his work, preferring other resources. But there is no doubt Tolle's teachings have had a beneficial effect on my life. What more can I ask? It is a freedom to not be bogged down by matters I cannot control, nor have any say in.

WW
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby DavidB » Thu May 28, 2015 10:01 am

braveheart wrote:Does it even make any difference whether the world awakens or not?


No, it doesn't matter at all.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby DavidB » Thu May 28, 2015 10:14 am

I couldn't care less about Tolle. I really love and appreciate his talks and the profound wisdom found within them, but as for Tolle himself, I hardly give a thought.

Could Tolle, do more? Yes, I guess he could, I don't know. Could we all do more? Yes, probably. Should he, should we? Maybe, maybe not, we'll see what happens.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter though either way, what matters primarily, is that we bring into consciousness the conscious awareness of being, everything else is secondary, peripheral. And we are all different and have different talents and abilities, some are strong and outgoing and some are weak and fragile. I cannot say what is right for anyone but myself as I only know myself and what I can achieve, what I can tolerate. I cannot know the big picture from my very limited human perspective. I cannot presume to know what is right for anyone but myself, and I am often wrong about that. :wink:
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby Baba Bozo » Thu May 28, 2015 11:46 am

Webwanderer wrote:Again, if you get something of value out of Tolle's teachings, enjoy, make use of it, apply it to your benefit. If you are distracted by how much money he generates (or any teacher for that matter), and are troubled by it, maybe another, less prosperous teacher would be a better course.


And if you are distracted by people who have an interest in the business side of Tolle's life, perhaps you should focus your attention on other subjects in other threads?

It's reasonable to ask why someone is interested in Tolle's money, and it's also reasonable to ask why another someone else might be interested in sweeping that subject off the table.

Again, Tolle himself is clearly interested in the money. So any student who takes up an interest in that topic is just following Tolle's lead. If such an interest is reasonable for Tolle, it's reasonable for others as well.

Webwanderer wrote:I care little for Tolle's personal life, nor his bank account. I prefer to focus on those of his teachings that inspire me and are effective in enhancing my clarity of life and being. To that end he has been of considerable value.


Ok, that's your choice, which you are surely entitled to. So I see no problem here. You can pursue your interests, while others pursue theirs.

Imho, such a conversation should not focus on Tolle exclusively, as he is just one person in an ever growing New Age industry. It wouldn't be fair to imply that Tolle is the only teacher interested in money and fame, as that is clearly not the case. The issue is much larger than Tolle, and Tolle is perhaps just the best known example on this particular forum.

Why are so many New Age folks interested in turning their spirituality in to a business? Why do so many students buy what is essentially the same information over and over again?
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby Fore » Thu May 28, 2015 12:37 pm

DavidB wrote:
braveheart wrote:Does it even make any difference whether the world awakens or not?


No, it doesn't matter at all.

Without awakening it will matter.
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby DavidB » Thu May 28, 2015 2:30 pm

Fore wrote:
DavidB wrote:
braveheart wrote:Does it even make any difference whether the world awakens or not?


No, it doesn't matter at all.


Without awakening it will matter.


No, it won't, not even a little bit. Consciousness is whole, complete, perfect already, awakening is, well, nothing.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby Fore » Thu May 28, 2015 11:18 pm

DavidB wrote: No, it won't, not even a little bit. Consciousness is whole, complete, perfect already, awakening is, well, nothing.


There are four causes for the arising of matter, food, environment, past self, and present self. Without awareness we continuously react blindly, this causes matter to arise.
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby DavidB » Fri May 29, 2015 12:59 am

Fore wrote:
DavidB wrote: No, it won't, not even a little bit. Consciousness is whole, complete, perfect already, awakening is, well, nothing.


There are four causes for the arising of matter, food, environment, past self, and present self. Without awareness we continuously react blindly, this causes matter to arise.


So? Is that a problem?
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby Fore » Fri May 29, 2015 1:34 am

DavidB wrote:So? Is that a problem?


It's not a matter of a problem, this simply is conditions for the arising of matter.
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby DavidB » Fri May 29, 2015 2:08 am

Fore wrote:It's not a matter of a problem, this simply is conditions for the arising of matter.


So what's the issue then, if it isn't a problem? Is there something wrong with the universe manifesting matter, is it not suppose to be doing that?
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby Fore » Fri May 29, 2015 2:22 am

Fore wrote:
DavidB wrote:
braveheart wrote:Does it even make any difference whether the world awakens or not?


No, it doesn't matter at all.

Without awakening it will matter.


You are your own world(universe of experience), If your world does not awaken, it remains in blind reaction, matter will arise as a result.
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Re: Does Tolle even care?

Postby DavidB » Fri May 29, 2015 3:53 am

Fore wrote:You are your own world(universe of experience), If your world does not awaken, it remains in blind reaction, matter will arise as a result.


Matter arises regardless, I didn't make that happen. I only became aware of it happening as it manifested. Can I be held responsible for something that happens before I am aware of it? Is the arising manifestation of matter a mistake, is matter not meant to be?

I am the aware observer of matter arising, which is all I'm only really ever doing anyway. Am I blind when I am the aware observer of the universe manifesting?

Awakening is inevitable, it happens regardless what I do or my intention, it happens effortlessly and continuously. Who is doing and has intention anyway? Is it this awareness of being, or this false mind made sense of self? The only blindness that might occur, is this fictional mind made sense of self, temporarily convincing me that I am not already this awakened awareness of being. I cannot become this awakened awareness of being, I am and have already been this always and never anything else but this. The illusion is that I may have been convinced for a short while that I may not have already been this awakened awareness and and only this.

I cannot become what I already am.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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