Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

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Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby danyc » Sat May 18, 2013 3:34 am

Not that I'm blaming him for anything, definitely not.

I'm in a long-term relationship, like life-long as far as I see it...and I am with a girl who is very talented, smart, etc, but she also unfortunately has problems with anxiety and a phobia very close to claustrophobia (though its not exactly the same). I just started reading and listening to tolle's material a few months ago, but it's already changed the way I see pretty much everything in my life, including my relationship. Now I can recognize my negative thoughts and frustrations and I'm practicing being present when I'm with her.

Now, the problem comes in because I've never been a very emotional person, never too heavily tied up in my emotions, but in my thoughts, yes. And now because of trying to be present, I seem kind of dead-pan a lot, and especially when we just recently had a sort-of argument (I say sort of because she was sad and mad at me, but I was not really in the argument. I was, more so than I ever have been because I was practicing presence, but I seemed to her that I wasn't, because I did not react like I should have, which would be with negativity or tears or other things that would indicate that I cared). So it seemed a bit like I didn't care.

I would just tell her why I'm being this way, but I really can't because of some of her anxieties. She has really big issue with self-help material...its kind of a big road-block to any sort of recovery on her end because she can't really even interact with that kind of material because of the thoughts it immediately birngs up in her. It's like a roadblock before we even start to drive. Can't even turn the engine on : ( I mean, I've told her about what I've been doing, how it's really changed me, and she's watched some of the videos I've shared on Facebook and such, but she's told me straight up many times, self-help material really gives her problems.

It makes me feel terrible because I really care about her and seeing her in pain, physically and emotionally, all the time, is heart-breaking. Her thoughts cause body pains, the body pains cause thoughts (medical anxieties). So the cycle is bad.

And then I notice what Tolle says about relationships anyway, which is, acceptance. I should accept her as she is. But is this the same thing? I need some clarification. She's in pain, and I know that if she lets this pain continue, it will severely hamper her continuing on, personally, professionally, etc.

Thanks for any insights...I really appreciate it.
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby rideforever » Sat May 18, 2013 7:54 am

Maybe you don't care.

The way you introduce your relationship is interesting. You don't mention love.

You say she is this, she is that. You say the relationship is this, the relationship is that.

But no love ?

And now you are stone faced.

What kind of idea do you have of a relationship ? That it's a business deal between 2 stone-faced partners ?

Why aren't you emotional ? Are you scared of it ?

Excuse me for saying so, but perhaps you can have a greater idea of presence then turning into a walking corpse. It's not suppose to be a way to stop your heart beating !!!

When you wake up in the morning I suggest that you let your heart fill you with life and magic and stop thinking about what presence is supposed to be.

Just love, shine, dance ...

Then see what your girlfriend thinks about that !

Then practice presence on the way to the florist and come back with so many flowers that you can hardly walk.

And take on the responsibilities of love.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby treasuretheday » Sat May 18, 2013 12:56 pm

You mention acceptance, Danyc. Yes, when we are in a very difficult situation, & we resist & reject it, we get stuck. As soon as we accept what we are experiencing, we are able to move to the next step. As we refuse to accept a situation, we wear ourselves out! (Believe me, I've been there, done that!) If we find we are trying to accept a situation, but we are not moving forward, it is because we have adjusted or adapted to the situation. Adjustment & adaptation are forms of sacrifice that lead us to feel we have "lost." Acceptance moves us forward. Today, try using acceptance in any situation you encounter. Be willing to accept any difficult situation you are in, & feel yourself moving through it. Do not compromise, communicate. Do not adjust, resolve. Do not resist, accept.

Also, it is very common for relationships to develop a "chronic problem" that becomes a catchall for all the misunderstandings, grievances, & missed connections. Anything that needs to be taken care of will show up in the chronic problem. It could be communication, money, sex, health problems. It could be anything. And, it is this aspect that promotes the greatest growth for our relationships, for ourselves & our partner. This is the "closet" where all the unfinished business is stored. As we connect to our partner, we will find this area improves.

Don't despair. You realize what the chronic problem is. Use that awareness. Imagine it standing bewtween you & your lady. Imagine a beam of light & love passing through that "problem," connecting between your heart & her heart. This beam of light then links you, draws you closer together. Hold each other, & continue to imagine beams of loving light shining between you, connecting you further. From this place answers will come. Feel you & your partner melting into each other, & know that what will emerge from this is the next step.
Life itself is the proper binge.
-Julia Child
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby SandyJoy » Sat May 18, 2013 11:27 pm

Yes, Ride and Treasure are pointing to the same thing, in different words. But Yes, it is all about feeling, sensing, touching, being Alive and In Love with the one your with.

