Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:46 pm

MForell wrote:Self realization brings everything to one absolute. Its like life forced us from the beginning of our birth to create a wrong perception to all things. ...


I think it is fear in the beginning. The mind subsequently develops in the context that something is wrong.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby MForell » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:50 pm

Yes because mind can never figure this out. This is outside of mind. Everything happends in this.
As it came to be the most ridicilous explanation about enlightment now seems the most accurate one:
Its the isness of is and the amness of am.
I am.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby rachMiel » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:32 pm

MForell wrote:I am.

Me too!
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby kiki » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:39 pm

Glad to hear from you again today, MForell - nice posts. Merry Christmas.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:42 pm

MForell wrote:Yes because mind can never figure this out. This is outside of mind.


Which is why practices, spiritual theories, and the attainment of spiritual knowledge do not work--if they work, it is only by coincidence.

...Its the isness of is and the amness of am.
I am.


Perhaps a plainer way of saying that is to get a direct of experience of you.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby kev42 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:33 pm

i am so glad to find others that have been down the rabbit hole like i have! I went so deep i landed in a psychiatric ward for 8 days. I was diagnosed as being psychotic.Now i meditate everyday and try to spend each moment in the now
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby Mamaseeker » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:01 am

I hear ya... this quote below describes how I feel about my awakening experience

Natalie wrote:When I started having glimpses into experiences similar to yours, I remember an initial feeling of apathy after the experience ended….a feeling that everything was irrelevant, that there was no point to anything, like you describe. Feeling this way didn’t help me or my loved ones as I slacked off on physical exercise, healthy eating and picked up a bad habit I had dropped over 6 years ago, drinking a bottle to a bottle and a half of wine most nights. This lifestyle is not good for me as it doesn’t support the life I want to have with my family.
Natalie


This is exactly how I feel right now. After experiencing "the bliss" not too long ago, I'm in the dumps right now. I have isolated myself almost completely, if not for my daughter. Feeling of apathy towards everything...and nothing matters anymore. I so want to get back to that blissful state I had a taste of, where everything seemed ONE and not separate. Where my fears ceased because the egoistic ME ceased to be.
And now I truly hate the world around me. So uncharacteristic of an awakened individual. Of course it has to be. I'm not truly AWAKE. Or why else would I hate everything around me. The only thing I would love right now is to somehow cease the mind-body non-sense I'm going through right now.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby tod » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:44 pm

Mamaseeker wrote:After experiencing "the bliss" not too long ago, I'm in the dumps right now. I have isolated myself almost completely, if not for my daughter. Feeling of apathy towards everything...and nothing matters anymore. I so want to get back to that blissful state I had a taste of, where everything seemed ONE and not separate. Where my fears ceased because the egoistic ME ceased to be.
And now I truly hate the world around me. So uncharacteristic of an awakened individual. Of course it has to be. I'm not truly AWAKE. Or why else would I hate everything around me. The only thing I would love right now is to somehow cease the mind-body non-sense I'm going through right now.


This sounds like an ego that 'knows it's time is up' so it has commandeered the realisation (made it unto an understanding, conceptualised it) by twisting freedom into a desperate thought construct with associated feelings of isolation, apathy, disinterest and hate to keep itself in place.

It has even twisted the openness of love into a thought that it would love to stop the body-mind nonsense, ie the thought that thinks it is the body-mind - the very thought that keeps itself going! How twisting this thought identification can be.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby rachMiel » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:05 am

Mamaseeker wrote:After experiencing "the bliss" not too long ago, I'm in the dumps right now. I have isolated myself almost completely, if not for my daughter. Feeling of apathy towards everything...and nothing matters anymore. I so want to get back to that blissful state I had a taste of, where everything seemed ONE and not separate. Where my fears ceased because the egoistic ME ceased to be. / And now I truly hate the world around me. So uncharacteristic of an awakened individual. Of course it has to be. I'm not truly AWAKE. Or why else would I hate everything around me. The only thing I would love right now is to somehow cease the mind-body non-sense I'm going through right now.

A traditional Vedanta teacher* would probably say that your experience is, in a nutshell, the main problem with the approach taught by Tolle and other neo-Advaitans, that without a strong foundation of understanding of the big picture, (quasi-)enlightenment experiences are often short-lived and existentially confusing. Maybe some good old-fashioned dharma work to strengthen your "spiritual core" would be a good thing?

