Deja vu?

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.

Deja vu?

Postby sloth » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:16 pm

About a year and a half ago I had an awful experience of extreme paranoia and confusion it was like I was experiencing 'the worst moment of my life', some sort of existential crisis where I found out something horrific that explains everything, the existence of the universe, everything, I don't know what it was. At the time I had smoked a full joint of (very strong) weed to help me relax and fall asleep because I had woken up in the middle of the night by loud TV from upstairs and I had an exam the next day but I was also taking 'an opportunity' to explore myself spiritually and find out what this Oneness with the universe it is that Eckhart Tolle is talking about. Then I was wondering about the nature of suffering (as opposed to pain) and the nature of happiness (as opposed to pleasure) and whether the universe is in a constant state of flux between the two, whether as individual forms of life and whether as the universe in it's totality (can there be a 'totality' if the universe is constantly expanding?) can ever be in a state of continual peace and whether it was worth experiencing the 'highs' if you have to experience the 'lows'. If I hadn't been thinking all of this mundane, pseudo-intellectual philosophy then probably nothing would have happened, so I suppose I was responsible for what happened next, but sometimes it is like I can't stop my mind from going into all of this 'deep' stuff, it just has a thirst for it and normal thoughts start turning into thoughts about how I can live a deep meaningful existence, how I can turn things around, how I can do this or that, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, I thought that the 'highs' of life can easily become 'lows' because when the mind is ecstatic, it can easily become over-active, worked up, agitated and then erratic (manic and destructive 'highs'). Conversely, when you feel calm and tranquil you can quickly become bored, or feel like you are in some sort of state of decay (the lows, the slumps - depression). And then there was just this horrible voice in my head, but it was really, really, clear, like no other thought I've ever had, almost as if someone was whispering into my ear. The sound of it just seemed to resonate everywhere and it said something like, 'this is your life happening all over again', or, 'everything happens again', or, 'this is the worst moment of my life'. I have no idea what the hell it was. Perhaps the best way to explain it would be like at the end of time there is another big bang and the same universe is relived, everybody relives the same life and somewhere deep inside they just know that it's the same life being experienced again and that they will have to go through all the same woes, misery and suffering (although I suppose it means they will get to experience all the same joys again). It was also like the whole thing was a huge cosmic joke, divine irony being played at my and everyone else's expense. I just remember that it lasted maybe half a minute and it didn't end until I said, 'no, no, no, no! This is not happening' and then I was sort of zoned back into reality. Weird, and incredibly frightening.

Anyway, I did not believe that this was just a bad trip because you can't have a bad trip on weed, it is only stronger psychedelics like mushrooms and acid, right? Or wrong, maybe, I don't know. I do know that experience LSD trippers get really macho if you start talking about 'bad trips' - you don't know what a trip is, you can't trip on weed, etc. This is what my dad was like, anyway. My friends, when I told them about it just thought it was funny or something and didn't believe there was such a place (well, I mean, I am not sure there is such a place either). I have felt unease about this ever since, I have taken weed again in smaller doses, at times I swear I was on the verge of going back to that place but I could never allowed that to happen again. I googled things like 'bad meditation experiences', 'end of the universe', 'existential crisis', 'deja vu', etc. I found a few things, but hardly any of them matched my experience. I remember reading an article about Vipissana meditation and how people who are just looking for a stress relief should be careful because the object of meditation is to develop a spiritual awareness, not just to feel more calm. The author then went on to explain how she was in a meditation retreat, and one morning she had a cup of tea and breakfast with a man who seemed perfectly fine and happy and then he just suddenly jumped off a cliff and killed himself, like he had had some sort of bad experience meditating or something. This wasn't proof enough for me though because it's incredibly difficult to know someone else's mental state, that man could have been depressed anyway, or had a history of mental illness or something. And anyway, even if he did have a bad meditation experience, what's to say he saw the same things I did, we don't know because he never gave an account of them.

I also remember that there was a sort of clarity at the end of it when I knew I had the power to overcome that experience, perhaps it was a glimpse into what it is like to be truly conscious. But it hardly resolved the deeper, spiritual issues that I had encountered from this experience and the temporary relief was incredibly mundane compared to the hell and agony I had gone through for that brief but intense period of time. Anyway, I know that people on LSD get horrific trips sometimes so I decided to Google it, and I found some things similar to what I experienced, but because they are on drugs, it's not as reliable as an experience that could be reported from a state of sobriety, in my opinion. Even then you'd have to wonder if someone was schizophrenic or something. But I found these experiences that correlate to mine, just from googling, 'lsd bad trips':

