When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby kiki » Tue May 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Kiki I wanna say the ego cannot be found but it can be sensed....it is an energy form, hope I am right. It can be seen in ones behaviour etc.


What do you mean by an "energy form", and how can it be seen in one's behaviour?
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed May 30, 2012 12:29 am

Do any of you experience this and if so, what is your next step?

Jen, when feeling overwhelmed .... breathe out.


This may sound ridiculously simple, and it is.

When tension builds in us we seek to protect ourselves, we 'close down' to our environment, two manifestations that you've mentioned - the overwhelming feeling and binge eating are both (possible) responses to pressure and fear of not coping, or 'protecting ourselves' in the holding on to breath and in the layering of protective fat around us we are building barriers between us and what is.

Often this is more debilitating than actually working through 'what is', recognising 'false emotions appearing real' and coming back to balance with what is real.

Breathing out - when we are emotionally overwhelmed we suck in air to 'survive'. When we close down and want to protect ourselves we don't let it out for fear that our next breath will not come.

But in order for it to come, we need first to empty our lungs of the stale air that is increasing our panic, our sick and faint feeling it's because we've forgotten to breathe. It's a funny leap of faith that we do all the time without knowing it, we breathe in, we breathe out and in the breathing out new breath can flow in.

Fainting, panic, giddiness and dizziness all come from not breathing out. We are 'holding on' to that which is unhelpful to hold.

In difficult circumstances sometimes it is enough to put one foot in front of the other, and remember to breathe.

But, that is okay too.

It need be no more complicated than this.

When my daughter was pregnant a friend started a book of 'mothers' wisdoms' where mums of all ages put their thoughts to assist the young mum in her journey. Some detailed all the trials and tribulations of their journey, the 'how to' on the 'what ifs', the remedies for everything that may or may not emerge in her journey, the 'what helps' and 'what hurts more'...

I pondered amid all the wisdoms I've learned in sometimes extreme circumstances balancing caring for others and myself, and I wrote - When in doubt, breathe out.

Try it and let us know how you go.

On the recurring issues you may (and maybe with a counsellor) want to explore what happened the first time you responded by binge eating - what were you trying to protect/distance yourself from as a five year old when you employed it as a coping strategy.. did you also 'hold your breath'?

These may have seemed like the best possible responses you could employ as a five year old, but as an adult you may like to adopt other responses, these two are obviously not working for you.
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby muthu » Wed May 30, 2012 4:37 pm

kiki wrote:
Kiki I wanna say the ego cannot be found but it can be sensed....it is an energy form, hope I am right. It can be seen in ones behaviour etc.


What do you mean by an "energy form", and how can it be seen in one's behaviour?


If my understanding is right, anger, irritability, unhappiness, are some of the manifestations of the ego and we furthur strengthen it thru identification with them.
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby kiki » Wed May 30, 2012 6:20 pm

If my understanding is right, anger, irritability, unhappiness, are some of the manifestations of the ego and we furthur strengthen it thru identification with them.


That's right. People say, "I am angry," or "I am unhappy," and so forth, maintaining a personal viewpoint. Have you investigated yet whether that I/ego is actually real? What is found when you look for it?
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby Jbrooke » Wed May 30, 2012 11:23 pm

Jen,

Yes, the breathing is what I inevitably resort to in every situation now. It has become almost automatic for me because I have been practicing it so much. And since reading your post, I have been trying to focus on the outer breathe more than I was before. In retrospect I can see that I "forgot" to breath most of the time. In nearly all situations, this was so. The conscious breathing has become an essential tool for me and I am grateful for that. Even though, at times, it can feel almost futile- but I know that my body is thanking me for every real breath I take and release. I was basically starving it before.
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu May 31, 2012 1:39 am

Good to hear Jen, breathing out is the 'expelling' of what 'was' once useful, but is no longer. (now stale breath)

If you become conscious of this you can expell all that 'was' - for example a fright let go need not become a fear, a fear let go need not become a phobia or panic attack, a thought let go need not become a belief, an automatic response signal let go need not be enacted - by the consciousness of letting go of what 'was', even if a moment ago, even if moment by moment, breath by breath until breathing and thinking returns to a more peaceful state.

The action of breathing out is the core of relaxing - muscles, sinew, tensions, and thought patterns that are sending chemicals buzzing through the brain, along the nervous system tensing you up to fight or flight. It's for this reason physiotherapists etc coach you to breathe in... and breathe out - their manipulation techniques to 'correct' imbalances/tensions work more effectively when applied to a relaxed physical and mental condition, rather than the 'inflated' more rigid state on breathing in.

