Subconscious mind activity

[Golf]

Hello everyone! I need some insight into what I'm experiencing, and I'd like to share it with people who also study Eckhart's books.

I'm being tempted to tell you "my story", but it seems to me now that it would be a bunch of thoughts and ego activity, so I'd rather just talk about what I'm experiencing now. Maybe just to say that I'm male, 30, and a type of person prone to anxiety, worry and self-criticism. I'm also sensitive and can feel a lot of empathy for people.

After a few years of periodically reading and contemplating Eckhart's books, I think I finally did it. For several days now, I can dis-identify from my thoughts and judgments. I can observe those self-critical thoughts just floating in the mind, or my judgments about people and situations (and my own life situation), and not get sucked into them, and it feels a bit simpler and lighter like this. It's possible!

But there is something else in me besides those thoughts that are more "visible" to me. Something that feels like a "haze" in my mind, like a large chunk of my attention is being absorbed somewhere, like the mind is preoccupied with it, just that I don't know what it's about. Also, there's a heaviness and murkiness in the chest and abdomen.

I used to worry a lot about feeling this, and be outraged why I can't feel light and happy, but I learned to "observe" those worried thoughts, so now I'm just left with this subconscious preoccupation and physical feelings of heaviness and pressure. I suspect this might be my pain-body. Like, I'm not feeding it anymore, but it's still there.

I've just been "with" these sensations for these past few days and they're there most of the time. I've tried "watching the pain body", and I re-read sections on it in the books, but things still feel the same. A part of me wants it to "go away", but then I'm trying to just "accept" these sensations being there, that seems like all I can do right now. I'm open to all suggestions on how to approach this next.

[rideforever]

When you are "with" these sensations, do you get any telemetry ?

i.e. do particular memories / phenomena spontaneously appear at the same time ... and if so, do they give you further information about what is going on ?

[Golf]

When you are "with" these sensations, do you get any telemetry ?

i.e. do particular memories / phenomena spontaneously appear at the same time ... and if so, do they give you further information about what is going on ?

No, I just feel this heaviness in the body. And like a lot of my attention is "subconsciously preoccupied" somewhere. For example when I'm in nature, I can't really connect with it, like there's a "veil" between it and me.
Plus, I feel slightly apathic, lazy, and not really energetic. I do my duties though, but I have to motivate myself consciously.

I detected that my mind is saying "oh no, so much time is passing, and you're not solving this problem, every day it's the same... yada yada"
The best I can do is detach from my mind's comments about the sensation and subconscious preoccupation. But it just stays there.


My theory on what "messed me up" like this in the past: Being immature for too long, having a nagging parent, always trying to fulfill other's expectations, not doing "my thing" but withdrawing to get away from those expectations... although I've been really proactive for the last year or so, to turn my life where I want it to go.

[rideforever]

I think you are being misled.

Apathy is ... just another kind of energy present within you ... but it is sneaky : it aims to 'convince' you not to look at it.

[there is nothing to see here, you don't feel like it, you are bored, you can't connect with this, you have no energy ... these aren't the droids you are looking for]

But ... it is just another energy present within you.

You can observe it as normal if you override your normal reaction to it. It is very a very important step when you know that you can keep present at any time, and recognise that the phenomena you experience is a defence. This is the time for a breakthrough.

I remember a 2hr session I did in a retreat. It was a war with my mind which was derailing my effort at remaining present, it was a battle but I hung in there like a hero and remained as close to 1-pointed as possible for the whole 2hrs. I cried at the end, it had been so tough. But I made it, and the relationship with my mind was forever changed.

[Golf]

I think you are being misled.

Apathy is ... just another kind of energy present within you ... but it is sneaky : it aims to 'convince' you not to look at it.

[there is nothing to see here, you don't feel like it, you are bored, you can't connect with this, you have no energy ... these aren't the droids you are looking for]

But ... it is just another energy present within you.

You can observe it as normal if you override your normal reaction to it. It is very a very important step when you know that you can keep present at any time, and recognise that the phenomena you experience is a defence. This is the time for a breakthrough.