I had a very strange and bad trip on acid last night and ended up in hospital . I've done a large dose of acid before last year and was completely fine, but this time something went wrong... After I took the acid, I went home to get some things from my house, and just starting having some bad thoughts.. I thought I better lie down for a bit which turned out to be a big mistake, because I think I somehow fell asleep and my memory of everything after that isn't clear. I just remember that I was worried about dying, and that I wanted an amblulance, and then I thought I had died and gone into some strange new world which I was in the middle of and time kept repeating itself. It's very hard to explain because I don't remember it much, but I seemed to think I'd figured out the meaning of time or something. But anyway it turned out that my Mum found me and I told her I wanted an ambluance (which I have no memory of at all), so I woke up in hospital very confused.


http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36448

Then later in the same thread, other people share their own experiences:

The same thing happend to me on Friday night. I thought I had died and went to hell. I kept trying to convince myself I was still alive and so was the one other person I was with, but it didn't seem to work. After an hour or two I started to believe that I was alive and then not 10 minutes later I was still unable to believe that I wasn't dead. I had deja vu a lot also. So from the beginning. I was on pills and then after they took affect I went to smoke a couple bowls of weed. At first I started thinking that I was in afterlife. Which after life was, you live your life and once you die, you replay your life until you are dead again and repeat that for all of eternity. And I was at the beginning again but I was still my age and it was the same year. Then I began to believe that I had died in my friends basement so that is where I was going to be for the rest of eternity and it was hell and my friend was the devil. The next morning I was still having thoughts about if I was alive or not. Now two days later I'm still very shooken up but I've come to realize I'm alive.


Somebody also defines what is meant by 'bad trip':

A bad trip on a psychedelic drug is very specific, and deals with loss of knowledge that one is under the influence, with two consequences. Either the person believes he is close to death, and the added anxiety and fear/paranoia from the drug makes them completely irrational and out of control, or more often, the person believes that they will remain in their present state, which is very undesirable, for the rest of their life, and they become completely obsessed with the notion that they have ruined their personality, their thoughts dominated by notions that they are emotionally and perceptionally damaged beyond repair.


Which is so close to what happened to me, and I believed I was dying but in a different sense to physical death, more a kind of death of the ego kind of thing but I didn't have the mindfulness to realise that I wasn't the ego that was dying, so I didn't have the clarity needed to get through the situation.

Someone else posts there experience as well:

...I really thought that :hell: was dying, staying in this state for eternity(or some amount of time), and then reliving the same life that you had, but somehow knowing how useless it is the whole time.. not being able to change anything... not knowing that you're dead until the end... but you just know somehow...like when I looked into his face (and his face was quite devilish, really) I had deja vu, like I HAD done this life many times and this was the part where I die and confront the devil and we somehow have this conversation about my life but he already knows everything.. and is grinning the whole time... and this thought in the back of my mind says (Do you get it? This is the part where you die, you don't have a choice, and you have to relive all that pain all over again, but this part is the worst... when you realize that you're dead and are not going to be able to do anything again.... (writing about this is choking me up... my heart's racing... this is seriously one of the worst experiences you can have) it also seemed like "The devil was making me forget for a second, but then I would remember.. and that feeling would sweep all over me again"... it was horrible"


This is [i]really scary:

An undefined amount of time later my girlfreind looked up at some stains on the roof and mentioned how one looked like snoopy...

My heart started racing as I watched myself look up at the stains and found the one that looked like snoopy

Words cannot describe how unpleasantly strong this deja-vu was, I instantly said "woah.. deja-vu"
But, as I uttered those words so did one of my freinds.

We just looked at each other completley dumbfounded
I cannot stress enough how much that moment happened twice, I'm just happy someone else noticed.


Anyway, it just seems like a really odd coincidence that other people would have had experiences that were more or less identical to my own. If it was the kind of experience where you think monsters are climbing out the walls, or some other kind of visual or auditory hallucination, I'd just think it was a load of nonsense. But this was a very realistic phenomena, like all my questions about reality and existence had been answered and, 'it ain't pretty', and not just that, but it's like a result in an experiment that has been successfully replicated, judging by all these other experiences people have said they've had.
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Re: Deja vu?

Postby tod » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:06 am

sloth wrote:Perhaps you could post in that other thread? I don't intend to derail the topic...


Ok.

Tod wrote in the other thread:
You asked "Is reality a cycle in mind or does it happen independently of mind?"

And I am saying that it is a cycle in mind and is not independent of mind.

I know what I have said may well look fantastic, but it only looks that way from a certain point of view.


Sloth replied in part:
The problem is not the cycle itself but when consciousness is drawn into the illusion of the cycle. And this seems to happen within the cycle itself: the universe repeats itself and one more time, consciousness will be drawn into the illusion in the form of idiotic earth dwellers who blow each other up or some alien planet that does the exact same thing.


