My path

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

My path

Postby Jaakko » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:24 pm

I have introduced my self before in another topic, but i wanted to open my own mostly for my self to contemplate things. I will write my feelings here and maybe ask some questions once in a while.. Ofcourse I would be glad, if you wanted to give some guidance.

I have been suffering from fears of social interaction since I was 14 years old. it limited my life very much so i got depressed and took some medication. Talking about my problems even to a therapist was very very difficult. I didnt see my relatives or friends much becouse it was too dispressing, especially my cousin who had been my best friend before these problems.. I was so terribly sad about that, but I just couldnt do much about it. I was afraid of opinions of other people so I isolated.

But then i found Eckhart Tolle. First i was interested in tolles videos about becoming something and the conflicts between NOW and psychological time. Everything in this life situtation started to seem more and more crazy. For a long time I handled this only with my mind and i thought for example meditation is absolutely not for me. anyhow, bit by bit I started to do Tolles inner body -meditation and sometimes I felt relief. Just being out of my thoughts for a second. Actually i thought i was still the thinker, but i was only a silent thinker for a while:) yeah it was confusing.. I really couldnt see the difference between me and a thought. During next year I spent almost all of my free time with Tolles book and some others very intensive. Good things happened to me and i felt i was going to be free of the negativity. The first big experience what was not so clearly explained by mind was very frightening. It was something totally different and i had not even heard about anything like that before. It was the unfamiliar energy in my body that i had talked about in other topic :) I took serious time out and i tried to think what was happening to me. Well i came back to my self-inquary when it was not so scary anymore... I had seen the crazyness of this living, so i actually hadnt had a choice.

One month later someone in this discussion forum introduced me to this Headless seeing thing. I did those video experiments and thats the most blissful experience i have ever had. it was so simple.. For the first time i was so present. whatever thought came to my mind was totally meaningless. perfect peace. Well one or two days after that experience i felt it was fading again. It was clear to me that when the drama comes again in my life all i have to do is to be present for that. And i remember that moment now but i cant put it to alive again. I cant experience the freedom even though I know mentally how to do it :) But it doesnt matter that much..

Now after one and a half year I have been meeting my relatives again and it sometimes even feels enjoyable:) Ofcourse i have lost my earlier interests in people (acceptance, to feel better person, etc.) , but they are cool. My cousin what i was talking about died three weeks ago in a car accident, but it really didnt matter much to me. All the crying people in the church.. i couldnt relate to them that much.. But I also saw that it wasnt the end of their world either.
nowadays I get mixxed up with drama alot, but I also feel present sometimes. I cant handle all of my things from presence yet and I still sometimes have this molesting thought that this path is not the right one. Sometimes i find my self preaching to my closest ones how they should live their life. On the other hand i know that anything in my lifesituation is not so important that it should be worried about.

Thank you.
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Re: My path

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:31 am

Namaste Jaakko, just wanted to let you know your thoughts are read.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
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Re: My path

Postby ashley72 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:09 am

Hi Jaakko,

I can very much relate to your post. Accept my social anxiety didn't start becoming a problem until I turned 34 yrs whereas you were only 14 yrs. I found Tolle's book PON a couple of years later after becoming interested in Buddhism by sheer chance. I was seeking at the time... but not for spirituality per se. I was searching for a way to eliminate social fears. I also started avoiding any contact with cousins & old friends for fear of an anxiety attack. I had a strong belief that certain situations would create an anxiety attack.... and usually when those situations arose... I did feel anxious... which only strengthen that belief structure. Which prolonged the avoidance behaviour.

Anyway, like you I also stumbled across the Headless method and had similar realisations. :D

You might be interested to take a look at Byron Katie's "The Work" Turning Around... which is using the same Law . Turn the arrow of attention around 180 degrees and look inwardly. In Byron's approach she asks you to turn "Thoughts" or "Concepts" around to their opposite (180 degree shift).

For example, ”Paul doesn’t understand me” turns around to ”Paul does understand me.” Be still and witness as your mind reveals to you examples of how this turnaround is true.


The Law: Thought always results in inseparable pairs of concepts (dual pairs) because every thought has an opposite.The two concepts of a pair are always inseparable because the merger of the opposites will cancel the pair. Example: "I"/not-"I" is a dual pair of concepts. If the "I" and not-"I" merge, neither concept remains.