If you breathe out with your whole body and mind you will become supple again, the breathing in that will happen automatically allows 'new breath' like a cleansing breeze to flow into you. Being mindful of this, tuning into the innate natural beauty of this is calming in itself.

With this conscious breathing the brain chemicals take a moment or two to return to normal and then clarity of thought can be employed.

Breathing out as a conscious exercise can be employed in a variety of ways - singing is fine tuning sound on the outward breath, so is screaming ; ), yelling... a built up frustration (distance between reality and expectation) can be cleared by a great big long yell... aaaarrrrggggerrrrrrrhhhhhhhh,
On the next inbreath of new breath you can reframe your thinking, breathing in what is, in its unjudged purity.

Laughing is another wonderful way to exhale stale air and states.

When you become conscious of moments, you can become conscious of what you 'put in' to them and yourself.
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby muthu » Thu May 31, 2012 3:25 pm

kiki wrote:That's right. People say, "I am angry," or "I am unhappy," and so forth, maintaining a personal viewpoint. Have you investigated yet whether that I/ego is actually real? What is found when you look for it?



I did try to investigate after I saw this post.....I tried it with what my ego/thoughts were leading me to believe.....when I just looked in( I am not sure if it was my ego masquerading as something else) I could sense...I stress on sense and feel.....a quietness right in the middle of my chest, but it did not stay for too long, and then my thoughts rushed back in and that not so nice feeling returned. This is much harder work then actually running a marathon. The mind is exhausting.
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby Golf » Thu May 31, 2012 5:00 pm

I did try to investigate after I saw this post.....I tried it with what my ego/thoughts were leading me to believe.....when I just looked in( I am not sure if it was my ego masquerading as something else) I could sense...I stress on sense and feel.....a quietness right in the middle of my chest, but it did not stay for too long, and then my thoughts rushed back in and that not so nice feeling returned. This is much harder work then actually running a marathon. The mind is exhausting.


Hmm...
Are you "trying to sense" this quietness? Instead of it, could you simply look in and try to sense whatever is inside you? You say thoughts rushed in and the feeling returned. Next time, could you try to distinguish between the two? Like, focus your attention onto the feeling inside you, and not the thoughts that come bundled with it? The feeling in your body is as it is at this moment (no reason to fight it), and the thoughts are the commentary about it (not "liking" it), just drop the thoughts and focus on the feeling itself. Allow it. Can you do that?
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby Jbrooke » Thu May 31, 2012 5:36 pm

Golf, when you say look inside to sense what is inside of you vs trying to sense the quietness, do you mean that on a more physical level? Like focusing on the physical sensations of whatever feeling arises. Focus on the sensation of the knot in the stomach, burning in the throat, palpitations, etc.?
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby Golf » Thu May 31, 2012 5:53 pm

Jbrooke wrote:Golf, when you say look inside to sense what is inside of you vs trying to sense the quietness, do you mean that on a more physical level? Like focusing on the physical sensations of whatever feeling arises. Focus on the sensation of the knot in the stomach, burning in the throat, palpitations, etc.?


I guess I do, I'm actually trying this myself too... Like, I close my eyes, relax, "drop" thoughts for a bit, and try to sense any sensations in the body. Knot in stomach (yep, I've got one too :D ). And like an itch in the throat sometimes. Eckhart says that when emotions are deeply unconscious, they may be felt like a physical sensation.

So I "sense" the knot in stomach, put my attention on it. It just "sits" there.
And then maybe a more definable emotion starts to arise (something like uneasiness, or sad feeling maybe)... as if the deeply unconscious feelings in the knot start getting more conscious when you have attention on them.
But then the thoughts start to arise too... like, "look how this knot won't go away"...

So then it's like I'm dropping thoughts again and again, and trying to keep my attention on the emotions that arise after I notice the knot.
"If you're so smart, how come you're working at a gas station?"
-"It's a service station. We offer service, there is no higher purpose."
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby kiki » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:52 am

This is much harder work then actually running a marathon. The mind is exhausting.


Yes, it is exhausting. When mind is used to "find it" exasperation and exhaustion will follow - at that point of total exhaustion and when the mind cannot go any further it will just stop. In that stopping "it" is revealed. But the thing to remember is this: you don't have to keep struggling with finding an answer in the mind because the answer is not found IN the mind. The answer has nothing to do with mind at all. That's why it's so exhausting if you keep looking for it via mind/thinking.