Well, as seen here, consciouness has not really been drawn into the illusion, as, as you say, this only seems to happen within the cycle. Earth dwellers appear generally to not have realised the great power that is at hand - that the Earth experience is a thought created one that can be changed or greatly amended via thought.

-----

Generally, what you appear to be relating in your above post are experiences of people that have an experience of cycling as what they imagine they are at the time of the cycling experience; and thus they are not realising that what they are experiencing is the experience of an imaginary fixed entity that is unable to 'evolve', or 'see more clearly' - which is possible.

In fact the person can only apparently see more clearly, or evolve. One way of putting it, is that it is increasingly realised, perhaps through multiple insights, that what the apparent person is experiencing is experience as a thought-to-be self in a thought-to-be realm.

I also remember that there was a sort of clarity at the end of it when I knew I had the power to overcome that experience, perhaps it was a glimpse into what it is like to be truly conscious.


It sounds like that was the case.
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Re: Deja vu?

Postby sloth » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:26 pm

tod wrote:Well, as seen here, consciouness has not really been drawn into the illusion, as, as you say, this only seems to happen within the cycle.


How do you know that consciousness is not drawn into the illusion? If it was not ever drawn into the illusion how is it people do not seem to be aware of the fact they are not living in the illusion? Surely they would constantly be conscious of the fact that the ego and their perceived version of reality is illusory?

Earth dwellers appear generally to not have realised the great power that is at hand - that the Earth experience is a thought created one that can be changed or greatly amended via thought.


The outside world of concrete reality or the inside world of thought/emotions/sensations? It seems only aspects of the concrete reality can be changed through active manipulation. Even the thought cycles that are generated by the ego (whatever it actually is) is not always under our control, it seems.

Generally, what you appear to be relating in your above post are experiences of people that have an experience of cycling as what they imagine they are at the time of the cycling experience; and thus they are not realising that what they are experiencing is the experience of an imaginary fixed entity that is unable to 'evolve', or 'see more clearly' - which is possible.


I was merely observing that my own experience could be judged with stronger empiricism given the replication of those results. The methodological problem with these instances, of course is the nature in which that insight has been acquired (involving drug use). But it is an extremely powerful insight nonetheless that seems to explain the very manner in which the material world has manifested and the true nature of time and space. But the very information that explains these phenomena is totally incommunable even though I remember feeling an incredibly strong desire at the time to be able to coherently communicate that information (and being unable to do so during and after the experience, and my knowledge of the experience diminished afterwards). It is why it is so believable unlike the kind of trip where you think you are seeing fairies.

[quote]In fact the person can only apparently see more clearly, or evolve. One way of putting it, is that it is increasingly realised, perhaps through multiple insights, that what the apparent person is experiencing is experience as a thought-to-be self in a thought-to-be realm.[quote]

Yes that is possible. Are you aware of whether any such insights have ever been generated from forms of meditation or whether they are part of the final path to attaining true ‘enlightenment’ (i.e. whether Buddhist monks or gurus attained this insight before they were finally able to disintegrate the ego and become fully conscious)?
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Re: Deja vu?

Postby tod » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:27 pm

sloth wrote:
tod wrote:Well, as seen here, consciouness has not really been drawn into the illusion, as, as you say, this only seems to happen within the cycle.


How do you know that consciousness is not drawn into the illusion?


Through the times when I am not unconsciously drawn into the illusion.

If it was not ever drawn into the illusion how is it people do not seem to be aware of the fact they are not living in the illusion?


Thinking you are aware is being unaware. Going into a thought-to-be-world (illusion) unconsciously is not awareness.

Surely they would constantly be conscious of the fact that the ego and their perceived version of reality is illusory?


If you go into thought (an illusion) consciously, then you remain conscious.

Tod said: Earth dwellers appear generally to not have realised the great power that is at hand - that the Earth experience is a thought created one that can be changed or greatly amended via thought.

Sloth said: The outside world of concrete reality or the inside world of thought/emotions/sensations?


The whole universe is in mind. Splitting mind into inside and outside and then jumping into the inside is going unconscious (in the way ET uses this word).

Tod said: In fact the person can only apparently see more clearly, or evolve. One way of putting it, is that it is increasingly realised, perhaps through multiple insights, that what the apparent person is experiencing is experience as a thought-to-be self in a thought-to-be realm.

Sloth said: Yes that is possible. Are you aware of whether any such insights have ever been generated from forms of meditation or whether they are part of the final path to attaining true ‘enlightenment’ (i.e. whether Buddhist monks or gurus attained this insight before they were finally able to disintegrate the ego and become fully conscious)?


No sorry I am not aware of this. I was relating my experience.
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