I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

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I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby Clouded » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:52 am

I have a tragic memory to share with you. It happened the summer of 2 years ago and has left a mark inside me and now I understand why it had such a powerful effect on me.

I was on a trip with my parents and long distance cousin and we were eating outside a restaurant and I decided to share my food with seagulls. I enjoyed feeding the seagulls much more than eating, the food wasn't even that good. More and more seagulls came to see me and small children came to play with the seagulls. The seagulls were happy because they were fed, the children were happy because there were seagulls to run after and I was happy because I was witnessing an amazing show and I was having FUN. It was the most fun I've had that day, I was happy doing this. After I was done, I went back to my seat and then an angry father came at me and angrily told me to "stop feeding the seagulls, can't you see that they are trying to steal our food, now my family can't eat in peace because of you" then he left and I started crying like a baby. Everyone was having a great time except for the adults, who probably cursed at me in their minds for ruining their quiet picnic. So much for not caring about what other people think; I was being selfish and disrespectful towards others, never mind how happy I was feeling inside. My parents didn't say anything, they were looking down, probably ashamed of me because I was not acting my age and they were embarrassed to be seen with me. And you know what's funny, after his family was done with eating, he let HIS children feed the seagulls. So NOW it was okay, what a hypocrite.

Lesson learned: in this world, you are allowed to be free as long as it does not bother those around you. Thanks for reading, now if you'll please excuse me, I'll go be a presence alone in my own backward where no one can see me to scold me.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby SandyJoy » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:19 am

Freedom has very little do with ones actions or activity. Freedom and Happiness have nothing to do with what you are doing, or not doing. Freedom and Happiness are a state of being and you can sit and enjoy the seagulls and the company you are with, and the the sky, watching the children feed the seagulls, while you are totally and wholly at peace within your heart. Freedom is the freedom that is real and changeless, it is not unaffected by your activity or non activity. It is not subject to change when you do not get what you wanted. It is not subject to circumstances or where you are or what you are doing, or not doing. Freedom, the real freedom, happens in our heart and spirit and mind and no matter if you are feeding the gulls or not that peace and equanimity is not changed.

Doing what you want is not freedom and has nothing to do with freedom. You have the wrong idea about what freedom is.

Being your self has nothing do with what you do, the actions you take---When you find who you really are---then you realize that you are always yourself, whether you get what you want, or feed the seagulls or not. It makes no difference to you, once you find this one true center of your self. This alone is the Joy. No particular activity or event or situation can change you from being yourself when you find your core, your original soul---You enjoy it all. You love it all, whether you are doing this or that, it makes no difference, the Joy does not leave you, the freedom is always Here.

Nothing going on in this world can alter this immutable Self-Knowing that is the very Life and Being of you.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby Clouded » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:04 am

Then "what is" doing what I want??

So someone who is in a coma is also free?? Someone who is locked in jail is also free?? African slaves back in the day were also free?? :? I don't think they enjoyed being whipped in cotton fields.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby SandyJoy » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:47 pm

You can argue and rebel against this Truth all you like.

Freedom has nothing to with 'enjoying' in the way you are using that term. To Enjoy is to Love What Love Is and to Know What Is Real and what is not. It has nothing to do with egotistical ideas based in shallow enjoyment that comes and goes.

One can very well be filled with Joy despite the physical abuse. A whip cannot hurt or harm anything Real. We are here to learn, each of us, on our journey confirming the Truth of Who We Are Already, being the Child of the Living One, The Light of God's Life that we have always been.

And yes, there are those who can be imprisoned, or have health problems, or be living in countries where they are subservient slaves, and they can still find, know and live free from fear ---They can live as the pure hearted one, and have found the Child above the fray that abides in Peace and Joy--It is about your Heart and Soul and has nothing to do with situations or circumstances.

It is your choice to lift your self up or not. It is possible to live unbeholden to the tangible scene and Be and Live that Peace Divine which is "beyond human understanding".

We are not possessed by time or space. We are the Light of Awareness right now and always. This Light of Life, our Identity is untouched by time and space and matter and things.

There are divine lights of joy and poets of love and saints of generosity, the childlike souls, in innocent and pure in heart who are still shining no matter their lot in life.

