Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby Nameste » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:29 am

I've appreciated reading these posts since I experience some of this, perhaps in a different way. Since I was a teen, I would sometimes experience a disassociation from the self, or to be in a sort of detached dream like state. This initialy was likely from deep anxiety, but intesified in college when smoking pot. Eventually I was at the point where I felt "stoned" or removed from the self even when not using. This was very difficult, and later I learned this condition known as "depersonalization". To keep the story short, I will just say that after much struggle I got involved with spiritual practice in my early 20's. It has taken decades, but now I do have much more clarity of the worldy self which helps me function and enjoy life. But I also know I have a spiritual center, or a "no-self". This used to freak me out. Imagine, not having a self anymore. But through meditation and spiritual study I have gotten comfortable with that, because as you lose the "ego" self, you gain experience of the essense of self. I'm not saying I experience the higher states, but I am pretty detached from the world and self if I chose to be. Maybe I'm sort of in "no mans land" at the moment. Not attached to the ego self, but also not experiencing bliss or higher states I often read about. Although often in meditation I do feel completely still, an inner calm, an energy, sometimes light, and a peace. Sometimes I sit motionless for an hour this way. But back in the world I'm sort of here and checked out at the same time, not sure of the relevence of life. One way I deal with it is to think about our ego "life" and how it is basically ongoing suffering. Logic would then tell me I am better off giving up the ego "self" with endless suffering and risking the "non-self". I am not fully sure where that takes me. It could be going to a higher state, a numb detachment, or perhaps non-existance after physical death. All of which are preferable over ongoing suffering of the ego self (I have concluded). So why not move that way? I have enough faith and trust that many teachers (Tolle among them) do speak of higher states of awareness when in the moment and without the ego self, and that the experience of "no-self" and emergence with the "one" is a beautiful experience. Thats sort of where I am at now. Enough ego to fucntion, but also a willingness to let it go and a trust more will be there even if I don't expereince it when "letting go". It beats being stuck on the endless psychotic roller coaster of insane drama humanity finds itself on, right? To close, I want to relate to a book I recently read called "Collision with the Infinite". A womans journey of non-self. I was able to relate to this and wanted to post in case others may as well. Nameste
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby rideforever » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:06 am

karmarider wrote:I can see why you would think he is suggesting a breathing or vipassana practice, as what he has said recently is to to try to help people deal with the recovery which follows the looking.

I followed your link and read his instructions on his website. It's a simplified vipassana.

You bring your attention to the breath until you are calm, and then you look inside. That's shamatha / vipassana that is taught all around the world. He has a particular way of talking about looking inside and seeing the whole thing in one, the entire movement of fear that binds that reminds me of J Krishnamurti.

He is also someone who has lived a life of ill-repute, a gambler, a criminal. You might see this has have had the guts to go into life and having had experience at the business end of life, or you might see that as an unreliable teacher who has spent too much time enjoying the darkness.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:34 am

rideforever wrote:
karmarider wrote:I can see why you would think he is suggesting a breathing or vipassana practice, as what he has said recently is to to try to help people deal with the recovery which follows the looking.

I followed your link and read his instructions on his website. It's a simplified vipassana.

You bring your attention to the breath until you are calm, and then you look inside. That's shamatha / vipassana that is taught all around the world.


I don't know what link you followed and I'm actually quite surprised that anyone could interpret the looking technique as shamatha / vipassana. It's not a practice. And it's not a meditation. It's this: http://justonelook.org/just-one-look.html

The looking is quite simple. Just look to get a direct experience of you. That's all. It's what Ramana and Nisargadatta were talking about, except I think Sherman is clearer.

In any case, If you're seriously looking into this, I suggest you don't try to compare it to anything you already know.

He has a particular way of talking about looking inside and seeing the whole thing in one, the entire movement of fear that binds that reminds me of J Krishnamurti.


Yes, many others have talked about fear: J. Krishnamurti, Jed Mckenna, Anthony de Mello, Eckhart Tolle and I'm sure there are many others.

He is also someone who has lived a life of ill-repute, a gambler, a criminal. You might see this has have had the guts to go into life and having had experience at the business end of life, or you might see that as an unreliable teacher who has spent too much time enjoying the darkness.


Hehe. I see it as irrelevant.

Sherman and other teachers are around to give us ideas. What you do with their pointers, if anything, is up to you.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby rideforever » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:04 pm

Of course it's a technique - what are you talking about !!! Here is the technique I am just copying from the website !!!!

Step 1: Learn to Move the Beam of Your Attention at Will
To begin, just relax for a moment, and notice the obvious fact that you have the power to move your attention at will.

As you read this, move your attention away from the text for a moment, and direct it instead to the feel of your breathing.

Notice the feel of your chest and belly expanding and contracting, and then bring it back here to this page.