It's understandable, however, that people keep relying on mind since that's what they are used to doing and it's the only thing they know to do. For everything else the mind is a great tool, but for revealing one's ever present true nature it tends to get in the way. So if you ask yourself, "Who/what am I?" and then mind keeps giving an answer you know for sure you haven't found it. All mind can do is give you concepts because that's what mind is, nothing but one concept after another. The answer, however, is NOT a concept, it is a direct seeing/realization of what is ever present, the witnessing consciousness/awareness. That consciousness isn't isolated in one particular part of the body, although at times you may experience it in some parts of the body more noticeably than others. It is without dimension and is omnipresent. In other words, it is not bound by time or space - it's everywhere and nowhere in particular, in the timeless now.

So, what to do when using self-enquiry? Ask the question, "Who/what am I?" and then pay attention to what arises - simply observe whatever answer enters the mind and let that answer dissolve again. I would recommend doing this with eyes closed while sitting comfortably. Keep watching and observe the next thing that comes up and watch that dissolve again. Just easily let the thoughts come and go without latching onto any of them, or trying to force the mind to come to any certain conclusion. This is about watching whatever comes up unconditionally without trying to manipulate any of it. Just be easy with the whole thing, and have no expectation.

If you don't try to hold onto or resist any particular thought, or chase one thought by deliberately introducing another one, at some point you will realize that this litany of thoughts running through the mind will cease, and yet something remains present and alert to that cessation of thoughts. That gap between thoughts is where the "answer" is, not as a thing but as the silent, still, spaciousness that gets labeled "awareness". But don't even go so far as labeling it when that gap comes; instead, just rest there and be.

Later, as you get more familiar with this silent alertness you will realize that thoughts no longer obscure it. In other words, you can be filled with thoughts while simultaneously feeling/experiencing the silence of awareness. It's like having one foot anchored in the formless stillness of awareness while the other foot tap dances in the world of forms. Then thoughts, sensations, emotions, events, other people, and so on no longer pull you out of presence.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:36 am

kiki said: Later, as you get more familiar with this silent alertness you will realize that thoughts no longer obscure it.
In other words, you can be filled with thoughts while simultaneously feeling/experiencing the silence of awareness.

It's like having one foot anchored in the formless stillness of awareness while the other foot tap dances in the world of forms.

Then thoughts, sensations, emotions, events, other people, and so on no longer pull you out of presence.


Yum yum kiki!!
I was just 'in' a situation that was a little funny/bizarre and still had this stillness/presence and part of me was 'dealing logically-thinking' about the situation, the rest was tingly/giggly going ... gads I'm freefalling here :D
Like.. freefalling through clouds, no parachute and still smiling, like laying on your back in the ocean in a storm... still 'knowing' the sea will hold you, the current will take you, no need to panic, let it flow.

So your 'tap dance in the world of forms' is kinda soooooo cute!! and I went.. Yeah! Like that!!
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby muthu » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:24 pm

This is about watching whatever comes up unconditionally without trying to manipulate any of it. Just be easy with the whole thing, and have no expectation.


I tried this last night instead of meditating. In meditation I try to focus my attention on my breadth, and just let the thoughts come and go, but in actually watching the thoughts, I realized 1) My thoughts were endless, racing mind.
2) Sometimes, I was not alert enough and usually I was able to watch the thought when it was already subsiding.....like I was having a thought within
a thought. By then the first thought was fading away......to put it another way.....I was day dreaming with my eyes closed, kind of like a lulled
effect, and had to be more aware of my thoughts.
3) I felt immense pressure in my head, is that normal.

I am going to try it again tonite and everynight till I am able to watch without judging, and am alert enough to see the thought rise up and then fade away.
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:19 am

muthu wrote: I felt immense pressure in my head, is that normal.


When you intentionally place "attention" to a part of the body. The senses come alive. The more intense our attentional focus the stronger the sensing. We are attending to an arising object in our head - a strong bodily sensation. Is that you? Is that your sense of Self??

You ask the question is that normal? That is the thinking mind interpreting that bodily sensation. It's anxiety arising... a fear about is the sensing safe to do.

But next turn the attention to what is sensing this strong bodily sense... which is the attentive nature itself. You won't be able to see it like the bodily sense, because it's not an object... It's the looking itself. It's always here... Try and sense THAT... which is nowhere to be found but always here attending to all things... Including that immense pressure in the head.
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Re: When you can't accept that you can't accept...

Postby muthu » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:33 pm

You ask the question is that normal? That is the thinking mind interpreting that bodily sensation. It's anxiety arising... a fear about is the sensing safe to do.



Thank you Ashley, for clarifying my doubt. I was viewing it as my mind releasing negative emotions. I will try it tonite and see how it goes. I am grateful for having found this forum, people truely want to guide you. Thank you......I feel gratitude :D
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