It is possible to be free while in prison, while a slave, of course it is , there is no doubt.
Last edited by SandyJoy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby treasuretheday » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:06 pm

Wow, Sandy! Love it. You mean, the 'liberty' to do whatever the heck you please is not actually freedom at all? Maybe Freedom is Being as you are, your True Identity, which is "Peace that passes all understanding," and limitations, restrictions, impositions, and 'obstacles' don't hinder that? Freedom and 'suffering' are not mutually exclusive? Freedom includes everything that is since:
SandyJoy wrote:We are not possessed by time or space
So, I don't have to wait for "what happens" to be "ideal" (in other words, to Go My Way) to taste Freedom? How Liberating!

Calls to mind one of my favorites from St. Paul:

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God.
Life itself is the proper binge.
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby SandyJoy » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:52 pm

treasuretheday wrote:Wow, Sandy! Love it. You mean, the 'liberty' to do whatever the heck you please is not actually freedom at all? Maybe Freedom is Being as you are, your True Identity, which is "Peace that passes all understanding," and limitations, restrictions, impositions, and 'obstacles' don't hinder that? Freedom and 'suffering' are not mutually exclusive?


:lol: You are quite the riot for a sweet little genteel and delicate thing from the South 8)

And this is pure Light, Beauty and Truth in all Its glory:

treasuretheday wrote:For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God.



How blessed we are to have your angelic humor and the divine inspiration of St. Paul that descends upon us here--- Thank you for your Love and Light. :D
Last edited by SandyJoy on Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby Clouded » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:05 pm

I think this is beyond my understanding. It doesn't really make sense to me, maybe it will in another lifetime. :? What I get from that definition of freedom is that freedom is doing absolutely nothing while still being alive and letting others do whatever the heck they want to do to you. So freedom is not choosing or being allowed to do something. So Martin Luther King, Jr. (I saw treasuretheday's quote) fought for nothing important. :?

EDIT: Liberty is not freedom?? Civil and human rights are not freedom? You mean i'm not free as long as I identify with my mind?? I think i'm getting somewhere...
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby SandyJoy » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:14 pm

Clouded wrote:EDIT: Liberty is not freedom?? Civil and human rights are not freedom? You mean i'm not free as long as I identify with my mind?? I think i'm getting somewhere...


Yes, you are getting somewhere. That is right, those laws are laws, and good ones, but they are not true freedom. Those laws did not do much to change the hearts and minds of those who still feel enslaved and those who still feel self-hate. You can have all the laws about freedom you like, but if you have not found the Light of Truth within you---then you have nothing lasting or Real. If you have not found the Truth, found your Dominion and Your True Birthright as the Original Identity---then you are still attached to body, form, matter-time and so a slave to old age, slave to societies every whim and change, a slave to fear and erroneous beliefs and a slave to economics, to status, to conditions, a slave to others in some way or other.

One day you find yourself free because nothing can hurt What is Real, and you are That. Then you find you are capable of giving to your world in ways that might help others to find their Light too-- So they can be free and liberated too. We Stand here upon the Mountain beyond Name, we have nothing to fear in Life, there is nothing that can be hurt or harmed by the passing appearances, the ever changing scene. Your Soul is beyond the changing scene. Life is much deeper and more mystical than any human laws, the Life of you is beyond the reach of matter-space-time.

But, Yes, you are right, when you are free from identifying with who and what you are not, but rather than trying not to identify with something -- I suggest it would do you well and be far better to try identifying with God's Infinite Light that is the very Light of you and dwells in Your Heart right now, right here and always. Identify with the Light, with Good, and Right, and Nobel and Love and Generosity, Courage and Tenderness and whatever things you Know God's Love to be.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby treasuretheday » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:51 pm

Thank you for your encouraging words, Sandy!

Yes, Clouded, I hear you too! And Sandy, WOW!

St. Paul (also) wrote: By dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

The way of the Spirit; the way of true liberty and freedom.
Life itself is the proper binge.
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:53 pm

That is right, those laws are laws, and good ones, but they are not true freedom. Those laws did not do much to change the hearts and minds of those who still feel enslaved and those who still feel self-hate. You can have all the laws about freedom you like, but if you have not found the Light of Truth within you---then you have nothing lasting or Real. If you have not found the Truth, found your Dominion and Your True Birthright as the Original Identity---then you are still attached to body, form, matter-time and so a slave to old age, slave to societies every whim and change, a slave to fear and erroneous beliefs and a slave to economics, to status, to conditions, a slave to others in some way or other.