Do that a couple of times so that you become familiar with what I mean by "moving the beam of your attention at will."
That action of moving attention at will, as you just did, is all that's needed to accomplish what I am asking you to do. The more you practice this simple act, the more you'll become familiar with how it feels to do it. And the more familiar you become with the feel of it, the more skillful and direct you will be in the effort to move the beam of attention where it must go.



Step 2: Turn the Beam of Your Attention Inward
Now, use that skill to actually turn the beam of attention inward. Try to make a direct, unmediated contact with what it actually feels like to be you, just plain and simple you.
When I say you, I don’t mean the thoughts that pass through you, nor the emotions that play in you, nor the sensations that rise and fall within you, just you. You are that which is always here, look at that. Everything else comes and goes in you. You already know what you are, and what it feels like to be you, and you will surely recognize yourself when you see yourself in this way.

There is no need to try and stay there, resting in your self or any such thing. All it takes is the length of a heartbeat, so brief that you will hardly notice it. It really is that simple.

Repeat this as often as it occurs to you to do so.




I work a lot with fear these days. I am trying to cleanse it from my system.

But 'just one look' seems ridiculous to me. You can notice the fear in one look, but not clean it.

Yes with 'one look' you can dispose of the entire ego if you wish. But that's like suicide.

If you want to live fully you need all your faculties and these get severely knotted with fear and the other strong subconscious drives. They become a big knot of beliefs, emotions, thoughts, body sensations, energetic distortions. There is no 'look' that is going to clean this all out.

Yes, you can throw it overboard. In the same way as you can jump off a building - yes that will stop the fear. But that's not really the goal is it.

To undo the knots takes effort and time, that's how it seems to me. But perhaps I am greedy - I don't want to suicide a part of myself, I want it all to function perfectly.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:37 pm

rideforever wrote:Of course it's a technique - what are you talking about !!! Here is the technique I am just copying from the website !!!!


Breathe, rideforever. I'm glad you are able to agree now that it's a technique--not a practice or meditation or vipassana.

I work a lot with fear these days. I am trying to cleanse it from my system.

But 'just one look' seems ridiculous to me. You can notice the fear in one look, but not clean it.

Yes with 'one look' you can dispose of the entire ego if you wish. But that's like suicide.

If you want to live fully you need all your faculties and these get severely knotted with fear and the other strong subconscious drives. They become a big knot of beliefs, emotions, thoughts, body sensations, energetic distortions. There is no 'look' that is going to clean this all out.

Yes, you can throw it overboard. In the same way as you can jump off a building - yes that will stop the fear. But that's not really the goal is it.

To undo the knots takes effort and time, that's how it seems to me. But perhaps I am greedy - I don't want to suicide a part of myself, I want it all to function perfectly.


You have some strange misconceptions, rideforever. The fear is not the specific fears you talk about, nor does this have anyting to do with jumping off buildings. And I am not trying to convince you--as I have said to you before, I have not neither the skills nor the inclination for that. If what Sherman says resonates with you, then do the looking. Your misconceptions will work themselves out.
Last edited by karmarider on Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby rideforever » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:57 pm

karmarider wrote:I have not neither the skills nor the inclination for that.

Interesting double negative.

But I agree with you.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby tod » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:24 pm

rideforever wrote:But 'just one look' seems ridiculous to me. You can notice the fear in one look, but not clean it.

Yes with 'one look' you can dispose of the entire ego if you wish. But that's like suicide.

If you want to live fully you need all your faculties and these get severely knotted with fear and the other strong subconscious drives. They become a big knot of beliefs, emotions, thoughts, body sensations, energetic distortions. There is no 'look' that is going to clean this all out.

Yes, you can throw it overboard. In the same way as you can jump off a building - yes that will stop the fear. But that's not really the goal is it.

To undo the knots takes effort and time, that's how it seems to me. But perhaps I am greedy - I don't want to suicide a part of myself, I want it all to function perfectly.


To me, what is noticed in 'one look' is a glimpse, an intimation, of Self, not fear.

Over time, as I further look, gaze, am open eyed, at this intimation, it tends to 'expand' and relieve me (ego) of my tension, my burden, my anxiety. It is becoming an intimacy. I 'fall for' the relief this intimacy provides. I grow to love this intimacy. It is becoming a living embodied intimacy, a merging, a non-duality.

And it is seen that if I think that there is any difference between, or any separating, this tangible intimacy (or intimate tangibility), that is an indication of mind intrusion on this intimacy.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:16 am

To me, what is noticed in 'one look' is a glimpse, an intimation, of Self, not fear.


That's it.

You might find that it is clearer to say you than to use spiritual capitalized words like Self.