Yes, to Live and Love and feel and soak in the juices of Every bit of this Magical Mystery of Existence.

Passion, Life is Passion. Everything that exists, comes from out of Passion, great Loving Passion for Life.

Life is all The Senses Alive and Awake and Feeling It All; Wide Open and In Love with Life; Be the Whole Being, Here and Now is Always felt and known through touch, taste, sight, sound and smell, and even more senses than we are even aware of ---Every Sense is our Experience of Life, is our way to BE Here Now, through the senses. You cannot ever smell something yesterday, you cannot see something ten minutes ago, you can only sense right Now, right Now. The Senses cannot be experienced any other time but Now. Notice that you cannot ever be without your senses, your touch, your taste, your seeing---you feel the computer and the keys and the cool air blowing through the open doors and the sounds.

One of my fondest memories of my childhood was when my mother would would sit with me on the porch swing in the dusk of a summer evening. And she would tell me to listen, to listen and try to count all the sounds I could hear. Oh, yes, I would get so highly tuned in to search the evening with with my ears like radar scanning the world around us. I would get so quiet, so still; the sound of the little squeak of the swing, my breath, the buzz of little bug, a car goes by, a car door closes, a hawk over head calls out, the crickets begin to chirp, a frog croaks from somewhere the green garden leaves, a screen door slams, a voice in the distance chatters to someone, the t.v.'s muffled sounds coming from inside the house, the rattle of pots and pans as dinner being made, the leaves rustle, as the breeze blows softly and the cat on my lap purrs happily content with the gentle silence ---and if I tune my ears to very far away I can even hear the sound of ocean waves breaking on the shore.

What a wonderful game that was. What a blessing to have such a mother in my Life. She taught me so very much. Be open and Tune in. Things about the Sweet Mystery of Love and Life are really all experienced through the senses, via this Holy Communion with Life we Live.

They say we have five senses; hearing, touch, taste, smell, sight---but if you really open yourself, there are more than that--there is the synergy of them all and more, and greater. It's all about the senses, sensations, feeling It, feeling the Living, deeply profound and deeply embracing Us.


Passion, Life is about Passion. To feel with all your senses tuned in to Here and Now. Our senses do not know time. Our thoughts think they do, but those thoughts can only be thought right now--never are we NOT Now--even if we think we are not, we think it Now. You only know you exist via your senses, so turn them up, rev them up, open them up so that all your senses are awake and live fully engaged with this Magical Passion of Life and You are the Living One In Love with all those you Love.

Be Alive! Be Feeling It All and open your senses to the more and more of this Infinite, Splendid Wonder.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby ConsciousStudent » Wed May 29, 2013 10:19 pm

This is a very interesting topic and you got some really good advice.
If I could offer anything it would be this,
Since your girlfriend has an issue with "Self-help" topics you may run into a obstacle where you continue to grow in consciousness and she may not.
This wil cause a problem in your relationship as you both begin to move into 2 different spiritual paths.
I experienced this in my own marriage, my wife has a very dense pain body and as I began to disassociate with my pain body she developed a disconnect to me. Because of this change in spiritual growth she is in the process of becoming my ex-wife. There were obviously other problems as well and I believe my suffering during that process has brought me to Eckart's teachings. So when you study these principals you learn that any suffering does have an equal growth path into enlightenment.
Similar to Jesus's suffering on the cross brought him divinity.
I can relate to your obstacle as many of us can. What worked for me was surrendering and acceptance, I accepted her just as she is and I did not try to change her at all. I did offer to share the material and study with her but as you mentioned with your girlfriend my wife was not receptive. Change is a scary thing to most people and therefore they suffer trying to stay where they are instead of embracing change (Impermanence).
This too shall pass and and allowing change to happen helped tremendously as well.
Eckart says When a relationship hits a crisis the relationship either has to deepen or dissolve.
if your relationship isn't deepening or growing it is dissolving or dying. It may be time to see it for what it is and not what you want it to be. True love has no wanting, if it does its Ego love and not true love.
I wish you the best, and I know whatever happens you will eventually see it as a chance to awaken more deeply as I did.
Looking back on it now, i wouldn't change the dissolution of my marriage, it forced me to awaken.
I am grateful
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby Dimo » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:08 pm

danyc wrote:I was, more so than I ever have been because I was practicing presence, but I seemed to her that I wasn't


Were you present or were you practicing indifference?

danyc wrote:because I did not react like I should have, which would be with negativity or tears or other things that would indicate that I cared


An indicator of your interest in the situation might be your welcome to her anxiety. When the negative emotion are accepted (by herself or by another person) these emotions start to disappear.

danyc wrote:She's in pain, and I know that if she lets this pain continue, it will severely hamper her continuing on, personally, professionally, etc.