I remember a 2hr session I did in a retreat. It was a war with my mind which was derailing my effort at remaining present, it was a battle but I hung in there like a hero and remained as close to 1-pointed as possible for the whole 2hrs. I cried at the end, it had been so tough. But I made it, and the relationship with my mind was forever changed.

Haha... it took me the second read to figure out the "droids" line

Hmm... yes, although I can detach from some of my thoughts (that's a partial presence, is it not?), I believe I'm very rarely fully present. All those "see a flower", "watch a sunset", "observe the breath" don't seem to really work for me. For example yesterday I was on a hill, and the view from it was another hill, green, and bathed in golden sunshine, it was definitely a majestic "wow" moment, but if it made me present for more than a split second, I don't know... My "mind haze" was there as usual.

However I had an interesting experience a few days ago. There was a huge wasp buzzing on the windows inside my appartment. I caught it in a glass and covered the top with a card, took it to an open window and threw it outside. During this time of wasp catching (maybe 20 seconds) I felt soooo good and clear... Maybe this was real presence. All my attention focused on catching the wasp without hurting it or getting stung. And the exhileration on successfully completing the task. This seems to come to me naturally when I get to do something I'm really good at. Unfortunately, this is very rare currently in my life.

So as you see I don't feel I can be present at any time. Maybe I should try again to achieve some presence intentionally? God knows I tried before... But maybe not as hard as you in the retreat? I'm willing to try again... maybe then I'd be able to observe my phenomena better?

[mega_nix]

what?? why didn't i see that? I just thought that the apathy was because i didn't had so good sleep lately, but now i see that it is a "place" that the mind still control

[Golf]

what?? why didn't i see that? I just thought that the apathy was because i didn't had so good sleep lately, but now i see that it is a "place" that the mind still control

Well maybe apathy after too little sleep is just normal body reaction, to keep you from exerting yourself because you're still tired. Then you think "oh, this apathy is just because lack of sleep", and if you're OK with that, you spend the day just chiling around, a bit tired but happy and relaxed. You have acceptance of the apathy.

But if you're tired, and you "should be doing something", then your mind will say "I shouldn't be having this apathy", and this is where conflict and unhappiness creep in. The "ego-caused apathy", so to speak.

I'm saying this because for some time now, "I should be doing something" (namely, I'm looking for a job so I should be sending out applications and calling people).
But on the other side I'm feeling this heaviness which makes it a lot harder for me to do it. A part of me would just like to be apathetic and relax.

It seems a part of me (internalized parent voice, superego, or whatever) is demanding that I "do something now!", while another part of me (some deep unconscious, little child part) is withdrawing energy and going into apathy, to escape and defend itself against the critical part.

Maybe both of those are parts of ego. I don't know. What I'm trying to do is, to dis-identify from both of them. I just don't know yet what to do with the deep unconscious part.

Because you see, I know what I want. A good job. Not ego, me. Because I like to work and to have money
And I know what to do to eventually find it. Or even make one for myself.
But this inner conflict of mine... "you must!" vs "I don't want to"... seems to drain my energy all the time, and actually prevents me from working on my goal effectively. It's been a self-defeating pattern happening to me for most of my life. This is what I want to change, to get "un-stuck" in life. At least that's what I believe.

[mega_nix]

I feel it too. If i think logical, I could just do what is best for me, and be very industrious, but something in me just wants to be lazy

[Jbrooke]

What Golf said about that "haze" and the heaviness in the chest and abdomen, wondering "why can't I feel light and happy?", being in the midst of nature and beauty and not necessarily feeling as peaceful or present as he wants because of that lingering mind haze and the veil that fogs being completely present, lack of energy--- all of this REALLY resonates with me also. A great deal.

One of the insights posted in response by rideforever was:
"You can observe it as normal if you override your normal reaction to it. It is very a very important step when you know that you can keep present at any time, and recognise that the phenomena you experience is a defence. This is the time for a breakthrough."

I like this perspective. But can you elaborate a little on what you mean by the experience being a defense?

[mega_nix]

so you just need to get out of the box?