Over time, as I further look, gaze, am open eyed, at this intimation, it tends to 'expand' and relieve me (ego) of my tension, my burden, my anxiety. It is becoming an intimacy. I 'fall for' the relief this intimacy provides. I grow to love this intimacy. It is becoming a living embodied intimacy, a merging, a non-duality.

And it is seen that if I think that there is any difference between, or any separating, this tangible intimacy (or intimate tangibility), that is an indication of mind intrusion on this intimacy.


This can happen but it is not the purpose of the looking. The looking is not a practice. It is a temporary intervention. I did the looking for about two months and that was it. Others may continue until they have specific confirmation that it has done the job.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby tod » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:49 pm

karmarider wrote:
Tod said:
Over time, as I further look, gaze, am open eyed, at this intimation, it tends to 'expand' and relieve me (ego) of my tension, my burden, my anxiety. It is becoming an intimacy. I 'fall for' the relief this intimacy provides. I grow to love this intimacy. It is becoming a living embodied intimacy, a merging, a non-duality.

And it is seen that if I think that there is any difference between, or any separating, this tangible intimacy (or intimate tangibility), that is an indication of mind intrusion on this intimacy.


This can happen but it is not the purpose of the looking. The looking is not a practice. It is a temporary intervention. I did the looking for about two months and that was it. Others may continue until they have specific confirmation that it has done the job.


So what is the purpose in your estimation? Where did I say it was a practice? What happened after you looked for 2 months? What confirmation? Why are you being so obscure here Kr? Are you aiming to clarify or puzzle?
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:05 pm

So what is the purpose in your estimation? Where did I say it was a practice? What happened after you looked for 2 months? What confirmation? Why are you being so obscure here Kr? Are you aiming to clarify or puzzle?


Hehe, take it easy, I am not trying to correct you. I thought you were doing the looking and describing your experience of it. I must have been mistaken.

To your questions: The purpose of the looking is that it interrupts the delusion of fear. I was just pointing out that whereas some people do use it as a practice or relief as you described,, the purpose is intervention. After two months of looking I went through a year of unpleasant recovery. Confirmation came in many ways, including increasing satisfaction of human life, deep gratitude for being, the going away of resistance and mental conflict. There was no intention of being obscure.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby tod » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:59 pm

karmarider wrote:To your questions: The purpose of the looking is that it interrupts the delusion of fear. I was just pointing out that whereas some people do use it as a practice or relief as you described,, the purpose is intervention. After two months of looking I went through a year of unpleasant recovery. Confirmation came in many ways, including increasing satisfaction of human life, deep gratitude for being, the going away of resistance and mental conflict. There was no intention of being obscure.


Thanks for the clarification Kr. May I point out that just because my 'recovery' is a relief rather than unpleasant does not mean that the results are any different.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:26 am

Thanks for the clarification Kr. May I point out that just because my 'recovery' is a relief rather than unpleasant does not mean that the results are any different.


There was no implication otherwise. Anyway as I said this was my mistake. I thpught you were talking about the looking inquiry and recovery, but I think we are talking about different things. My apologies.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby tod » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:42 am

karmarider wrote:
Thanks for the clarification Kr. May I point out that just because my 'recovery' is a relief rather than unpleasant does not mean that the results are any different.


There was no implication otherwise. Anyway as I said this was my mistake. I thpught you were talking about the looking inquiry and recovery, but I think we are talking about different things. My apologies.


I do not think we are talking about different things Kr, only giving the same thing, ie looking, a different emphasis. As seen here, you appear to see looking as an interruption to the delusion of fear, which to me seems to overly focus on the fear. I, on the other hand, have not been focusing on any fear/anxiety, but on the sheerness of the relief.

I understand how 'looking' may be formulated as the looking inquiry and recovery from fear/anxiety or as the looking allowing and assimilation of sheer relief.

Thank you for your thoughts.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby karmarider » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:26 pm

tod wrote:I do not think we are talking about different things Kr, only giving the same thing, ie looking, a different emphasis.


We are talking about 2 different things. The looking has no emphasis. However if you think we are talking about the same thing I encourage you to go to Sherman's forum to discuss it with others as I think pepple will be intetested in your interpretation and description.
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Re: Back from the rabbithole and "I" am shocked.

Postby tod » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:12 pm

karmarider wrote:We are talking about 2 different things.


We aren't talking about things here really are we. We are making formulations about one 'thing'. And your current formulation/perspective appears to be one determined to focus on difference rather than similarity. Are you interested in uniting perspectives or just reasserting your own?

The looking has no emphasis. However if you think we are talking about the same thing I encourage you to go to Sherman's forum to discuss it with others as I think pepple will be intetested in your interpretation and description.


Yes, the looking has no emphasis, it is only the formulation of the looking that may have a different emphasis, as mentioned in my previous post.

Thanks for the encouragement, I will consider it.
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