You think that you're ok and she's in pain. But actually, you're worried and you're not present to that. You're not present to your emotions towards your situation.
When you're present you love all people. Love is not a serious thing. When you're serious you're worried about people's story and you're not loving. And when you're worried you cause more and more pain in the planet especially in people around you.
Read the ET's behavior towards the woman's situation who ring his doorbell in the night because she has a problem with her house. ET did and said nothing and she suddenly became quiet. This history is told in the book "A new earth".
First of all, the situation requires presence and once you do this, once you are present, you know consequently what action the situation requires.

I think that you are so worried about her situation that you don't want to see your worries about your situation towards her situation :D.
Be present to your worries about that and you'll know what you have to do.
Any our advice will be not so efficient as your choice afterward your have practiced consciousness about the situation.
If you are present you'll know what you have to do. When you are not present you go from a possibility to another, in an uncertain way.
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby coriolis » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:34 pm

The human mind craves drama and is addicted to it.
Much of what the human mind craves and calls "love" is nothing but a convoluted drama that constantly destroys what it says it wants and rejects what it says it truly desires.

I was once in a relationship where the partner likewise claimed I did not love them when I started watching what arose in the mind/body and letting it be without spinning it into a drama to act out in the world.
I was there for them, quiet and calm, but they wanted jealousy, anger, tears, and protest as "proof" that I loved them.
They didn't get what they wanted and I was relieved by the sense of outward peace that complemented my inner state when the relationship ended and they moved on.
It is nice sometimes when the surface of the water is as still as the inner depths.
It is better still to know that however turbulent the surface of life gets the inner depths remain completely unperturbed and present.

Watch your thoughts.

But do not let them define you.

Deny none of your feelings.

But do not become them either.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby matt74ike » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:25 am

On the beginning of spiritual path it's very easy to catch a little disease called "Mr Spiritual" :) I had the one once. I thought that after the first reading of TPON and watching a couple of videos on YouTube I got it, that it's very easy, and that everyone I know should do the same. I thought TPON is the Holy Grail and a panacea for every problem and for everyone. I was walking slower, I was calm, and was looking at everything from a distance... but the truth is I was just separating myself from everyone, from life.
Don't worry, It will pass. There will be many AHA moments on your spiritual path, many ups but many downs too. Spiritual path isn't always upward, it's rather sine wave...
Matt
We know about ourselves
only what we've been tested
[Wislawa Szymborska, poet]
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby Lee28 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:05 pm

Danyc. This is a great opportunity for you to work with yourself. To practice presence. To just be.

Your partners problems are not yours. It is not that you shouldn't care or want to help her but if she is not ready to follow the path you have begun there is nothing that can be done. Except as you say to find acceptance.

Do not feel that you are being cold by not becoming upset, you do not have to purchase the emotions, the thoughts that she does. Just listen, and be compassionate.

There are many outcomes that may arise from acceptance and I do not wish to invite you down any certain path for this must be of your own choosing.

As you have said, be present when she is telling you about her problems and be the space for all that to happen. Notice what emotions are arising in you, this is your work, to work with yourself.

Feel the inner body, become so attentive in the present moment as you listen to her. Thoughts may arise, but do not touch them, only touch that which is always there, always constant.

Be the space. Listen.

From the peace within, the silent one, share this unconditional love and know this that it will touch her on some deeper level.

Words may come in time at the appropriate moment or they may not and if that is the case from the great silence within just be. Pure consciousness, without any hang ups, without any arising of ones pain body. This is the greatest love that you can offer somebody. To be free of all suffering yourself, to be able to soak up the pain she offers you and in return give her only love.

I think you stated that you cannot tell her that this is your way of being. Is that right? It would be easier to tell her the truth and do not be afraid that she won't understand or take it too well.

Maybe this is not her time, she may not be ready but that is for you not to judge or to know.

Relationships as such are a tool to be used to remain in truth. That truth is love. And it is this love that you share.

But always, always work with yourself. This is all you need do. For you cannot put anyone’s house is order no matter how much you care and love them.

This is not for you to decide but that of the hidden hand of grace. Give to her your freedom, nothing else matters. She will either find the light of this freedom herself or reject that which you give and point to so freely.

Whatever the outcome, let your freedom remain and share your love, your presence.

Not just with her but with all who fall upon your path.