Bravo Sandy!!

Clouded said: I have a tragic memory to share with you. It happened the summer of 2 years ago and has left a mark inside me and now I understand why it had such a powerful effect on me.

Do you understand why it had such a powerful effect on you Clouded?
Do you understand that you could, if you chose, stayed absolutely present on the level of acceptance, enjoyment, enthusiasm instead of falling into fear & all the assuming that you fell into. Read through it again and see what you thought it meant about you, about your parents, about the man.

Yes he was being cranky and eventually hypercritical although you are likely not privy to the discussions that ensued after his comments to you.
You are not response able for the actions of others.
Nor are you what others think or say of you.
Nor are they what you think or say of them.

If you've read the story about the monk and the pregnant girl in A New Earth, you will learn that you can maintain presence by compassionately acknowledging that which you are not response able for with the 'neutrality' of 'is that so?' that leaves room for other perspectives.

Acknowledging perspective without subscribing to or reacting as if an opinion or judgement is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god - it's a momentary perspective expressed, which as you saw can change.

It is what it is - acceptance.
Is that so? - recognition of perspective without subscribing nor argument - they are sharing their perspective, that's all.

YOU have the power, to have a good day, all day, every day,
unless YOU give it to someone else.


You GAVE your power to that man.
And for two years now you've lamented and believed that he had and still has power over you.

Is that so?

Lesson learned: in this world, you are allowed to be free as long as it does not bother those around you.

Is that so?
Know that you can change your wisdom any time you like as lessons continually unfold. It doesn't make you a hypocrite, it means you are alive and living and growing in wisdom moment by moment by moment :D
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby far_eastofwest » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:20 am

Clouded, I think you are spot on, and yep, you are free to enjoy yourself as long as it doesn't bother others. Good lesson to learn and you are obviously not stupid to pick up on this.
I don't think this is tragic at all, just a good thing to know and to partake in your legal enjoyments in situations or timeframes you can. Like... what is to stop you from going to the beach to feed gulls... or failing that, most places have pigeons...

See.... when it bothers others, some day you may be the 'other'.
The man with his family may have come for lunch to have a 'peaceful meal' and YOU were spoiling what he had planned to enjoy. (though after the encounter with you he may well have learned something from you and decided not to be so anal and the girl who fed gulls had the right idea, the kids may have said 'loosen up dad' and after a bit of reflection decided that, to hell with it, gull feeding was ok).
Earlier this year I went and stayed at a hotel with my daughter (17 at time) and we picked one with the indoor swimming pool, spa, gym and sauna. We had never done this before so were going to make the most of weekend in the city (i had a 2 day seminar).
So around 8pm we (after much searching) we find the pool area, I have my swimsuit, she wished to use the gym equipment. We enter the through the glass doors.... and there is a couple, about my age (50ish), making out in the spa.... no one else there.... as I stood there at the thresh hold they glared at us. My daughter said "lets go", I said, "nah, i will just splash around in the pool which is next to the spa", but daughter said "i feel uncomfortable, they are giving me dirty looks and I don't want to watch old people making out or having sex in a spa". So we left, my daughter quite upset.
I went to the reception, they got the couple on the cctv.... and the security guys had a laugh and said they would send someone up to 'hose the area', lol.

Now.... did my daughter and I 'spoil their enjoyment" they were having their fun but couldn't continue because it 'bothered other people".... did we impinge on their freedom? Did I create a Tragic memory of 'this woman and her daughter stopping them from having happy moments". Now, my daughter, she did not want to go back.... but i convinced her and said "they have a room if they want to make out, its not appropriate public behaviour, and when they are gone we will enjoy ourselves and not let a bad experience spoil our own enjoyment using the facilities for what they are intended.". Rather than this event creating in my daughter "well that ruined my day", all that was 'ruined' was 3 minutes.