If you look at a number of the experiments on the Headless Way website.... you quickly find that each experiment is design to challenge strongly held beliefs (concepts). Such as:

1. Do I have a solid head/face? Or is the head/face... a void? This experiment is called Pointing Here

2. Do we move inside the world? Or does the world move inside us? This experiment is called "Spinning the World"

3. Is time & space an illusion? This experiment is called Looking Into Time From The Timeless

All these experiments, practices & approaches using the common theme of "turning it around"....are very empowering. They give a vulnerable.... socially anxious....lonely individual.... a fresh look!!!! Maybe equally plausible is turning it around so... I'm socially outgoing with plenty of companionship. :D

Thanks for sharing your story here Jaakko :D!

Above all, this meditation, Janus-like, faces both ways. Simultaneously looking in at the Seer and out at the seen, it takes in and makes sense of the seen because it puts No-thing in its way - and gives priority to this No-thing. Seek the 1st person and the 3rd shall be added. Seek the 3rd, and even that shall be taken away. D.E. Harding
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Re: My path

Postby Jaakko » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:58 pm

Thanks smiileyjen101 and Ashley72!

I have noticed that these video experiments doesnt "work" anymore. And every new method usually "works" at first. it feels like the freshness of the teaching is silencing my mind and then there is this moment of recognition. and a bliss as experience.. But then when im with this new teaching for a while it doesnt work anymore :) Isnt this because of the identification of mental activity? thoughts are coming like clouds to blur my vision.. Even though i have had many of these clear moments (almost with every new and fresh teaching method) im still mostly struggling with the question who am I.
It has something to do with the fresh look..

I dont feel like its a problem, but im just wondering..
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Re: My path

Postby ashley72 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:09 am

Jaakko wrote:It has something to do with the fresh look..


Awareness watching awareness... is a state of continuous looking. That's why is often referred to as "Pure Awareness". When I point home... I still notice thoughts & feelings arising (thoughts are coming like clouds to blur my vision)... however, they appear more at the periphery or the outskirts.... so they don't blur Awareness.

Every thought or cloud that leads you away from Awareness... is just a trick (false identification). The more you stay with awareness the more rapidly the realisation that thoughts & feelings is not the true self. You need to make awareness your true home.

I have already spoken of the Truth that is hidden within your body, but I will summarize for you again the lost teachings of the masters – so here is another signpost. Please endeavor to feel your inner body as you read or listen.

What you perceive as a dense physical structure called the body, which is subject to disease, old age, and death, is not ultimately real – is not you. It is a misperception of your essential reality that is beyond birth and death, and is due to the limitations of your mind, which, having lost touch with Being, creates the body as evidence of its illusory belief in separation and to justify its state of fear. But do not turn away from the body, for within that symbol of impermanence, limitation, and death that you perceive as the illusory creation of your mind is concealed the splendor of your essential and immortal reality. Do not turn your attention elsewhere in your search for the Truth, for it is nowhere else to be found but within your body.

Do not fight against the body, for in doing so you are fighting against your own reality. You are your body. The body that you can see and touch is only a thin illusory veil. Underneath it lies the invisible inner body, the doorway into Being, into Life Unmanifested. Through the inner body, you are inseparably connected to this unmanifested One Life – birthless, deathless, eternally present. Through the inner body, you are forever one with God.

Eckhart Tolle
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Re: My path

Postby Jaakko » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:37 pm

Thank you Ashley.

Yeastarday I realized that all this time i have been searching for something. Most of the time when I was trying to find this awaerness i found only nothing. nothing that wasnt enough!

And i see now that occasional experiences of recognition led me to believe that the bliss I felt belongs in the same package :). So thats why the emptiness was too empty :)

Basically i was trying to think about it. Im aware of every experience im having right now.. as i have always been. Im "watching" everything.
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Re: My path

Postby ashley72 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:45 pm

Jaakko wrote:Thank you Ashley.

Yeastarday I realized that all this time i have been searching for something. Most of the time when I was trying to find this awaerness i found only nothing. nothing that wasnt enough!