This is your purpose and also your gift to yourself.
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby Novice2theNOW » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:45 am

"This too shall pass and and allowing change to happen helped tremendously as well.
Eckhart says When a relationship hits a crisis the relationship either has to deepen or dissolve.
if your relationship isn't deepening or growing it is dissolving or dying. It may be time to see it for what it is and not what you want it to be. True love has no wanting, if it does its Ego love and not true love."


So very true..

It is especially difficult for mothers of young children. Even more so of young mothers with young children. Needless to say it was quite an eventful period. :D

Currently, I am in a 7 yr relationship with the father of my youngest son ( I also have an 11 yr old son and a 9 yr old daughter from a previous relationship).

Our situation is very similar to yours, whereas I have a constant rush of feelings ( practicing the process and release of emotions built up throughout the day) , awareness ( tapping in to what is and letting it happen with no resistance, stillness (I am struggling a bit with this one, slipping away from the children for at least 15 min. a day with my headphones and meditation music/videos on Youtube.)

My fiance on the other hand, lives and breathes his pain-body. He IS his pain-body. At least, that is how I am "identifying" him or labeling him. Our issues, in a nut-shell are currently due to my lack of calmness.. He feels as though I don't care about him or our relationship because I refuse to argue. Just today I was sharing with him the very basic philosophy I follow, which is, to let go of the anger, worry, sorrows, etc.. That there is realistically no immediate risk to him in this moment.

Today he seemed to be listening, but the problem truly ensues when I find myself questioning whether or not we can grow together spiritually.

I guess my questions summed up would be more of a request of any suggestions on how to remain aware when there is constant negative energy (yelling, fighting, bad language, etc.) surrounding you in your home life? As of last month, I am a stay-at-home mom. I'm sure the break from school for the summer adds to the stress, but I want to enjoy every moment with my family. I want us all to help people in need and see beautiful natural sights.. Surely, I can go about my life and be a hospitable citizen. Or glance out of my kitchen window to appreciate the stillness and knowledge of my neighbors trees.

Any suggestions, opinions, even thoughts & questions are welcome..
"Be the silent watcher of your thoughts and behavior. You are beneath the thinker. You are the stillness beneath the mental noise. You are the love and joy beneath the pain" Eckhart Tolle
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby Sighclone » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:01 pm

Egoic dysfunction, i.e. really serious problems of personality, behavior, paranoia, neuroses, and other clinical disorders are very real, even if solely contained in ego. Ego is only a "false self" when there is another Self to supplant it. Until that Self is fully and clearly glimpsed or perhaps realized, the egoic self is the only basis for identity and therefore personal reality. Clinical disorders alone can disable, hijack or co-opt awakening completely, and need to be addressed first, hopefully by a therapist who is familiar with nonduality. I recommend contacting members of the Nondual Wisdom and Psychotherapy Institute: http://www.wisdompsy.com/ . I know some of these therapists, and others who use nonduality in their practice. PM me if you would like a larger list.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby azurewalking » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:14 pm

Tolle discusses the importance of letting go of your story, as clinging to it indicates attachment to the past. This is true relative to our relationships with others- in order to enter the state of acceptance with another, we need to release our attachment to another's story. Their own attachments, ultimately, are theirs (thus the conflict in trying to help, right?), though we can certainly bring a high degree of awareness and presence to the situation (which can help guide us along the path with them). I realized my presence in any given relationship is parallel to how much "old stuff" -from either their story, our story, my story- I mentally bring to the interaction. As others have mentioned, you have the awareness, and that is the first step (and a huge step it is). And there are resources, as Sighclone as suggested, that are available and can be effective in addressing clinical issues she may have. All good steps to take. Along this way, remember that Tolle does cautions us of creating identities dependent on others (he refers to it as roleplaying). As a daughter of an alcoholic single father, I sure have empathy for roleplaying rescuer and caregiver, so I mention this because I know how easy it can be to slip into into taking on such an identity. The more you align yourself with an identity relative to "helping" her, the more apt you are to feeling frustrated, worried, guilty, etc., all of which prevent you from giving the situation what it calls for, presence.
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Re: Communication problem in relationship because of Tolle

Postby Novice2theNOW » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:58 pm

coriolis wrote: It is nice sometimes when the surface of the water is as still as the inner depths.
It is better still to know that however turbulent the surface of life gets the inner depths remain completely unperturbed and present.

Watch your thoughts.

But do not let them define you.

Deny none of your feelings.

But do not become them either.



:)
"Be the silent watcher of your thoughts and behavior. You are beneath the thinker. You are the stillness beneath the mental noise. You are the love and joy beneath the pain" Eckhart Tolle
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