* This from a(n avid) newbie Vedanta student, so sprinkle salt liberally. :-)
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby Mamaseeker » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:20 pm

Tod, rachmiel,
Thanks for your response. I understand what you guys are saying. Iam not new to the concepts of Advaita. It's just that my cognitive ability to understand Advaita in its core is not very advanced. I'm not able to 'Walk The Talk', I can just "talk" about it.
I do realize that most of my feelings are projections of my thoughts and ego. But how to let go of this nonsense? And I think I might have ADD as an adult. And Tolle's main idea is to pay attention to the Now and Here. It is very hard for me to do that. Although I love all that Tolle, Adya and their likes say, I'm unable to implement any of it in my situation. But I must say that the quasi-enlightenment I had felt very real. It sure was a bliss to experience that freedom. It lasted for about a week. And now I'm back to my old habits :(

Is there a way for me to take up a Guru online? And I know I need a proper Vedanta teacher to guide me through this journey. Are there any online Vedanta teachers who are available through Skype? Please help me here. Thanks.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby tod » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:22 am

Mamaseeker wrote:Tod, rachmiel,
Thanks for your response. I understand what you guys are saying. Iam not new to the concepts of Advaita. It's just that my cognitive ability to understand Advaita in its core is not very advanced. I'm not able to 'Walk The Talk', I can just "talk" about it.
I do realize that most of my feelings are projections of my thoughts and ego. But how to let go of this nonsense? And I think I might have ADD as an adult. And Tolle's main idea is to pay attention to the Now and Here. It is very hard for me to do that. Although I love all that Tolle, Adya and their likes say, I'm unable to implement any of it in my situation. But I must say that the quasi-enlightment I had felt very real. It sure was a bliss to experience that freedom. It lasted for about a week. And now I'm back to my old habits :(


In response to this, I would say that I could say much the same, but it is being learnt here that talking as if I am a limited being is self fulfilling (and in general conventional conversation with folk, I need to watch that I do not really believe that stuff :)). As you are probably aware, the body-mind may be limited but you are not - unless you believe a thought that thinks you are - you, being the awareness that is aware of this.

Is there a way for me to take up a Guru online? And I know I need a proper Vedanta teacher to guide me through this journey. Are there any online Vedanta teachers who are available through Skype? Please help me here. Thanks.


I have done some reading and listening to audio from James Swartz' website; he is a Vedanta teacher; also read some source texts he has there; have found his site helpful. He is very strong on teaching that knowledge is required, not experience; also strong on the fact that work is required. I know that you can email Swartz and folk have had an ongoing email dialogue with him, but do not know if he does Skype. Here is his site: http://www.shiningworld.com/top/

Best wishes.
Last edited by tod on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby Onceler » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:29 am

If its enlightenment you want, go with a guru.....if its sanity and simplicity, check out John Sherman. He had a similar experience. After having been around the block with many schools of thought, I think they are all too complex. I prefer the slow dawning of sanity and diminished distance from life.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:00 pm

Onceler wrote:If its enlightenment you want, go with a guru.....if its sanity and simplicity, check out John Sherman. He had a similar experience. After having been around the block with many schools of thought, I think they are all too complex. I prefer the slow dawning of sanity and diminished distance from life.


This resonates. The chase for enlightenment and spritual dogma and theories and practices is fine for those who want to do that.

For those who come to see the futility of the spiritual search and those who recognize that suffering is simply the separation from human life caused by fear--these people I think will find John Sherman to be direct and refreshing.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby rideforever » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:33 pm

Sherman is teaching a simplified vipassana.

He includes 2 stages : shamata breathing and vipassana direction your attention inwards, which exactly mirrors the standard way Buddhist vipassana is taught.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:54 am

rideforever wrote:Sherman is teaching a simplified vipassana.

He includes 2 stages : shamata breathing and vipassana direction your attention inwards, which exactly mirrors the standard way Buddhist vipassana is taught.


You might get that idea because recently Sherman has been focused on the problems of recovery. He has gotten away from the basics.

The basic problem is the context of fear in the mind, the pervading belief that something is wrong with life. And to see through this delusion, all you do is bring attention to what it feels like to be you. Get the direct experience of you. That's all, and this is not different from what Ramana or Nisargadatta said, except it's clearer.

But I can see why you would think he is suggesting a breathing or vipassana practice, as what he has said recently is to to try to help people deal with the recovery which follows the looking.
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