So it will always be.... that is NOT a tragedy, its just life. You will be playing your hip hop music loud and someone will complain they are 'trying to sleep". Because when you stop doing something YOU enjoy because it is bothering others.... it is not freedom that is taken.... it is just your 'freedom to enjoy" is taking away their freedom to enjoy and you need to be considerate of others as you will be the Other in some situations.
So a bit of tolerance is called for either way. You find ways to work around it. Don't have sexual activity in public spas.... don't feed seagulls from your table but take the food a bit of a distance away from where others are eating.... put headphones in to listen to your favourite country and western or heavy metal... feed many pigeons but early in the morning. Accept sometimes you will get 'told off' and no one will 'stick up for you'.
You father may like the 'freedom' to hit his spouse and child and finds it relieves stress .... but him enjoying his 'freedom' is taking away the freedom of others (bothering others) to enjoy their lives, thats why some things are just 'social rules' and others have legal laws so people are protected from those who feel it is ok 'to do what they like' regardless of its effect on others.

Rather than the event being one of 'a rude man told me off in public just when I'd found something I was really happy doing"..... focus on "well I found something I really enjoy, relaxing, feeding birds.... i will do this again in future".
There is nothing harder to find than a black cat in a dark room
Especially when there is no cat....
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby SandyJoy » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:45 am

Nice posts Jen and Far-east---We have shared a well rounded and valuable guidance for this young woman.

Soon, Cloudy, you may have to change your name to clearing with intermittent sunshine.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby treasuretheday » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:25 pm

SandyJoy wrote:Nice posts Jen and Far-east---We have shared a well rounded and valuable guidance for this young woman.

I quite agree! Clouded, Even if you don't appreciate or enjoy all the the ideas presented, I hope you enjoy having a nice little circle of support here! It's readily apparent that many here take an interest in your questions, and in you. (You ask really amazing questions! You are a VERY bright young lady!).
SandyJoy wrote:Soon, Cloudy, you may have to change your name to clearing with intermittent sunshine.
I think we should just commence with calling her "Sunny."

Just kidding, Clouded!!!
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby KathleenBrugger » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:55 pm

Sandyjoy's lovely posts made me think of one of my favorite books, "Crime and Punishment." It's a long Russian novel by Dostoevsky, about a young student who is very poor. In desperation he decides to rob an old woman, and ends up killing her. What is fascinating to me is that the student starts being punished for his crime when he first thinks of it. Even though he was "free," that is, not in jail, he was imprisoned by his mind.

He killed the woman, was almost immediately caught and sent to prison. For the first couple of years he continued to rationalize his actions and suffered the torments of his guilty mind. But then one day he had a powerful awakening and in that moment he saw what he had done clearly, without any of his rationalizations. In that moment he was free, even though he had seven years of his sentence left.

Another tale of freedom in captivity is "The Hiding Place," by Corrie ten Boom, a true story about the Holocaust. Corrie was in a concentration camp with her sister, Betsie, who "showed a universal love for everyone--not only for the prisoners, but also for the Nazis. Instead of feeling anger, she pitied the Germans, sorrowful that they were so blinded by hatred. She yearned to show them the love of Christ, but died before the war was over." (wikipedia)

So freedom isn't about being able to do what you want--both these people were imprisoned. It's about the spirit being unbound in love.

I agree with treasuretheday, you ask great questions Clouded!
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Re: I can't be completely free, I need to behave myself

Postby Clouded » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:16 am

Thank you all for your input, yes it makes perfect sense now. I think I always knew the answer, but it took me a while to remember it because I keep forgetting that I'm not my mind and my mind was focused on society's definition of freedom and HOW DARE YOU negate it after all these people have been through. And I DO appreciate every single advice given, just knowing that there are people who are taking time out of their own lives to answer me, a stranger (and I am overwhelmed with the number of replies I'm getting!) and are asking absolutely nothing in return makes me feel that I am genuinely looked out after. Thank you all for following my progression, and I have one more question, it's kinda of a silly one. So as far as I know, there are 2 types of thoughts that affect me: thoughts that make me do and thoughts that make me feel. You say that as long as I feel limited in my own mind, I'll never be free. I know that it was thought that drove me to feed the seagulls, and I know that it was also thought that me react to that man's reaction. Was I ever free in this human life form? If we were completely free, will we even be able to make decisions...or have options??? I think not. It could be something as mundane as choosing pizza over spaghetti to eat for diner, I'm still not free because pizza was already decided for me?

So technically I'll never be completely free as long as I'm in this body, but I can free myself from feeling and that works for me.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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