And i see now that occasional experiences of recognition led me to believe that the bliss I felt belongs in the same package :). So thats why the emptiness was too empty :)

Basically i was trying to think about it. Im aware of every experience im having right now.. as i have always been. Im "watching" everything.


Yes, when you first start watching awareness... after about 5, 10, 20 minutes you may witness the mind struggling against the no-thingness. It's the end of the road for the mind... as the mind is not used to sitting idle. Therefore, the habit of the mind is to come back in with the movement of thought again. It will judge, complain & rate the practice! That's why "practice" ultimately gets in the way of abiding in being.... which is like effortless doing. But don't even try to make it effortless just witness... Watching is all that is required. Awareness watching awareness. :D
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Re: My path

Postby Jaakko » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:34 pm

I have noticed some resistance in background of my mind and it is causing some lack of motivation. This has also made me sad and tired, but Im not really bothered because these feelings and even the lack of motivation and resistance are being watched by "something". Well im still not convinced about why should i even find my true self.. im scared of losing something. its fear isnt it? First i wanted to escape my life situation and those shitty emotions like sadness and depression, but now after this realization has become deeper im scared. Do i wanna go back? no.. Confusing.

I dont read or practise much of this non-dual stuff anymore cause i find it very boring.. but im bringin it in my everyday life. allways trying to notice the watcher.. Confusing this message but it reflects my situation.
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Re: My path

Postby Jaakko » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:13 pm

Question!

Is it possible to get trapped in the position of "knower"? Like isolating your self from experience.. Everything i see is not me etc.
I hope you understand.. :)
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Re: My path

Postby kiki » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:51 pm

Is it possible to get trapped in the position of "knower"? Like isolating your self from experience.. Everything i see is not me etc.
I hope you understand.. :)


Well, ego can co-opt the perspective of "knower", making it just another layer of identity that ego builds around itself. In doing so you would easily isolate yourself from experience. The ego can be very subtle, very sneaky, so you have to be very alert to what's happening in any given moment.

Consciousness/awareness/Being/Self IS the knower, but it doesn't deny or isolate itself from anything or any experience. In other words, when awake one fully experiences everything no matter what it is. There is just unadulterated experience happening and the "knowing" of that experience fully. There is no identification of any kind going on whatsoever; there is just experience happening. It's when mind/ego inserts itself into the picture that experience become adulterated. So if it seems as though something sets itself apart from experience then there is some sort of identification taking place within the mind.

Check out this Jeff Foster interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump and see if what he says addresses your question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eanabMrSYUg
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: My path

Postby Jaakko » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:38 pm

Thank you so much for answer.
kiki wrote:
Well, ego can co-opt the perspective of "knower", making it just another layer of identity that ego builds around itself.

So if it seems as though something sets itself apart from experience then there is some sort of identification taking place within the mind.


I did it.. Somehow my mind started to relay on this "knowing" in difficult situtations to make it self feel better.. Now I (or something that I call I) feel like shit.

Im gonna watch the youtube-link now. thanks.
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Re: My path

Postby Jaakko » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:24 pm

Two weeks ago I had a small "breaktrhough" after concentrating on awareness and immediately after that tiredness came. it feels like hangover.. Im tired but i cant sleep much.. I can go to work and do things like allways, but concentrating on awareness is very hard. Im ok with this and i think only thing i can do is wait. But I would like to know if anyone else is having these kind of experiences.
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Re: My path

Postby karmarider » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:43 pm

The three-steps-forward-two-steps-back feeling is quite common and part of the recovery process. When there is acceptance of that, it becomes more amusing than frustrating.
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Re: My path

Postby Jaakko » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:46 pm

I understand that, but I would like to know what causes this tiredness and lack of ability to concentrate on awareness.. I know I should not resist even this tiredness. And im not really making a problem out of it.. Well i have to admit here is some sort of fear on a background or otherwise I wouldnt ask. I think there is no simple explanation for this.. maybe its just somekind of re-adjustment of energys or something...
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Re: My path

Postby kiki » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:57 pm

I can go to work and do things like allways, but concentrating on awareness is very hard.


Tell me more about this - what do you mean by "concentrating on awareness", what specifically are you doing?
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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